NEED HELP !!!! Mallory takes a dirt nap and damage to my front universals

[Bigsaint]

I need help. Today, my Mallory 4150 took a dirt nap on me. I had the truck parked, at idle with the exhaust brake on while I strolled through the isles of the local hardware store. When I returned to the truck, I noticed my SPA FP gauge was reading -11, that's right, way below 0. My first thought was that the SPA electric sender was acting up due to the vibrations from the Cummins. I released the e-brake and let the truck cool down, then shut her off. I then bumped the starter, to check FP and found no reading from the SPA gauge (0) and the lift pump was dead quite. I figured that I blew a fuse(the Mallory is wired into the existing "hot line" that the original Carter lift pump was on) so I start checking both the interior and engine compartment power distribution centers to look for a lift or transfer pump fuse, but the only thing I could find was the relay (fuse?) under the hood, which I removed and replaced, after a short trip to my local D. C. dealer. After I installed the relay, I again bumped the starter, no FP psi's and no noise from the Mallory, when it now should be humming for about 20 seconds or so. I was able to get a test light from a friend that stopped by to assist, and I have power to the Mallory when I bump the starter. Not the end of the world, I figure. I'll just get the truck towed to my place of employment, order another lift pump and put it in, then all will be okay. I friend of mine responds with his tow truck, a flat bed as his conventional rig is down for repairs, and proceeds to put my baby huey on top of the flat bed, barely fit. As the truck is being winched up, my buddy, standing next to the flat bed as I am inside, steering it up, hears a loud noise and see's a flat black washer fly from the front of my truck and land underneath my truck. A closer inspection reveals that the tow operator placed his "hooks" inside the front universals, both left and right, and sheared off two of the "caps" that seal the universal bearings. I'm guessing that's what they are. I found one cap missing from the left universal and one from the right. Looks like they were pressed in, am I right ? My truck is now safely resting at my P. D. , awaiting a new lift pump, which I will next day order tomorrow. My only real question is whether the truck is safe to drive without the caps on the universal bearings. My buddy, the tow operator, promised to make good on any necessary repairs to the universals, but it's yet another headache to deal with in my already insane schedule this week. Does anyone have an idea on what the repair to my universals will cost and can I drive it safely to a shop in this condition ? I will replace the Mallory myself, and tear down the bad one to attempt to locate the cause of the problem. I figure that's the cost of being your own warranty station. I don't have the time/tools or where with all to repair the universals, so it's going to have to go to a shop to get them repaired. Any advice that an expert can give on the universals would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post. Please help !!!! ... ---...

Scott W.

White 2001. 5 3500 ETH/DEE 4X4 Quad cab SLT,tow package and camper prep,Husky liners front and rear,DiPricol pyro,boost and oil temp gauges,SPA fuel pressure and temp. gauge,Edge EZ,Psychotty air,Bully Dog stage III injectors,ATS 3 piece manifold,HX40 turbo,4" BD exhaust,4" BD E-brake,McLeod clutch,Mallory 4150 lift pump,Mag-Hytec rear,Go-Rhino grill guard,Lund bug shield,PM tractor utility back up lights,Penda bed mat,365. 8 HP on the dyno and blow by bottle is bye bye !!! I love the smell of diesel in the morning, it reminds me of... . VICTORY !!!
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1231655&a=9089608" TARGET=_blank><font color=red>My Truck</font></A>
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1231655&a=9089604" TARGET=_blank><font color=red>THE SAINTS</font></A>

 

[csutton7]

since my truck is at the HVAC warehouse--I can't go look and give ya an opinion on the uni-joints--but buuuuummmmmerrrrrr... don't think I'd drive it.....

how long had the Mallory been in---plumbed with a regulator... relocated??? what other info can you shed..... chris

 

[rod77zilla]

Wow!Your day went from bad to worse! Was it a bearing cup from your Ujoint or was it flat? If it kinda looks like a socket, I wouldn't drive it because its a bearing cup and you don't have manual locking hubs, so your wheels spin the axle shafts when you drive... the ujoint may spit the other cup out and the axleshafts may hit each other meaning you will need inner and stub axleshafts instead of just a $10 ujoint. (unless you do what we do and drive a socket through the ujoint holes to make them round again). I build rockcrawling jeeps for fun, so I'm pretty familiar with tearing down front axles. But I'm having a hard time figuring out what part you broke off. If you give a more detailed description , I can look up a diagram in my service manual, or I might know what it is. .

 

[rod77zilla]

Oh yeah i forgot! If it was indeed a bearing cup,(were there needle bearings in it?) they are usually held in by snap rings that fit into grooves machined into the axle shafts. Your axleshafts may be destroyed anyway if you buggered up the grooves... but let's find out what you broke before we get ya paranoid

 

[DieselB59]

I am available if you need any help Scott. Just let me know when. My schedule is also hectic, but I want to see what is up before I tell you if you can drive it or not.

------------------
Chris Timochko
*Association of Diesel Specialists Certified*
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Rhino Linings, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. /Mallory Fuel System and Braided Stainless Lines, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s. 15. 50@97mph on Goodyear All-Terrain tires. Dynoed at Ida's: 435 hp at the rear wheels.
****************************************************************************
Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Mist Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission. 11. 54@115mph

 

[Wcr25]

A closer inspection reveals that the tow operator placed his "hooks" inside the front universals, both left and right, and sheared off two of the "caps" that seal the universal bearings.
[/B]

Scott,

It sounds to me like the u-joint cap(s) got snapped off. That Tow operator certainly should have known better. In any case, my understanding of the front axles (my third such truck) is that when in 2High, obviously the front axle is disconnected via the vacuum motor actuator on the axle and the transfer case is not engaged. HOWEVER, the driver side wheel, hub, stub axle and differential (partially) will still rotate. It has no choice, there is nothing to "disconnect" there. That is why the front diff is open and "loose", to rotate on one side, while the other side stays staionary or barely moves. This is the most cost effective way to disconnect the front axle while not using auto-hubs etc. Its a cost concern. Not DC's decision but a Dana Corp design sold to DC and others as the most cost effective solution. Personally, I wouldn't drive it unless I absolutely had to. Sorry Scott.

Todd


------------------
Mega Stealth 2001. 5 2500, 4X4, Black Sport Quadcab, Auto w/Mopar Performance Pan, 3. 54 anti, Tow/Camper group, Smittybuilt Step Bars, Autometer Pyro (pre),
transmission temp and 35 psi boost gauges in an Autometer triple pillar mount, Power Edge EZ, Lund Exterminator bug shield, PM tractor utility back
up lights, Mopar under rail bedliner, ARE K Series Cap, Pioneer 45DHE CD Stereo, Cobra CB, Custom on board air system w/2. 5 gal tank and
Big Honking Grovers under the front bumper!!

Pulls a 24 Foot 10K pounder enclosed toy box for the Datsun 510 Road Race Car. SCCA GT4 class

www.Wolfcreekracing.com

 

[Oasis-3]

Scott I hope you get it fixed soon and let us know just what got broken. This is yeat another reason I have that BIG hook on the front of my truck.
Good luck
Cliff

 

[Mopar-muscle]

scott , if the u joints are damaged you can't drive it , they spin all the time , things could get ugly .

get in there and take a good look to see what happened , its not that hard a job , just time consuming , everything should come apart without removing the spindle .

also scott , this is exactly why i plan to leave the stock lift pump and lines in place when i move a second pump rearward , piece of mind that i won't get stuck and have more damage done by someone not paying attention to what they are doing . flip a few levers , switch a wire and i'm back in business .

[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 05-22-2001). ]

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks for all the replies, gentlemen, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you (one of those days, again)

Anyhow, seems that the tow hooks sheared off the bearing caps ( one on the left front universal, one on the right), leaving the bearings exposed. The guy that towed my truck is actually a good friend of mine and owns a top notch body/ front end repair shop here in town. The truck will go to his shop as soon as I get the lift pump installed, until then, the truck is resting peacefully at my place of employment.

My biggest question now is why did the Mallory fail. The pump was installed exactly the way Mallory directs, i. e. , next to the fuel tank and slightly below, a pre-pump sediment filter was installed before the Mallory. The stock line (feed) was cut and the Mallory was spliced in using rubber fuel line. The Carter was removed from it's original location and that area was also re-spliced, using rubber fuel line. The "hot" wire, that powered the Carter pump, was extended back to the Mallory, to keep it's power control under the watchful eye of the ECM. My last fuel supply was from the same place that I have been getting diesel from since day one. They have a large trucking/bus company with their own tank and pumps on site. They also fuel all of the Twp. 's DPW diesels. I don't think a bad batch of fuel caused the problem. In hindsight, I have been getting some real erratic FP readings from the SPA lately, but was thinking more along the lines of a sender (electric) problem, due to the Cummins giving it a good amount of vibration, rather than a a lift pump issue. Whenever I received a FP erratic number, I pulled over, letting the turbo cool down, then shuting down the engine. I would then just bump the starter, the Mallory would kick in and the FP would read a rock solid 12 psi's. This has been going on for about one week prior to the failure.

The only other cause to the Mallory's failure that I can come up with is this. The Mallory is adjustable, via a hex set screw, to adjust it's psi's. When I got the SPA FP gauge installed, my readings were between 11-12 psi's, seemed to hunt bewtween the two at idle. I decided to turn it up a small amount, so that it read 12 psi's at idle and did not wander. I did this about 3 weeks ago, and I thought all was good. I was surfing Mallory's site last night, and found that they indicate that the pump is much happier at lower psi's, even though it's rated at 12 psi's/140 GPH. They also state to adjust the pump while it is running, I was unsure and adjusted it while the truck was off, i. e. , turn the hex in alittle, start the truck. Turn the truck off, turn the hex alittle, start the truck, etc. , until I received the psi's I wanted. My gauge was then a rock solid 12 at idle, though it sometimes wandered up to 13 when warm. Maybe that was the cause of the Mallory's demise. When I received the erratic readings I mentioned above, it was bounching from 11 psi's to 4 to 8 to 0 to 16, etc. , guess that was the clue, eh ? I attached a pic. of the Mallory install on my truck and a link to the Mallory FAQ's if anyone else is interested. Thanks again for your help. I will attempt to locate the reason for the failure myself, when I get the old pump out. If I can't find anything obvious, it's going back to Mallory for a diagnosis and repair. I'll post as soon as I find out what was wrong. Forgaot to add, the 4150 was not set up with a regulator as I believed that the bypass in the VP44 would handle the return. Actually I have to give credit where it's due, the original 4150 install was done by Mike at A. W. D. and I truly believe that it was done correctly.

Here's a link to some good FP info, check out what they say in regards to pressure, kinda goes against what we were thinking originally as to more is better, before we thought about volume Vs. pressure ...
http://www.centuryperformance.com/fuel. asp

Here's a pic. of the Mallory and pre-filter...

#ad


Scott W.




[This message has been edited by Bigsaint (edited 05-23-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

could be the wiring--run the next one thru a relay with a bigger wire to the pump--chris

 

[HVAC]

Saint, I don't think that extending the hot wire for the OEM pump is the way to supply power to the Mallory once you have relocated it. I think you would be better served by installing a relay for the oem circuit to trigger, in which case the power would flow via a new and larger circuit to deal with the increased draw the Mallory would create.

What gauge wire did you use to supply the Mallory?

I've had mine on since October and it's turned up to 15 psi. Still rockin' hard #ad


I agree with you, let's figure out what went wrong for the benefit of the others reading this.
_____________________________________________
Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[Bigsaint]

Nowel, I took a better look at the wiring coming from the splice, where the Carter was powered. Looks like the wire is either 12 or 14 Ga, no smaller than 14 Ga. though and I'm leaning towards 12. Anyway, if the Carter drew 4. 5 amps and the Mallory draws 5. 0 amps. @ 12 psi's, wouldn't even 14 ga wire be more than enough. Just thinking out loud, but with 110 volts, I believe 14 ga. wire will handle up to 15 amps. , no ? Also, if the wiring was a cause to the Mallory demise, wouldn't I have noticed a problem from the begining, rather than 3 months later ? I guess I won't know until I get the failed unit out and analysis is done. I'm really starting to wonder if the fact that I turned up the dead head screw with the pump off had something to due with the failure.

On a lighter note, my buddy is busting his butt to try to get the necessary parts and time to get my truck repaired (the universals) before the Holiday, time will tell but the new Mallory will go in on Saturday, rain,shine, snow, sleet, etc. Also, what happened to the other replies that were posted this A. M. ? I know that did not delete mine ? WTF!!!!!!!

Scott W.

 

[Un-Hemi]

Scott, my condolences.

That 'filter' in the photo... . does it have a filter element in it, or is it just a water separator? If all I had to go by was that photo, I would say that it was just a water trap, and does not have a filter element in it. Maybe it's just the angle that the photo was taken at... .

I went and had a look at the Century Performance site, and the info is sound, IMHO. Their example of using a 10psi pump regulated to 8 psi is a little weak; nobody I know would work with margins that small. Maybe Holley Dominators will handle 8psi, but most of the carbs I played with were happier with less. For example, my racer had a Holley GPH-110 in it, with a static pressure of 14psi, and I set the dead-head (never heard it called that before) regulator to 5psi so the needles in the Carter carbs wouldn't be swamped resulting in a flood of gas down into the manifold. That gave lots of overhead (14 - 5 = 9psi) to compensate for the pressure losses in the fuel system between the pump and the regulator at full demand. Never saw the fuel pressure drop from 5 psi unless I ran outa gas. Which I will NOT admit to having done! I have no recollection whatsoever of the incident(s)!

The Mallory site has some excellent graphs showing the relationship between free flow, no flow, GPH and pressure. They show the relationship between these parameters very well.

I am most interested in the autopsy (?) of your pump. It might be useful if you could measure the operating voltage at the replacement pump while it (and the engine) is running. I'm still of the opinion that the Mallory, with pre- and post- filters is the way to go, even knowing that gerotor pumps are *quite* intolerant of crud in the fuel.

I would not be comfortable using a relay to drive the Mallory. DC (that's not direct current) must have some reason for wanting to duty-cycle the pump during startup, so I would power the Mallory from the wire that went to the Carter. I would use *NO SMALLER* than #12 considering the length of the wire and its operating current. The closer to the alternator's output voltage the pump is, the better it will operate. Soldered connections are preferrable. A 2-volt drop in a 115 Volt circuit is of far less consequence than a 2-volt drop in a 14 volt circuit.



------------------
Tom Glover - VE7DQ, C-GWTG
99 QC SLT, LWB 4x2, ETC/DGP, Wht/Agate, etc.

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks Tom, sounds like good info. I did pick up a spool of 12 ga wire, while at the shop and I will compare it to the installed wire when I get to crawl under the truck again. I figure that, coupled with soldered connections will be cheap insurance, if nothing else. I will post the results of the Mallory analysis as soon as I have same. You are right about the pre-filter, no "filter" within, it's there to provide a trap for water and the idea behind it is to allow the sediment to drop to the bottom.

Scott W.

 

[Un-Hemi]

Yikes! Just might be that some crud didn't sink to the bottom! Murphy Rules! It would be prudent to install a good filter/water separator in there! I've been looking at some of the neat combination filters that Racor manufactures using a spin-on filter with a clear plastic sight bowl on the bottom. My local parts guy says they're not too bad on price, although I haven't checked any specific part numbers yet. I do have a Racor catalog.

The Mallory should have no problem pulling fuel through one of these filters, if that is a concern.

The Mallory pump is rebuildable; It should be possible to remove a plate and expose the gerotor. If you're comfortable with doing this, you might have a quick look before you send it back for warranty. If the gerotor is jammed, there's a good probability that the problem can be cleared. This is one instance where small supply wires would be of benefit, as they will limit the amount of current that can be supplied to the motor, preventing burnout. My choice would still be huge wires and a fuse, however.

**** By the way****, before doing anything else, if you haven't already done so, check the condition and connections on the ground wire of the pump. No ground will give you an apparent voltage reading at the pump, but no operation. The give-away will be a voltage reading on the negative (or black) wire *right* at the pump. It should be zero.

I hope this helps and that you get the truck running again soon. It's unfortunate that you're in the 'other' Vernon! Give the saints a scratch for me!

Tom

------------------
Tom Glover - VE7DQ, C-GWTG
99 QC SLT, LWB 4x2, ETC/DGP, Wht/Agate, etc.

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks again Tom. I received the new Mallory today and it came with some great instructions. Mallory recommends no smaller than 14 ga wire, I have at least that, and a 40 micron filter, that I don't have. This is pure speculation, but now I'm wondering if the pre-filter that I have allowed some debris to enter the pump and jamb the gerator. The Mallory instructions actually give the break down necessary to check for a jambed gerator, due to debris. Ain't that the cats a$$. When I changed my OEM fuel filter at 5200 miles, I had a fair amount of debris in the fuel filter canister. The Mallory and the pre-filter for same went in at 3200 miles. I'm going to check the ground and power source with a DVM, thanks to the advice of D. Dressler, and then replace the failed unit with the new, unless I find the ground to be at fault, which I'm doubting as it appears to be secure. I will then open up the Mallory, in a clean, hermedically sealed environment, of course #ad
, and see if I can find anything obvious to my un-trained eyes. If I don't find anything, it will go back to Mallory for a failure analysis and repair. I was thinking of picking up a in line fuel filter(like the kind they use on the gassers) and just plugging it into the line between the existing pre-filter and the mallory for cheap insurance, until I find the cause of the failure. What do you think ? Good idea or not ?

Scott W.

 

[Bigsaint]

p. s. , the saints say thanks for the thought, they drooled. Then again, they ALWAYS drool #ad
#ad
#ad
#ad


Scott W.

 

[Un-Hemi]

Scott, trundle down to your local UAP/NAPA store and ask to look at the following Wix part numbers: 33123 and 24309. The 24309 is a cast mount for the 33123, which is a metal screw-on fuel filter with a petcock on the bottom. Probably not that many buck$ down there in the Yew Ess of Ay. It's designed to filter diesel. Diesel can do strange things to stuff that isn't spec'd for it. Better to be safe, than sorry, that's what Mother used to say! What happens to that plastic thingie if it gets whacked by a rock or a phallen off phord phender?
By the way. Who let the dogs out?? #ad
#ad

Tom

------------------
Tom Glover - VE7DQ, C-GWTG
99 QC SLT, LWB 4x2, ETC/DGP, Wht/Agate, etc.

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks again, Tommy T. I doubt a rock or Ford fender would hit it, I'm more concerned about a rampant turbo bolt.

I let the dogs out and it's more like "Who scooped the dogs crap". Once again, it's all me. #ad


Scott W.

 

[dresslered]

Hey Bigsaint-
If Mallory is truely stating that you MUST use nothing smaller than 14 Ga wire, then the thing is definitely pulling more than the 5. 0 amps that you had indicated (maybe they are just being cautious and accounting for extremely long runs). There might also be huge surges when the pump is initially energized. Remember that you have 18-Ga wire running from the ECM before it is converted to your 12 or 14 Ga. I now have a new concern: Your ECM might not be designed to supply the current that the Mallory requirs. In this case, the 18-Ga should operate a relay which will then switch on/off a separately run source.

I still think that your problem will be found with the pump itself, but I would be really cautious against overdriving the ECM. When you said that the Mallory only draws 5. 0-amps I considered this to be adequate since the original is spec'ed to draw 12. I believe that the ECM fuse (#3) is fused at 20-amps, but I have seen too many times that the expensive device (ECM) will blow first to save the fuse! #ad


[This message has been edited by dresslered (edited 05-25-2001). ]