Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Need advice on turbo upgrade

[RLDunn]

Hello,

I need some advice on which way to go with a turbo. 02 Dodge, 235 hp, 5 speed. I am using it for some fairly heavy towing 25-38,000 lbs gross, 30,000 being average. I plan on installing some DDP 75 hp injectors, more than likely a smarty or a TS MVP module, a clutch, Air Dog 150 already installed, and a turbo. I thought the turbo would be one of the easiest decisions but it has turned out to be the hardest.



High Tech turbo said their HX35/40 hybrid would be enough, one added plus is that I can use my existing exhaust brake and exhaust system. I have heard these turbos tend to break shafts but the guy at High Tech said the people having shaft problems are primarily the ones that are not running waste gates or are over 40-45 psi boost. He said if the boost is kept under 35 I won’t have shaft problems. They said this turbo would be about 100 CFM over stock, an HTB2 being 250 cfm over stock, and stock being 550-650 depending on who you talk to.



DDP recommended that with the weight I am dealing with they recommended building me a turbo, approximately a 62/14 (the person I talked to did not know exactly what size as it was going to be a custom job and was unsure of the CFM also), and that the 35/40 would be too small. In doing so it would mean basically the same thing as going with a HTB2, or Super B and by that I mean I would need to purchase a new in line exh brake and 4 inch exhaust. They actually said with that kind of weight I should be running towing twins, but that is not an option because I just can’t afford it.



Going the HX35/40 route is about $2000-2400 cheaper but I am a bit concerned that it will not be enough. Although I keep a close eye on the pyro and I don’t drive it WFO while towing I do want this hp upgrade to be clean and dependable, not smoky and hot.



I also talked to Aurora, and they said their 3000 (57mm compressor wheel) pushes 1050 CFM, they also said that although it is recommended that a 4 inch exhaust be used with their 3000 and 4000 turbos that I could get the 3000 with the correct turbine house so I could still use my exhaust brake.



BD said their Super B pushed 840 CFM and has a 57 mm compressor wheel.



What do you guys think? And thanks for the help.

 

[Wiredawg]

I have the Piers Hybrid HX-35 w/ 14 cm2 housing. It does pretty good, but the ATS 3000 sounds like it might be better for my heavy towing. Do a search on ATS turbos or specifically the 3000.



Let us know what you find out and decide on.



Wiredawg

 

[BDaugherty]

I would be just as concerned about too big a turbo as I would too small. From what I've read around the TDR, too big a turbo will be hard to spool when you need it most. Another option is to find a used HX35 from a

12V truck (I think) and then buy parts from Piers to do a low buck compound setup. You can reuse your stock exhaust manifold and really only have to buy one new turbo and some piping. There are options.

As a side note, you'll be pulling pretty heavy with your NV4500. Don't forget Fast Coolers or something similar. Also, upgrading the mainshaft new could save you $$ and downtime in the future.

 

[jgillott]

Back when I had my 2001, I was running a set of ~125 HP injectors, a Hot Rod VP, CaTcher ECM (early smarty programming) stacked with a Drag Comp, and supported it with a Dodgezilla 35/40 14cmW Hybrid, while keeping my Jacobs turbo mounted exhaust brake. The dang thing dynoed just over 450 hp and towed like a dream with the comp box off. It lit instantly under load, had zero lag, and kept the egt's in check in all but the most extreme conditions. I'd highly recommend one at the fuel level you are going to be at.

 

[Midnite]

I think either Piers, HTT's, or any other reputable shop's HX-35/40 hybrids would be fine. I've certainly never towed as heavy as you're talking about, but I've gone as high as about 20,000 lbs. I never turned the Comp down and my PDR HX-35 performed beautifully.

What injectors do you currently have, or are planning to use with the new turbo?

Mike

 

[RLDunn]

BDaugherty, I agree 100% on the too big of a turbo, I spent some time talking to Industrial injection this morning and I asked them how big a turbo would have to be before it was too big for what I am doing and I was told that a 62/12 would be fine and that if I were to go to something like a 66 or a Silver Bullet it would cause problems. The compound idea sounds interesting, installation I would not be worried about, but tuning I can see as a big problem. Thanks for the heads up on the main shaft as I will look into that.



JGillot, that's great information, thanks.



Midnite, I was planning on using a 75 hp injector. Both Ind. Inj. and DDP told me basically the same thing. That being that with the weight I am pulling the ideal set up would be 62 sized turbo, 4 inch exh, inline brake, with the 75 hrs injectors. In fact Ind. Inj. also recommended the same set up with their Stage 1 270 marine injector (40 hp injector).



At this point I feel myself leaning toward the more expensive route. I wish I could find more information on DDP turbos, I haven't had too much luck searching on here.



RLDunn

 

[Forrest Nearing]

62/12 would be killer IMO



but an old school hybrid would allow you to use your brake. If you decide to go that route, I have a brand new 14cm gated turbine housing I could probably sell for half retail

 

[RLDunn]

Thanks, I will keep that turbine housing in mind. How do you think the 62/12 will be driving to work? Will it spool up slow and basically suck for daily driving?

 

[GOTSOOT]

62/12 62/12 62/12!!!!!!free rev 10#boost

 

[RLDunn]

Hope I don't sound dumb here but what do you mean "free rev 10#boost"



I just talked to City Diesel, they are recommending a 60/12 Dodgezilla with 8o hp injectors. They said I could stay with the factory exhaust brake and exhaust if I wanted to but of course a 4 in exh would help.



Also talked to Piers, they told me that 300HP is all I would be able to effectively use towing that much weight and recommended a 40 hp injector and a super S300 57/13 turbo. they said the 62-12 will not be effective at high elevation. I really shouldn't see high elevations all that often, except for on road trips. elevation here at home is 350-950 (back and forth to work).



I am hoping that the people that i am calling are not getting too hung up on the weight or the towing thing, I spend more time driving to work empty than i do towing.



I must say this is pretty darned confusing, many different opinions.

 

[BJMarshall]

Hey Forrest I sent you a PM.

 

[Wiredawg]

RLDunn,



I see you have the SO motor, which presents less problem w/ higher EGTs than I have w/ my HO motor. I had a 2000 2500 SO 6spd w/ 3. 54s, stock turbo, RV 275 injectors and TST PM II with 315 hp/750 ish ft lbs tq was a great all around truck and pulled my 17K 5th wheel much better than my 02 3500 w/ almost 400 hp and 950ish ft lbs tq. Although the 02 pulls like a fright train, I really have to keep an eye on the EGT gauge.



I may change my turbo configuration by taking the Piers off the 02, replace it with an ATS 3000 and put the Piers on my '93.



From what I've read, the ultimate towing/performance setup may be dual turbos, but I'm not sure I want to drop $5K on it.



Just more food for thought.



Wiredawg

 

[Forrest Nearing]

Hope I don't sound dumb here but what do you mean "free rev 10#boost"

he means he can make 10psi just revving the truck in neutral...



the 62/12 will probably spool better than stock...



my 62/71/14 spooled similar to an HX35/18 down low, but it went from 15-55psi as quick as you could blink

 

[RLDunn]

Wiredawg, I felt the same way about the twins, probably the ideal set up and sound very cool to boot but it's not in the budget. I would be real interested to hear how the 3000 works for you.



Forrest, thanks, I figured that's what he meant but wasn't sure, I would be suprised if my stock turbo even moves the needle on the manifold press gauge free reving it, I will have to check that out in the morning. One thing that most everyone that I called agreed on was that i should have a 4 in exh so if I have to go that route and if the 62/12 spools up quickly I am fairly sure that is what I will do. I would like to get a turbo from DDP so things are fairly matched and from the same vendor but I still have not been able to find much info on their turbos, makes me wonder why?

 

[Forrest Nearing]

don't get hung up on buying everything from one vendor... I buy my boots at the boot store, and my coveralls at the coverall store... Nothing wrong w/ buying product from people that specialize in that particular product.

 

[JR2]

While I have never bought anything from DDP, I don't think I wouild hesistae to put a turbo from them on my truck. I have never seen anyone say anything bad about Lenny and his crew.



You might want to watch the classifides on a few of the diesel sites. There seem to be quite a few guys taking twins off and returning to stock to sell there trucks. You might find twins for the price of a new turbo.

 

[Joe Mc]

RLDunn - I can't speak on the turbo question because I only haul my bigas and an occasional load of camping equip +/- 700#, My 64/14 QD works great for my hot rodding style, and can peak the temp gage after a bit w/comp on kill. A buddy of mine runs a 62/16 and occasionally hauls a 35' 5th wheel travel trailer, with his trailer and comp on 3/3 he's never seen more than 1100* going up a 3 - 4* grade at highway speeds. He has 5" exhaust and 7" stacks.

I can speak on bigger exhaust, which you already seem to agree you need to do. From my experience the 4" Magnaflow system I used was an easy install in my driveway with simple hand tools, the hardest part was removing the old system (aided by a saws-all). More air in and allowing more air out (4" exhaust) will net lower egts add some fuel + more "cold" air = what you're looking for. MHO if you tow infrequently, and daily drive mostly + want to have some fun when empty big sticks, more "cool" air will be fun. And, turning the box down for timing versus fuel while towing and watching the egt gage should net the towing performance you need - "infrequently". Once again this is just MHO. Happy hunting.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Today there are a number of good turbochargers available, so there won't be only one “right” decision. Only the 35/40 hybrid has the small 2. 5” outlet for a 3” band clamp as required by the second-generation Turbo Diesel elbow-mounted exhaust brake. Yes, the shaft on these Holset turbos is relatively weak, but HTT gave you a reasonable assessement on it. If you go to a 4” exhaust, your choices are wider. You definitely will benefit from a bigger turbo, but don't go ‘too big” because boost will be lower at normal running conditions, giving higher egt's. on the other hand, you want a turbo big enough to support the increased power that you will most likely be using when towing. Your best bet is to select a reputable, knowledgeable turbo vendor and then take their advice whether selecting a single turbo, or compound turbos.

 

[icman95]

If you check out my sig, you'll find a similar setup to yours. When loaded I tow about 22k lbs and have to watch my egt's. The hybrid turbo I'm using was put together by HTT using my original turbine housing for exactly the same reason-I wanted to keep my original jake. At first I had DDP 110hp and they were WAY too much. Thanks to DDP being stand-up guys they took back those and sent me 75's which work much better. The turbo spools slowly when towing and you have to be careful to start out slow. Once reving the motor, you can give it some juice, but keep your eye on the gauges. I can tow at any legal highway speed (and beyond) without over heating the egt's but, you will have to learn how to drive differently because the turbo will change your torque curve. You will push everything to a higher RPM. Not a bad thing, just different. I can pull like there's no tomorrow, but have to back out of it when the gauge says so. I almost wish I had my original turbo back to see if it would do better because it spools faster, but in the end, I'm happy with my setup. If you're so inclined, the cheapest way to go is to send your original turbo to HTT, have them do the conversion and send it back. It comes out to about 1/2 price. They only downside is that if you want to change back, you can't. Also, no matter what you do, keep that jake. Besides of the engine itself, it is the best, most reliable component you have. I love mine and wouldn't do without it. This is why I did the turbo setup I have.



BTW, I contacted Aurora and they said they DO NOT have a turbo that will fit a turbo mounted jake, but that was a year and 1/2 ago. Perhaps they have changed now. If they had one at the time, I would have bought it. Their website said at the time that they had one that fits the factory exhaust elbow (jake brake), but when I talked to their rep on the phone, he said no way. HMMM... .

 

[monkeyman]

I have a 2002 with a HT stainless Pro 66, if you don't have injectors to match, a larger turbo won't do much. That goes with the other end, meaning exhaust also. I have had about four different turbo's on my truck and really like the way the HT performs.

Just my $. 02

Rick