Need help diagnosing vibration 60-75mph

[Sportfury70]

Between copious antiseize (the marine grade stuff) and fluid film every year, I’ve not had too much of an issue working under the trucks. When I did my ball joints though, what a PIA. The fit is too tight for any meaningful antisieze or high film strength grease. Only way to go is using the right tools and lots of fire.

I used new bolts when I put the TCG arms in, and will reuse them for the metalcloaks. Not sure why the original bolts had a tapered shoulder, but the new stuff is a solid shoulder for the length of the bolt.

 

[Sportfury70]

My OEM arms rusted through at one of the bushings. 150k. Northeast winters and plowing in salt. Since replaced with Thuren aftermarket arms. I now have 190k.

As far as the 60-75mph vibration is concerned, Since my truck was brand new (2004) I have had to deal with a drivetrain vibration. Alot of people had it. When I changed tire size to larger 35", the vibe moved up to 70-80mph so I didn't worry about it as much. I had the rear driveshaft rebuilt entirely by an expert. He cut the yokes off and rewelded them, dynamically balanced the shaft and installed new U-joints. That helped some but I have had this truck for 17 years and it still has it. Personally I think it's the transfer case.

There is a usually big difference between tire vibes and drivetrain vibes. Drivetrain vibes are almost always a higher frequency than most tire vibrations. Bad tires tend to give you a feel in the steering wheel whereas drivetrain vibes you tend to feel in the floor.

Mine was definitely the tires. New ones solved the shake. I still get a very minor driveline vibration above 70mph, but I know it’s either the front DS CV, xfer case output, or pinion flange. It’s not enough to chase. I installed a new pinion seal and rebuilt the xfer case last year, as well as had the front DS rebuilt. I’m happy with it.

Lokking forward to seeing how it rides with the new coils, arms, and carli shocks.

 

[Blakers]

I haven't had any problem with my control arms at 322k through northwestern Pennsylvania winters, dirt roads, and lots of off road use. Mine still has the original shocks on the front, but I have a set of Bilsteins waiting in the box. I just have to get the time and the nerve to try to get those bottom bolts out without breaking them off.

Vibrations is something I have just gotten used to, especially with a South Bend clutch and a worn rear end. But my truck has had some vibration and road noise since it was new.

 

[Sportfury70]

A bit to unpack on this post. Before my coils and arms arrived, the truck developed full blown death wobble. Figured it was the control arms throwing the suspension geometry out of whack, I just avoided the highways and limped the truck back and forth to work.

Last Monday I was able to install the coils, arms, and carli shocks. I have to say, it rides sooo nice compared to the previous set up. BUT, I still have death wobble if I hit any kind of pothole or gap above 55 mph. FML

So Tuesday I verified a 4 to 5 degree caster, rotated tires, adjusted toe-in to exactly 1/16”, and retorqued ALL suspension bolts to no avail.

Today I pulled the track bar (carli) to inspect the joints, and they are as solid as when new. However I noticed the frame side mount bolt hole was just a little wallowed out, so I drilled it out to accept the 16mm bolt from the 4th gen. Reinstalled and torqued to 210ftlbs. Thinking that must have been it, I hit the road, and STILL had death wobble.

To recap, since last summer the truck has gotten new timken hub bearings, napa hd ball joints, all spicer u joints, new tires, t steering upgrade, sway bar endlinks, thuren coils, carli shocks, and metalcloak arms, and more alignments than probably necessary.

What on earth am I missing? I checked the ball joints and there’s almost zero play, but maybe they went bad already and I just can’t stress them enough to see the deflection? I literally cannot afford to put any more money into it. I have to drive it from Buffalo to NH on Friday, and will be taking the scenic route to avoid highway speeds.

When I get home I’m going to warranty swap the ball joints to see if that helps. And then promptly start saving for EMF joints I guess.

Im pretty disgusted with how this is turning out considering the time and money I’ve spent to fix what started out as a damn tire vibration just a half a year ago.

Any ideas of no-cost things I can look at that I haven’t already during the course of this thread? The entire truck has been torqued to service manual standard, and the tie rods are firm and smooth. What the bleep is left?

 

[Sportfury70]

Here’s a vid I took this afternoon after I reinstalled the track bar. I noticed a slight click in the steering box which is why you see me keep going back to the pitman arm, but that doesn’t explain the death wobble. Y’all see anything else out of the ordinary from it?

oh don’t mind mind the black over spray. It’s just fluid film undercoat. I do it every winter.

 

[Ozymandias]

I haven't had any problem with my control arms at 322k through northwestern Pennsylvania winters, dirt roads, and lots of off road use. Mine still has the original shocks on the front, but I have a set of Bilsteins waiting in the box. I just have to get the time and the nerve to try to get those bottom bolts out without breaking them off.

Vibrations is something I have just gotten used to, especially with a South Bend clutch and a worn rear end. But my truck has had some vibration and road noise since it was new.

Soak them for days from the rear with PB - then use an impact to loosen them. Do not try with a wrench, you need the impact.
If they don't come, heat them with a torch from the rear.
If you break them you are doomed.

 

[Blakers]

Soak them for days from the rear with PB - then use an impact to loosen them. Do not try with a wrench, you need the impact.
If they don't come, heat them with a torch from the rear.
If you break them you are doomed.

Thanks! The truck has been Fluid Filmed for years, but I don't know if they hit this area. I'll soak it down. Probably won't work on it until spring.

 

[bcbender]

I used a DC Makita 1/2 impact the other day when I could not get some 9/16 trailer lug nuts and the big center pivot bolt on my equalizers that were rusted off ... MAN that thing has some umphff... My 1/2 air impact wouldn't touch em but the DC one ripped em right off.. I was alittle scared they might break but soaked them for days in PB / heat / PB...repeat and they came loose. Man they were hot when I tried to pick them up.

 

[Sportfury70]

Hey so I put in the new ball joints. Old ones seemed fine, but it’s worth a shot anyway.

Ran into something weird, can someone confirm something for me?

The t steering upgrade is the moot kit. The passenger side tie rod end stud moves left and right, but not forward and backward. It spins like a joint should, and is nice and tight. It really seems machined this way, but the driver tie rod moves a full 360 like I’m used to.

Does moog make it this way to stabilize the rack, or is mine just defective?

 

[AEdelheit]

Hey so I put in the new ball joints. Old ones seemed fine, but it’s worth a shot anyway.

Ran into something weird, can someone confirm something for me?

The t steering upgrade is the moot kit. The passenger side tie rod end stud moves left and right, but not forward and backward. It spins like a joint should, and is nice and tight. It really seems machined this way, but the driver tie rod moves a full 360 like I’m used to.

Does moog make it this way to stabilize the rack, or is mine just defective?

That is a patented design from Ram that Moog uses to prevent Tie rod roll though anything Moog on these trucks is a huge red flag.

 

[Sportfury70]

That is a patented design from Ram that Moog uses to prevent Tie rod roll though anything Moog on these trucks is a huge red flag.

Oh man thanks for clearing that up!!

Yeah there’s a few parts during this journey that I would have preferred a different brand. My original Y style set had 250k+ on it, and was definitely worn out, but still impressive that it lasted that long before developing problems. Unfortunately only aftermarket was available and moog was the best option for affordability while upgrading to T style. One day I’d like to do EMF ball joints and steering linkage, but that will have to wait for the sake of the empty wallet.

on another note, the replacement Napa ball joints are in. I have to hand it to Napa, I couldn’t find my original receipt, and couldn’t even remember which store I bought the joints from. After a few calls to some stores around where I thought I made the purchase in NH, one of the managers pulled a miracle and found my receipt. I was able to get a Napa here in Buffalo swap them out. I’m not convinced there were any issues with the old joints, but even if there were, Napa went the extra mile to help me out. That’s worth something even if they don’t compare to carli or thuren.

Luckily I antisiezed the crap out of the hubs and joints last time, so the old joints pressed out and new one pressed in without issue. Only took me about 2 hours.

I set caster to max, toe to exactly zero, centered the steering wheel, and tires to 60 front, 50 rear. My commute is 40 mins to and from work, and had no death wobble like the last two days. I have a 450 mile drive tomorrow, and will be taking rt20 to avoid highways. I’ll know tomorrow for sure if I’ve finally fixed DW, and will post an update. I have my tools to make alignment adjustments during the drive.

I really hope it’s over with, because after today I’m fresh out of ideas. Wish me luck!

 

[Sportfury70]

I used a DC Makita 1/2 impact the other day when I could not get some 9/16 trailer lug nuts and the big center pivot bolt on my equalizers that were rusted off ... MAN that thing has some umphff... My 1/2 air impact wouldn't touch em but the DC one ripped em right off.. I was alittle scared they might break but soaked them for days in PB / heat / PB...repeat and they came loose. Man they were hot when I tried to pick them up.

It took me years to justify buying a cordless impact. Kobalt had a sale on theirs two years ago for like $100 or so. Honestly don’t know how I ever lived without it. The battery lasts forever and it’s way more effective than my ingersoll pneumatic. It stays in my truck and I even used it today to rip off the axle nuts.

If it ever dies I’d love a Milwaukee, but at a fraction of the price the Kobalt is hard to beat.

 

[Sportfury70]

Well after 450+ miles, the death wobble seems cured. Still not sure if the ball joints helped, or if I just nailed the alignment, but it for sure rides much better than it ever used to.

After hitting a large pot hole, there still seems to be some DW like vibration that tapers off real quickly. Might be the caster self correcting, or bumpsteer. I have a bilstien damper coming in to see if it smooths that out.

 

[Ozymandias]

No DW with T-Setup and Zero Toe - as DW origins from right and left wheel fighting each other.

 

[Sportfury70]

No DW with T-Setup and Zero Toe - as DW origins from right and left wheel fighting each other.

Unless there’s play somewhere that changes geometry. I originally had it aligned to thuren specs by a an old optical alignment guy. Had no issues with it for a while until this last debaucle. Wish I would have measured before I changed the control arms and springs, but whatever.

I do tape measure method on tire centerline with a buddy and have always been successful. After every adjustment I move the truck briefly to settle the links. I don’t care for the angle iron, since there’s no load on the wheels when you measure and putting it back on the ground can flex you back out of alignment. This time I think I hit the sweet spot.

I have a set of 285-75s I want to put on, but I’m gun shy after getting it back in shape. With my luck the new tires will cause another issue.

 

[Blakers]

I have a set of 285-75s I want to put on, but I’m gun shy after getting it back in shape. With my luck the new tires will cause another issue.

I put some 285/75-17 Toyo Open Country on my 03, on the original rims, and they are doing very well. Truck likes the ratio and they are wearing evening and good. I ran 315/70-17 of different flavors for years and the truck seemed to eat them up pretty bad. The worst were the last ones that lasted less than a year and would not stay in balance - General Grabber AT3. I think the diesel puts too much torque into the 315 tires and ruins something inside. Especially when a lot of daily hills are involved.