Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting NATO surplus ammunition

[AMink]

Corrosive ammo isn't bad but you do need to clean your gun asap after shooting it. It's corrosive because it's hygroscopic. It just attracts moisture in the air and can cause rust. If you clean your gun anyway, it doesn't matter. If you don't and shoot corrosive you'll end up with a rusty bore quickly.

 

[GHarman]

Not just hygroscopic! Older ammo was loaded with mercuric primers! BIG Time Barrel and Brass hazard!

If ya reload wash out yer cases with hot soapy water and rinse with clear water,

The mercuric compounds attack the brass!

GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Not just hygroscopic! Older ammo was loaded with mercuric primers! BIG Time Barrel and Brass hazard!
If ya reload wash out yer cases with hot soapy water and rinse with clear water,
The mercuric compounds attack the brass!
GregH

Only 2 weapons that I have use Mil brass for are 223 and a boat load of 45ACP, The 45 was when the Air Force went from 45 to 9mm for the Sky Cops on base. I had to keep my weapons in the base armory went to shoot one time and the Sgt at the armory was grinding up 45ACP rounds in some machine!!!!. There were a bunch of us on base that shot 45's and got permission from Base Commander to shoot it instead of destroying it. We asked if they wanted us to police up the brass and return it they never did give an answer so I policed it anyway and kept grocery bags of 45ACP brass, still have bunches of the stuff that has only been shot once and cleaned and stored that I have never used. The 223 That I have used Mil brass in was a pain in the A** with the primer crimp removal not that big a deal but the brass seemed thick and just another step to reload was the primer crimp removal.

Thank You Uncle Sam :-laf

 

[The patriot]

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25263/catid/8/Super_Swage_600

 

[BIGNASTY]

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25263/catid/8/Super_Swage_600

Will have to remember that when and if I ever use brass with the crimp again. 223 brass was pretty cheap stuff after the Military got resupplied after Viet Nam and before the NEXT conflict so I stocked up on Commercial brass then before the Military took precedence again and it cost more or was in short supply.

Again the Mil 223 brass seemed quite thick, for what I was using it for AT THAT TIME was a Rem Varmint Special in 223 it just didnt seem as accurate as commercial brass I think that it may indeed have been thicker to help go thru FULL AUTO weapons THAT IS JUST SPECULATION on my part but it came all dinged and dented from cycling thru some HIGH SPEED AMMO BURNER.

 

[HHhuntitall]

BIG, shouldn't have been any thicker than commercial. It's just Federal brass, to begin with.



Mercuric primers!! Dirty boogers!! Just soap and water may not always clean it up, either!!! I've got a muzzle break on a "large" bore rifle that just won't quit turning green!!! Finally got some old cleaning solvent from a Moisan-Nagant cleaning kit, and that killed it!! Go figure!! Won't be shooting any more of that old 46-48 ammo in it anymore..... Sold it for a ton more than I had in it, and ended up trading for some 80's surplus ammo... . with no pull marks? Strange, appears to not be demilled, but it shoot pretty straight!! Just have to pull every 5th one and keep for later use when it's not so dry.

 

[rMetzger]

BIG, shouldn't have been any thicker than commercial. It's just Federal brass, to begin with.

So, you would expect, but, milspec details include more brass thickness. They've got the option to use milspec measurements on all their casings, but, do they?

 

[BIGNASTY]

So, you would expect, but, milspec details include more brass thickness. They've got the option to use milspec measurements on all their casings, but, do they?

The reasoning that I have to why the Mil brass was thicker was I filled the Mil brass full with powder and dropped it in a commercial case and had some room for more. NOT VERY NASA LIKE THINKING!!!! but I did it several times to see if it was a fluke and they all had the same amount of room, used ball powder to make sure that it went in smooth

 

[GHarman]

Milspec is not an "option"! That is the minimum acceptable standard! Changes without engineered proofs and approvals become scrap!
The best way to determine if your brass has heavier walls than commercial brass is to deprime and clean it. Then weigh them on a scale.
The heavy brass will have greater wall thickness. But that is only one criteria. How about the hardness of the brass. Soft brass flows and to soft brass separates!
Brass that is hard, springs back, but work hardens quickly! Mil Spec QA/QC brass is designed to function in a wide range of weapons in the Family of each cartridge, in a wide variety of conditions!
Mil-Spec is not junk! Nor is it Bench Rest accuracy grade Ammo. However it does what it is designed to do, with no modification.
I have been using 7. 62 NATO match brass in my . 308 that I have further prepped by reaming primer pockets to consistent shape and depth as well as chamfering flash holes!
Man what a difference in performance!
GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

I really never worried about it being thicker or not cause I dont load to max anyway. Reason of the brass was to have my own (((jieosidf;oiaud, cant say the word some one may get WORRIED about it but have a good bunch of it. Have always thought that the Goobers in office may not get the guns but guns dont work to good with out something to use in them.

 

[rMetzger]

Milspec is not an "option"!

I did not mean to imply that gov't contract milspec ammo manufacturers have the "option" to ignore contract spec on their gov't sales. I DID intend to imply that they'd do one of two things: Either make ALL their casings milspec, and use some for commercial production, and some for non-commercial production, or have two different grades of casings that they keep separate.

 

[GHarman]

Brass is manufactured in lots. I dont know if the same drawing dies are used with Military and commercial brass, of if they require separate tooling.

SAAMI Specs and Mil-Spec are different. QA/QC is unique to each cartridge, from metallurgy to dimensional tolerancing.

As far as specifics, I have never had the opportunity to tour a Cartridge Brass manufacturing facility. However, the best information I could find is in this link about Lake City Plant.

There is a flick imbedded. I dont know if it will answer any questions but it is worth while wading through the propaganda!

GregH



http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/02/lake-city-ammuntion-video-reveals-manufacturing-process/

 

[GHarman]

For further information, I have also found an old link to an advertisement for brass for sale. The link includes a chart of commonly found 5. 56 NATO/. 223 commercial brass with weights of cases and water capacities. This is worth a comparison if you are reloading mixed manufacturers brass.
Hope this is of interest. Yes! We can cry over the price increases!
GregH

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/federal-lake-city-223-brass-on-sale/

 

[HHhuntitall]

Easy guys, I was only implying that Lake City brass is made to the same QUALITY STANDARDS as Federal... . As to the case thickness, typically, the cases vary lot to lot, by material, and by process. Drawn cases tend to be more consistent in thickness, while extruded cases are a bit cheaper to make... . Lupua and Norma are benchrest quality brass, while Lake City and Federal are not necessarily as consistent. Typically, while loading for match shooting, 99 out of 100 Lapua cartridges will be within the 5% wieght criteria I like for accuracy. This helps give me a standard deviation in velocities ranging around 4-10fps..... That really helps reduce vertical stringing, which makes it up to me to get the windage right.



For the 284s I've been using in matches, Winchester brand is the only . 284Win cartridge available... ... . I usually end up with about 40-50% failure to meet wieght each 100rnds of brass... . It's gotten so bad, I weigh it in 3-4 categories, putting the light brass in one box, the heavy in another, and keeping them for later use when I get 100+ rounds to reload..... or maybe for a hunting rifle. Even then, there are a few you'll notice that give you erratic FPS readings, and typically, they'll fail after 3-4 reloads..... The bases are thicker, is my guess, so the thinner walls and neck fail from heat and stress..... that's a guess...



Federal is much better brass, and if you use it for match, you'll find about the same failure rate (wieght wise) as Lake City, which in my experience is around 20%, sometimes a little less. I used the Lake City brass in . 223 shooting a heavy AR "across the course"... . it roughed up my Lapua brass too much, so I started using Lake City... ..... Decent results, but you won't find my name on a wall anywhere.....



Lately, I've been "cheating" some 6. 5x284 brass into . 284 brass. It hurts the life of the brass, but the consistentcy is a little better..... Also been doing the same for . 260, using . 243 brass. I really don't like having the wrong headstamp on it, though..... Several of us have been petitioning Lapua to make . 284 brass for two years..... Maybe they'll hear us this year!!

 

[GHarman]

Not a problem, here HH!

Just discussin' and cussin' brass!:-laf

GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Easy Hell lets get it RIGHT!!!!! :-laf Most wouldn't even notice the difference in brass because they are PULLING THE TRIGGER as FAST as possible on the HIGH CAP AR to see how many rounds they can get down range is the shortest amount of time :-laf they have Been watching to many RAMBO MOVIES I think that if you yell while you pull the trigger it makes it faster AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT RAMBO DOES!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



WOW DIDNT GET ANY MORE ROUNDS DOWN RANGE BUT GAVE ME ONE HELL OF A RUSH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GHarman]

:-lafYer FUNNY! BIG!:-laf

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

BIG, Hey, WOW!! Gives me flashbacks of the Carrot Wars, where Woger Wabbit liberated the enslaved population of Mongolian rabbits from the tyranny of humans who were using them in their stews and wearing thier skins... ... Of course, they overpopulated, ate everything in sight, and eventual all starved to death, but that's besides the point... ... . (toooo much caffiene this morn..... that's why I don't drink coffee, GHarm!!!)



I don't pull the trigger that fast. One cartridge, one rabbit.....

 

[The patriot]

You guys are NUTS!

 

[BIGNASTY]

You guys are NUTS!

Why thank you thank you VERY MUCH!!!! it fun to be NUTS nobody expects to much of a NUT :-laf