Need Injectors...soon, like Friday?

[Cattletrkr]

A few random thoughts

What would you guess to be your overall average mileage over the life of the truck? I'm fairly certain there aren't too many trucks out there that have burned more fuel than I have in the miles I've driven. I would guess I have averaged between 10 and 11mpg. Along the way there has been a few thousand gallons of biodiesel, a few bad batches of #2 (plugged filters) and never a WIF light. I rarely catch the fuel when I dump the drain, but I've never found anything that looks like anything other than fuel.

Years before I ever owned a diesel pickup I was told that if you don't tow with one, you shouldn't have one. They're made to work and if they're not working, they're not happy.

Maybe once a week or so I'll run 'er up to 3000rpm just to keep things loose. Once a month or so I'll let the governor stop the acceleration. Not sure if that's a good idea or not, but it seems to have worked so far.

Dad used to have a 95 chevy 6. 5l. Those things have a recommended injector life of 100K. Not recommended by GM as far as I know, but by the GM sites (dieselpage or place or whatever it was. ) I'm starting to wonder if these $4-600 apiece injectors are "throw-away". I would love to get a new set (or rebuilds) but I can't in any way justify that.

It does suck that you've taken such good care of your truck and had this problem. However it does make me feel better about not spending the money on a FASS or GDP kit or ???:-laf
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[steved]

My overall mileage is probably somewhere around 17mpg.

The reason I have one is for the miles... the last one had 200k when I traded... dad's has 280k. I can't afford to trade trucks ever few years, but obviously the endurance of the newer Cummins is in question. So I have a reason to own one, whether it tows or not...

As for the FASS... this problem makes me wonder how much sooner it would have happened without it...

steved

 

[lmills]

I'm still a little quirky about seeing the water in the fuel filter. Are the separators not doing an adequate job??? I mean come'on Steve has multiple stage filtration with numerous separators and filters and the last filter in line still had water in it. Granted I am sure it was probably a bad batch of fuel that caused the problems, but you would think it would have been caught before it got that far.

 

[steved]

I'm conjecturing at this point, but I'm wondering if the ULSD is holding the water in suspension "better" than LSD? And that 1 micron filter is causing the water to coalesce in that filter?

Someone mentioned a venting issue... my vents are open and working. The roll-over valves have been addressed, so there is no way water is getting into them. Besides, I go through enough fuel that there should not be a condensation issue.

A water separator doesn't actually physically "separate" water from the fuel, but rather the fuel runs under pressure and higher volume in a smaller line, and when that same fuel passes from a smaller, high volume flow into a larger, low volume flow, the water drops out because it is heavier. There is nothing actively "stripping" water out of the fuel, besides gravity.

That is the principle my water knockout uses... a 3/8" line from the aux tank comes into the side of a piece of 4" PVC (capped on each end). The flow drops when the fuel encounters the 4-inch "pipe" from the side and the water drops to the bottom while the water-free fuel is drawn off the top. I may revisit this idea and remake the knockout... enter from the end and flow lengthwise... pull off the top (side) at the opposite end... install the WIF sensor in the bottom of the deal.

The other thing that bothers me is the fact that I siphon most of my fuel from the aux tank... so it isn't like I'm pumping at a fast rate all the time... the water should not make it past the water knockout, although it is quite obvious it does.

I know there are water-blocking filters out there... I'm getting to the point of either running one of those, or buying another Gulf Coast Filter to filter the fuel from the aux tank (removing everything but the pump) (the cellulose in the paper towels would absorb the water).

And again, I don't think I'm getting more water than anyone else... I think I'm just able to see it...

steved

 

[betterthanstock]

Steve, any filter is better at separating out water than just a slowing down of the fuel flow. I would seriously look into relocating the stock filter, with its built-in heater and water drain, ahead or in place of your current water separator. There are many people running the stock filter near the half million mile mark on these trucks.

 

[steved]

Steve, any filter is better at separating out water than just a slowing down of the fuel flow. I would seriously look into relocating the stock filter, with its built-in heater and water drain, ahead or in place of your current water separator. There are many people running the stock filter near the half million mile mark on these trucks.

So you're saying that the OE system with a pump between the tank and the filter (with an at best 5 micron filter) is better than a water knockout, secondary filter, and the FASS???



I have not one but TWO water separators and TWO filters (the first is a 10 micron filter and then the 1 micron FASS filter) in my system... and except when I have had my slide-in camper loaded (which was rare, and is now gone), it has been used exclusively for a year.



My setup should be more than capable of removing all water from the fuel... and again, just because others have NOT seen water, doesn't mean it hasn't passed right through their system (coming back to the pump ahead of the filter) without warning. I have shown this can happen with the OE fuel delivery setup.



I don't think water caused my injector problem in its entirety, my point was to make people aware that if a system like mine can't catch it all, the OE system doesn't stand a chance.



IMHO, this is my thoughts about my injector issues:



If lmills is correct, the CP-3 should have been toast as bad as the injectors looked. It is fine, HOWEVER, it was replaced at around 33k because the original was leaking at the wiring harness.



I installed the FASS around 58k as a "preventative measure" to ensure no lift pump problems and further protect the delicate common rail fuel system. I have changed filters twice on the FASS... once around 100k, the next was at 144k. The first filter was cut open and contained a little bit of water (beads), however it had been fed primarily LSD, not ULSD... the filter looked very clean. The second filter was subjected to a batch of water from the aforementioned Flying J... and the water lmills drained from that filter could have been residual from that time (the aux tank/filters were installed about a month later)... we did not cut this filter apart. I don't see why a hydraulic filter with a 80 psi media breakthrough pressure would have caused problems on a system not capable of those pressures (and I never had a loss of pressure or low pressure).



I have also ran heavy on additive... either Howe's, Power Service, or Lucas (mostly Howe's early, and PS later). I have ran additive in almost every tank (you could probably count on one hand how many didn't get additive). Now, I also did this with my 99... and the VP-44 survived to 201k, even after being subjected to a failed LP for several hundred miles (201k is when I traded it for the current truck). Since I had good results running additive with the 99, I continued running additive with this truck. However, upon further research, it appears this might not be wise with additized ULSD...



So in closing, I feel that most of the wear occurred early on, the FASS probably prolonged the time of death, and possibly the ULSD (combined with additive) might have not helped as much as thought. And lastly, the truck did have 143k miles on the clock, which with 4. 10s means a cruising rail pressure of between 15000 psi and 17000 psi for hours on end (as in 15+ hours at any one time).



My current game plan is to run fuel from a single station locally (1200 mile range), and then probably revert to a single "truckstop" brand of fuel while on the road. I also have decided to probably not use additives (unless I feel it is needed for cold weather). And I'll be changing filters more often (even thought I doubt that had anything to do with it).



And all this is what I feel might have happened... do I know for sure? Nope. Does anyone else?? Doubtful. All we can do is look at the facts and draw a best guess conclusion. We can only look at the problems I had, and either do the best to prevent it down the road to our own rig or have the knowledge of what could happen.



I think this thread has been informative... I hope others find it so also...



steved

 

[SDunkle600]

I am still curious about being asked about running 2 cycle oil? Did you happen to get an answer on that one? I just started to run it as a result of the additive study as opposed to PS and MMO mixed.

 

[betterthanstock]

So you're saying that the OE system with a pump between the tank and the filter (with an at best 5 micron filter) is better than a water knockout, secondary filter, and the FASS???



I have not one but TWO water separators and TWO filters (the first is a 10 micron filter and then the 1 micron FASS filter) in my system

What I am wondering is whether the separator is separate from the filter.

A water separator that has no filter appears to be lower maintenance, but on a truck, with vibration/shaking the emulsion may not be as calm as would be necessary to remove the water. (just a guess)



When fuel passes thru a filter it coalesces out the emulsion. Do the filters have water drains on them? If not, water can build up inside, and pass thru the paper (a larger quantity at once).



The other is the issue of heating. The stock filter has a self-regulating heater, that also helps at water removal.

And last, an aluminum tank can form water condensate from the air if you allow hot fuel to return to the tank. Some diesels, including the Sprinter, have a fuel cooler (like an oil cooler) on the fuel return line. Less condensation would form that way. I'm not saying to put one of those on, just wondering how you plumbed the auxiliary. May not be a good idea to circulate that fuel thru the cold tank.

 

[betterthanstock]

I am still curious about being asked about running 2 cycle oil? Did you happen to get an answer on that one? I just started to run it as a result of the additive study as opposed to PS and MMO mixed.

I run non-detergent 30W oil, 1/2 quart per tank. No additives to worry about. I can tell the difference when I forget to use it.

 

[lmills]

look familiar Steve? :-laf

 

[BillGotthelf]

Ok I give up it is either a 60's lava lamp at the end of a metal tube or... ... ... .

 

[lmills]

LOL, it was the bucket I emptied his fuel filter into. Look at all the purdy colors. LOL

 

[MMeier]

I run non-detergent 30W oil, 1/2 quart per tank. No additives to worry about. I can tell the difference when I forget to use it.

In what regard?

 

[JJPage]

I am still curious about being asked about running 2 cycle oil? Did you happen to get an answer on that one? I just started to run it as a result of the additive study as opposed to PS and MMO mixed.

So ... . still wating for the 2 cycle oil ?

 

[betterthanstock]

In what regard?

No worries about the additives, like zinc, gunking up the injector.

Or do you mean how I can tell? It's quieter at idle.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Steve,

Did you ever get any codes when the injector went out.

 

[Mhannink]

i would look at your pushrods first that high of milage and i dont know what youve done for maintanece but the valves should be adjusted often if you havent i bet you bent a push rod. good idea to check it better a 4 dollar part the a 4k part

 

[steved]

i would look at your pushrods first that high of milage and i dont know what youve done for maintanece but the valves should be adjusted often if you havent i bet you bent a push rod. good idea to check it better a 4 dollar part the a 4k part

What??







steved

 

[steved]

Steve,



Did you ever get any codes when the injector went out.

Absolutely no codes... I checked them with a scanner as soon as I parked it.



steved

 

[steved]

So ... . still wating for the 2 cycle oil ?

I think he is trying to put a cause-relationship between 2-stroke and injector failure... basically looking to see if / what 2 stroke is doing (if anything).



steved