Need help diagnosing vibration 60-75mph

[GCroyle]

Just throwing this out there. It was recently reviewed by TDR magazine.

 

[Blakers]

Just throwing this out there. It was recently reviewed by TDR magazine.

Wow! I wonder what that costs? Could be a handy tool.

 

[Sportfury70]

Looks like it’s 99.99 on the app store. Considering what I’ve put into the truck it would have paid for it self 10 times over if it’s accurate. Wonder if it can see past the mighty rumble of the Cummins.

 

[Superdawg]

I am a sucker for tools. I did purchase this and only had time to run it one time on my Dodge. The 5.9 Cummins Dodge has to be manually entered in (not in the built in library of vehicles). No selection choice for diesel engine. After the first run, it appears the app picks up a lot of engine vibration, what I think is normal. I will need to look into this a little deeper. The 5.9 may have too much vibration for this app to work. Maybe. I need some time to dig into this.
I apologize for the tease and not much good info.

 

[GCroyle]

Contact app developer and pose findings and questions.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I bought my truck new in 2004. I have had a vibe... it's a higher frequency driveline vibe.. nothing I think tires can do although some treads possibly could. I've had different brand tires on this over the years but I have concluded it's some harmonic in the driveline. I had the rear driveshaft totally rebuilt including the yokes removed and rewelded.... than balanced and new joints. Seemed a little better but one thing that helped is going with 35" tires moved the vibe into the 75-80 mph range. I have to wonder if it's inherent in the transfer case. I think I have read that a new case has fixed it. On another topic, I fought with death wobble for years.Cured it with Fox dual steering stabilizer setup. But we all know that is a band aid. What really cured it was to replace the steering box with a Delphi larger bolt in unit. I was able to remove the stabilizer system and go back to the single factory style damper. I haven't had a hint of death wobble in 100k miles. Truck currently has 187k on it. We just moved from SE PA to East Texas so she's racking up the miles now. Just a trip shopping puts 50 miles on it.

 

[Superdawg]

I seemed to have missed the review of the vibration app in the TDR magagazine. Can anyone point me to which issue that was?

 

[Sportfury70]

So I got a final update. A set of stock 275/70R18s popped up on CL from a 2018 3500 for a price I couldn’t ignore. I picked them up and voila, the truck is smooth as silk on the highway. So to recap, after 3 tire balances, all new u-joints and two balanced drive shafts, new ball joints, new control arms, new hubs, upgraded 08+ steering, and an alignment to don thuren specs, the damn problem was the tires all along. FML

Any way, these tires have about 20k miles left on them, after which I’ll be putting on Duratrac 285/75R18s.

Thanks for all your help in this debacle. Spent too much money, but the truck is better than ever now.

 

[Blakers]

I have to wonder if it's inherent in the transfer case. I think I have read that a new case has fixed it.

Personally, I have never heard of an inherent vibration issue from the transfer case. I just rebuilt mine after 318,000 and, other than a worn out chain and sprockets, everything else was good. I did replace bearings and seals, but I wouldn't have had to. But I don't know of anything in there that could cause a vibration.

 

[Blakers]

So I got a final update. A set of stock 275/70R18s popped up on CL from a 2018 3500 for a price I couldn’t ignore. I picked them up and voila, the truck is smooth as silk on the highway. So to recap, after 3 tire balances, all new u-joints and two balanced drive shafts, new ball joints, new control arms, new hubs, upgraded 08+ steering, and an alignment to don thuren specs, the damn problem was the tires all along. FML

Any way, these tires have about 20k miles left on them, after which I’ll be putting on Duratrac 285/75R18s.

Thanks for all your help in this debacle. Spent too much money, but the truck is better than ever now.

Glad you got this figured out. I ran 315-70x17 tires for years and have had trouble with certain brands. The last ones were General ATx, which could not be kept in balance from the beginning. I'm now running Toya Open Country 285-75x17 and they're doing really well.

I think our trucks are hard on tires as the torque from accelerating twists the tires pretty good, especially when going up hills a lot. This must break down the internal structure of the tires so they can't hold a balance.

 

[cerberusiam]

Unfortunately that is what happens when running a tire not rated for the vehicle. The standard 17" tire is not heavy enough unless you use the short ones and even they are questionable at times. They make look good, they may balance, and still vibrate at speed and\or warm. The Duratracs are weight rated high enough they should be a good long life tire if the compound is hard enough, otherwise these trucks just chew the tires off even on good roads.

 

[Sportfury70]

Well, time to revive the thread. I knew cheaping out on the control arms could bite me, turns out it did.

The bushings in the TCG arms are already shot. They got to right at 10k miles and the truck started riding poorly. If I hit a pot hole or rough road over 60mph, I get bad wheel tramp. The bilstiens have 55k on them so should still be good, but their days are definitely numbered.

Im not messing around this time. Ordered metalcloak arms (thuren recommends them as an alternative to theirs), carli signature shocks, and thuren 3” soft ride springs.

Arms and shocks are here, springs are getting delivered next Monday.

wish me luck!

 

[bcbender]

200k on my 04 and never had any problems with control arms, bushings, etc.. but maybe I'm the lucky one

 

[Sportfury70]

I’m at 255k now. Stuff just goes bad eventually… Hope yours holds out. When it finally does though, don’t cheap out!

 

[Sportfury70]

You know I sent TGC an email asking about their bushing dimensions so I could just order some from synergy, but I didn’t hear boo from them. Was going to maybe pull the arms and measure the bushings myself, but said screw it. Just get better arms and maybe recoupe a little money on the old parts.

 

[Ozymandias]

Still OEM arms at 200K+ and lots of Offroad abuse on them.
Would never buy anything else then OEM for my setup, stuff seems to last forever.

 

[Smoke Eater]

498K and still on OEM. I should give the front end a good once over soon to see where it's at. I'm pretty sure it's time to replace the track bar bushings. Starting to feel a little wander in the steering.

 

[Yo Hoot]

498K and still on OEM. I should give the front end a good once over soon to see where it's at. I'm pretty sure it's time to replace the track bar bushings. Starting to feel a little wander in the steering.

My OEM arms rusted through at one of the bushings. 150k. Northeast winters and plowing in salt. Since replaced with Thuren aftermarket arms. I now have 190k.

As far as the 60-75mph vibration is concerned, Since my truck was brand new (2004) I have had to deal with a drivetrain vibration. Alot of people had it. When I changed tire size to larger 35", the vibe moved up to 70-80mph so I didn't worry about it as much. I had the rear driveshaft rebuilt entirely by an expert. He cut the yokes off and rewelded them, dynamically balanced the shaft and installed new U-joints. That helped some but I have had this truck for 17 years and it still has it. Personally I think it's the transfer case.

There is a usually big difference between tire vibes and drivetrain vibes. Drivetrain vibes are almost always a higher frequency than most tire vibrations. Bad tires tend to give you a feel in the steering wheel whereas drivetrain vibes you tend to feel in the floor.

 

[cerberusiam]

If the truck has over 200k the control arm bushings are likely bad in a couple ways. The rubber doesn't last that long and it is is flexing, the shouldered bolts are froze in the inserts, or, wore so there is more movement than normal in them. Even with poly bushings and ant-seize they will be issues. I have to cut 2 bolts out after 150k on new bushings and lots of anti-seize on them. Durometer ends do not work n these trucks, did not get 100k out of those control arms.

The shouldered bolts are a problem area, those need replaced with standard sized bolts that fit the bushing inserts and well lubed with anti-seize. It may look and feel tight but likely is not when you go to work on them. Poly ends on the arms, dump the shouldered bolts, and lots of anti-seize is what is working now on 3 trucks.

Unless you are on smooth pavement with DD use suspect even the Bilstein's to have issues after 50K or so, 5100's or 5160's are just not heavy enough for the beating they can take on rough roads. Have to double shock the front axle to get decent mileage out of shocks and provide good control on rough roads, both ride and steering are improved with double front shocks.

 

[Yo Hoot]

If the truck has over 200k the control arm bushings are likely bad in a couple ways. The rubber doesn't last that long and it is is flexing, the shouldered bolts are froze in the inserts, or, wore so there is more movement than normal in them. Even with poly bushings and ant-seize they will be issues. I have to cut 2 bolts out after 150k on new bushings and lots of anti-seize on them. Durometer ends do not work n these trucks, did not get 100k out of those control arms.

The shouldered bolts are a problem area, those need replaced with standard sized bolts that fit the bushing inserts and well lubed with anti-seize. It may look and feel tight but likely is not when you go to work on them. Poly ends on the arms, dump the shouldered bolts, and lots of anti-seize is what is working now on 3 trucks.

Unless you are on smooth pavement with DD use suspect even the Bilstein's to have issues after 50K or so, 5100's or 5160's are just not heavy enough for the beating they can take on rough roads. Have to double shock the front axle to get decent mileage out of shocks and provide good control on rough roads, both ride and steering are improved with double front shocks.

When I removed my old arms I had to sawzall 3 of them. I tried everything. Just years of salt water and corrosion locked them in the frame. I torched them, set the rubber on fire LOL.. didn't work. Was a job for sure.