Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Need a little advise on rifle for wife

[JLeake]

Recoil in general is an equal and opposite reaction to the force out the muzzle, tampered by the much larger mass of the rifle and person holding it.

However Saturday I shot an AR-15 with a "Battlecomp" compensator, and I was really impressed with the lack of recoil in both a 6. 8mm SPC and 5. 56mm as well as a dramatic lack of muzzle climb. The gun actually stayed on target and I could follow the bullets flight on a longer shot. I met the guys that own the company Saturday, I was impressed. I am going to put one on my AR soon. They work on bolt or other guns in addition to semi automatics.

If I was looking for a larger gun for my wife, I would take serious look at battlecomp. http://battlecomp.com/ or brownells.com

A 308 semi automatic with a battlecomp would be a sweet setup. I noticed yesterday that Brownells has them - they range from $140 to $210. They are made for 5. 56 and larger cartridges.

 

[JLeake]

Recoil in general is an equal and opposite reaction to the force out the muzzle, tampered by the much larger mass of the rifle and person holding it.



However Saturday I shot an AR-15 with a "Battlecomp" compensator, and I was really impressed with the lack of recoil in both a 6. 8mm SPC and 5. 56mm as well as a dramatic lack of muzzle climb. The gun actually stayed on target and I could follow the bullets flight on a longer shot. I met the guys that own the company Saturday, I was impressed. I am going to put one on my AR soon. They work on bolt or other guns in addition to semi automatics.



If I was looking for a larger gun for my wife, I would take serious look at battlecomp. http://battlecomp.com/ or brownells.com



A 308 semi automatic with a battlecomp would be a sweet setup. I noticed yesterday that Brownells has them - they range from $140 to $210. They are made for 5. 56 and larger cartridges.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I've harvested every animal with 30-06, including a Canadian moose. Ive also hunted California, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona. One time I used a . 270 but that was because my rifle misfired, so I grabbed by buddies gun who was sitting right next to me and wasn't paying attention; Otherwise, it would have been his blacktail.

My Dad was the poster guy for the 30/06 he said if you need more MOVE CLOSER!!

Until the one time my parents came to MT he got out of the car in Glacier and said ******* ******* BIG place. Then he admitted that he could understand my choice of calibers

 

[HHhuntitall]

BIG, all due respect, but I don't care if you shoot the animal with a 20mm, if you gut shoot, it can still run off... . They're a tough animal, as you no doubt have seen. I've killed great many numbers of game, including black bear, elk, and many, many hogs with a . 270. An improper shot will let them run. I've also seen elk shot with a . 338 Remington Ultra Mag run well over 1. 5 miles and lay down, only to get jumped and run another mile... . That same elk was shot and put down while running at close to 250 yards with a Winchester Model 70 classic SS in . 270Win..... Shot placement is key. I don't think if you can shoot, you should be hunting. It's not fair to you or your game. Granted, mistakes happen, a scope can get dinged, a shot pulled, etc... I've done it. If your wife can shoot pretty well, just about any midsize cartridge would be suitable. A 300 Win Mag might work if she can take the recoil a 180gr bullet will give her..... I'd use that as a near minimum for the caliber. Then she has to hit where she's aiming. For less recoil, IMO, a . 270 would work. I'd recommend a minimum of 150gr bullet at 2800fps, just due to the downrange energy. With that weight of bullet, there is enough energy to penetrate and break a shoulder of a bull elk out to 4-500 yards... Will she shoot that far?



My mother has a . 270 she's had for almost 30 years. She's not scared to shoot it, either. After recent coyote problems, which involved her . 357 Rossi Levergun not reaching out like it needed to, she wanted it out of the safe, and when I looked at her box of ammo, it was loaded in 1994... . So I took it for a few days, shot it all at hogs, and then reloaded for her... . She's killed two coyotes with it in the last month... .

 

[BIGNASTY]

BIG, all due respect, but I don't care if you shoot the animal with a 20mm, if you gut shoot, it can still run off... . They're a tough animal, as you no doubt have seen. I've killed great many numbers of game, including black bear, elk, and many, many hogs with a . 270. An improper shot will let them run. I've also seen elk shot with a . 338 Remington Ultra Mag run well over 1. 5 miles and lay down, only to get jumped and run another mile... . That same elk was shot and put down while running at close to 250 yards with a Winchester Model 70 classic SS in . 270Win..... Shot placement is key. I don't think if you can shoot, you should be hunting. It's not fair to you or your game. Granted, mistakes happen, a scope can get dinged, a shot pulled, etc... I've done it. If your wife can shoot pretty well, just about any midsize cartridge would be suitable. A 300 Win Mag might work if she can take the recoil a 180gr bullet will give her..... I'd use that as a near minimum for the caliber. Then she has to hit where she's aiming. For less recoil, IMO, a . 270 would work. I'd recommend a minimum of 150gr bullet at 2800fps, just due to the downrange energy. With that weight of bullet, there is enough energy to penetrate and break a shoulder of a bull elk out to 4-500 yards... Will she shoot that far?



My mother has a . 270 she's had for almost 30 years. She's not scared to shoot it, either. After recent coyote problems, which involved her . 357 Rossi Levergun not reaching out like it needed to, she wanted it out of the safe, and when I looked at her box of ammo, it was loaded in 1994... . So I took it for a few days, shot it all at hogs, and then reloaded for her... . She's killed two coyotes with it in the last month... .

HH agreed I BASE MY VIEW'S on the premise that a person doing the shooting can actually SHOOT!!! Jack O'Connor did things with a 270 that most thought impossible but we must admit the man was few and far between and he could SHOOT. My Dad shot many Elk and Deer with a 30/06 and a 150 grain slug very few did he have to re-shoot. From the pictures above DO YOU THINK that at the distances shots taken, that a 270 with 150 grain slug is an appropriate round? I hunt to eat not trophy so I LIKE TO PUT THEM DOWN so it wont taint the meat in you post you said it ran for 150 yards and then again for some distance DONT THINK THE MEAT IS GOING TO THE SAME as if you kicked it A** on the spot. THAT I WILL NOT ARGUE. But then again this is all based on the person being able to SHOOT.



When season comes around and hunters show up ITS PRETTY MUCH MANDENTORY that they take a few shots to make sure that the rifle is still a shooter and to let us know if the ya hoooo can actually function the gun and indeed shoot. Its insanity what people think about their abilities with a rifle. When they set up for a shot we usually pull our gun out also some have asked why? just in-case!!! They FLUB the shot and I have taken the game down I CANT STAND THAT!!!! IT INFUREATES ME TO THE POINT OF WANTING TO BEAT THE I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER OUT OF THE HUNTER. FIL seen this and said you cant do this so that is another reason I PACK STRING and stay away from not to serious hunters. On the other hand been with hunters that I didn't think about setting up my rig and with some off the wall small cal. gun they dropped it like just another day at the range. I like to see people have a little more power in a rifle than juuuuuuuuuuuuust enough to do the job.

 

[AABEN]

I thank a 25. 06 or the 270 would make your wife a very nice gun. Savage rifles are very accurate out of the box. GOOD LUCK .

 

[CBari]

HH and Big she can shoot better than me I am sad to say. I would ever let her dig a splinter out of my hand the way she shakes, but she can shoot well. I know one or two shots hunting want bother her if the gun kick some but she like to shoot and I am worried if I go to big and it kicks too much she will start to flinch at the range and it will carry over. Looking at the 300 win mag in the browning abolt with the boss system for the muzzle break and being able to swap the one with out the muzzle break to hunt with. Any experince with the boss system browning makes.

 

[BIGNASTY]

CBari

Im not familiar with the system you have mentioned but I REALLY LIKE YOUR CHOICE of calibers. I used that for quite a few seasons. I moved on for various reasons none of which would change you mind about the caliber its what has become the caliber of choice, we see in ALLOT OF HUNTERS that come to my Nephews camp. Recoil is no worse than an 06 as long as the 300 has a break. My wife uses a Remington 700 CDL that has a different stock and barrel screwed on WITH A BREAK, the stock is because of weather conditions its not a wood stock its made made material. The barrel is because the other one was shot out. We use a quality slug at 180 gr I DONT TRY TO REMEMBER THE LOADING STAT'S but its plenty HOT. She has taken ELK at out to HER CONFORTABLE MAX of 500 yards Dropped them like an 80 lbs anvil fell out of the sky and landed on their head. For practice YOU DONT HAVE TO SHOOT MAX if you reload and should with the powder eater that the 300 is you can load down and practice, a few weeks before season step up and shoot some hunting loads to get on point and go hunting. Another round to look at in that same ball park is the 7MM Mag. I dont like it as much as the 300 because of bullet choice but that is a matter of a different discussion. Good luck with what ever one you choose you've seen here that there are allot of choices but it all boils down to BEING ABLE TO SHOOT IMO I dont know where you plan on hunting you said the West, here we have high angle shots both up and down angles that makes a difference on how you practice.



BIG

 

[HHhuntitall]

HH and Big she can shoot better than me I am sad to say. I would ever let her dig a splinter out of my hand the way she shakes, but she can shoot well. I know one or two shots hunting want bother her if the gun kick some but she like to shoot and I am worried if I go to big and it kicks too much she will start to flinch at the range and it will carry over. Looking at the 300 win mag in the browning abolt with the boss system for the muzzle break and being able to swap the one with out the muzzle break to hunt with. Any experince with the boss system browning makes.

On the Boss sytem, Winchester used it, too. Ignore the accuracy claims. It will help reduce recoil, which, I suspect, helped many people reduce their flinching, which helped accuracy more than anything.....

 

[GHarman]

CBari,

I have recommended the Browning BOSS BAR to a friend, some years back, who wanted a traditional looking autoloader for hunting.

It was a . 30/06. The rifle tuned very well and we were getting 3/4"-1" groups at 200 yards using optics and factory loaded Federal ammo and 180 Gr, Nosler Partitions.

The concept of "tuning the barrel harmonics" is basic physics. Likewise, the operation of a muzzle brake.

A Brake on a . 300 Winchester Magnum will work more efficiently than it will on a . 30/06 or a . 308. The reason is the higher powder to bore ratio and the greater muzzle blast. That translates into more noise but a greater percentage of recoil reduction. Remember, when you get the rifle shooting well with "X" brake or BOSS hanging off the end of the barrel and then you remove the attachment. The barrel will change point of impact and group size because you changed the harmonics by changing the location of the vibrational node.

The general Physics is the same with any cartridge. Barrel length, bullet jump into the rifling, barrel geometry, pressure/time curve, weight of the brake are some of the variables

Does this make sense?

Hope it helps!

GregH

 

[GHarman]

This is how a brake works! Picture is worth a thousand words!

Check the link;

#ad


GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Greg

I dont fess up to knowing a 1/10 of what you do about building of rifles. When the gunsmith put my 338/378 together he used one kind of break when he put together the wife's 300 he used another. I questioned the reasoning behind that, purely for my info ( this is why I REALLY like this particular smith he dont get upset answering questions) he said the two different calibers needed different types of breaks not one break works on all calibers. Correct me if im wrong but sounds like what your saying TRUE? So if this is true one could in theory have an effective break on just about any caliber just because of design.

 

[GHarman]

BIG,
That is one question that I cant answer. Efficiency between one design and another is pretty much based on the manufacturer. I have no idea how to calculate gas flow and impingement.
I just know what has worked well in the past. The more recoil you want to tame, the more muzzle blast is required and the more surface area of the brake is necessary to catch that muzzle blast.
Does that make sense?
GregH

 

[CBari]

Greg correct me if I am wrong here but didn't I see that Browning was now making the the boss in a non brake version so that you don't deafen your self while hunting and shooting without ear protection. My thought was could use the brake version at the range and the non brake version on the hunt.

 

[GHarman]

CBari, Does that mean you would buy two rifles? If ya can, thats great!
If ya change anything with the BOSS, it will shoot differently. Wear Walker Game Ears or other noise attenuating hearing protection
Thats my suggestion.
GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Huh WAHT DID HE SAY? I DONT WEAR EAR PROTECTION :-laf

 

[HHhuntitall]

GHarm, we've had a limited discussion on barrel harmonics and steel pulse/sine waves before, but this one I've experimented with several times. I've used two Winchester 300WinMags with the Boss, a Winchester 270Win, Winchester 30/06, Winchester 7mmRemMag, and two Brownings, one in 300WinMag, and one in a caliber I can't remember..... Looking at the hard copy targets I have, it looks like a 340 WeatherbyMag. There are no notes other than the caliber on the targets and use with and without Boss.....



I shot many different loads through several of them, both with, adjusted to both extremities and a mid test, and then without... . I saw very little difference in the groups, other than the moving of the group's POI. Only the 270Win and the 300WinMags showed any real promise to accuracy, sub-1/2MOA. These three alone showed minor differences with the Boss screwed in to the minimal positions... . Now, removing the Boss completely hurt the 340 and the '06, but the others, it only lowered the POI and moved one to the left... . I made a cap for the 270 and installed at a later date, and I know it made it spread the groups out!!! I had to reinstall the muzzlebreak..... It's a safe queen... . Shoots too good to unscrew the barrel, and with the muzzlebreak, maybe my kids can shoot it... I had the thought of letting the wife shoot it, but she's pretty happy with her . 243... ... I've been going to try the cap on something else, but none have survived the barrel vise or trading list..... One of the best 300s went to my cousin, but he's hesitant to let me play with it..... It's one of his favorites!!



I'll try to see if the scanner will take them in and shoot you an email, Gharm, if you're interested.



The muzzlebreak effect is most noticable on the 300WinMags... Being sporters, when you touch the round off without the break, you definitely notice the difference!!! :-laf

 

[GHarman]

Absolutely, HHhuntitall!
Send 'em over!
I'd love to see 'em!
GregH

 

[GHarman]

HH, If ya want to do an experiment in barrel harmonics. Take one of those rifles that is a mediocre performer and bed the forend tip with the PermaTex High Temp RTV. No forend upward pressure, just a contact point.
Man what a difference!
I got 2 for 2 on that process in limited testing!
GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

I do have that on the table for experimentation... . now I just need the time... . purchased a . 308 Scout that's not proving to be a good shooter off the porch, and have an old Husquavarna mauser . 270 that are both candidates.....



On a side note, I've got an hour cleaning my scanner... . The dang 340 target shredded inside the machine..... Guess it caught on some of the paper around the holes..... #@$%!