Need to figure this out now

[MarkEkberg]

As far as I know fuel is good quality. I buy from two places who go through a bunch of it. Filters are changed once a year when I do my oil change. Not many miles a year put on her now. I have changed the FCA, but not the HP sensor on the rail. Here is everything I have been paying attention to and giving the tech this weekend.

1. When cold (started at 0, now it is up to 40 degrees) it will not fire without ether. No smoke at all comes out the tail pipe. Injectors are not firing. Batteries are new. A quick 2 second shot to the air filter and then crank for 5-7 seconds and it fires fine, and then will fire fine all day.
2. If batteries are on a charger overnight it will start due to faster rpm during cranking.
3. Cranking fuel PSI seems to be in the 5K range on scanner, but it climbs slowly after 4000 lbs or so.
4. At idle, warm, the fuel rail PSI seems to jump all over the place. Not sure if that is normal?
5. When warm if parked with nose high it will not fire. If warm and nose down it fires fine. I have not checked feed fuel pressure, but I am wondering if I am looking at a failed tank pump? I am figuring the HPFP can’t draw fuel from the tank well?
6. FCA is new, but I have not replaced the sensor on HP fuel rail.
7. There is a surge under off idle applications. Easiest to see when in 2nd gear, crack throttle and hold steady. Truck will surge every 3 seconds or so. I am figuring this has to do with the PSI in fuel rail being all over the place at idle.

 

[Herman8r]

What is the difference or gain by installing the BBI -1 injectors vs the
.5 injectors.

Good info here!!

 

[cerberusiam]

1. When cold (started at 0, now it is up to 40 degrees) it will not fire without ether. No smoke at all comes out the tail pipe. Injectors are not firing. Batteries are new. A quick 2 second shot to the air filter and then crank for 5-7 seconds and it fires fine, and then will fire fine all day.

That is indicative of injector problems.

2. If batteries are on a charger overnight it will start due to faster rpm during cranking.

That is indicative of weak batteries. However if they are new as stated above maybe starter is dragging?

3. Cranking fuel PSI seems to be in the 5K range on scanner, but it climbs slowly after 4000 lbs or so.

It takes about 3000 psi to get the ECM to want to fire the injectors. If you are seeing 5k and no fire, you have other electrical issues.

4. At idle, warm, the fuel rail PSI seems to jump all over the place. Not sure if that is normal?

Not normal, maximum 500-600 psi bounce is all you should see at an idle.

5. When warm if parked with nose high it will not fire. If warm and nose down it fires fine. I have not checked feed fuel pressure, but I am wondering if I am looking at a failed tank pump? I am figuring the HPFP can’t draw fuel from the tank well?

Given the LP is good and there are no leak in the canister and the canister screen is not plugged that should not happen. The CP-3 will draw some fuel but not thru an in-tank pump that is seized or failing to get enough fuel to pump.






Lots more fuel. The stage I's are the equivalent of a 100+ HP injector.

What is the difference or gain by installing the BBI -1 injectors vs the
.5 injectors.

Good info here!!

 

[TomCseh]

what is meant by nose up or nose down ?

 

[rlj1960]

2003 and re-built Injectors.

I have a 2003 with 236K on it. Purchased it 2 yeas ago with 154K on it. Ran perfectly in cold and warm until I hit the 205K mark, then the hard cold starts started. I checked with several mechanics and they said I am not getting one of the 3 components needed for a diesel to fire up; Heat, fuel or air. I replaced the air filter, lift pump on the back of the filter assembly, the grid Heater element, the batteries, the Grid Heater relays and after $500 of parts replacement, I still had a devil of a time getting the old girl to fire up cold. The only way she'd fire was if it was over 50 degree F or if I plugged it in. I finally cried "uncle" and took it to a dealer that I trust. $100 later, they ran a flow test on the injectors. I was told that normal operation is 108 ml of fuel per minute. My truck did 380 ml in 30 seconds. Bottom Line: My fuel Injectors were toast. I did more research on the injectors and chose AutoLine rebuilt Bosch injectors from Rockauto.com, new OEM Fuel Tubes/atomizers and dug into the project. Took me about 10 hours from start to finish. One note here: USE ONLY CUMMINS FUEL LINES!!!! GB Remanufacturing do NOT work. They loosen up, leak and just cause all kinds of fits. I cleaned up my ORIGINAL fuel lines, sprayed Gumout Carb/Choke cleaner through them and chased compressed air through the tubes to evacuate all liquid, replaced old fuel filter with an OEM filter and fired it up. The other thing I did was adjust the Exhaust and intake valves. Intake I did at 0.008 and the exhaust at 0.01. Now, after a 10 second heat up at 15 degrees F or colder the old girl comes to life in nothing flat. I've put over 4,000 miles on these and they are incredible! Smooth idle and acceleration. Absolutely no black smoke on start up or full-throttle acceleration. The nozzles are original spray. Being I have as many miles as I have on it, I Opted NOT to go with higher HP injectors. Hope this helps....and Good Luck!!

 

[Tuesdak]

what is meant by nose up or nose down ?

Parking on a hill where the nose of the truck and engine is higher than the fuel tank or parking with the nose of the truck downhill where the engine is lower than the fuel tank. This is useful for finding air leaks that allow a fuel system to drain back to the tank in nose uphill parking. The drained system has to re-prime and get the air out making the first start of the day longer. Parking nose down doesn't allow the fuel system to drain back to the tank. Some 'forgotten' diesels have more trouble with air leaks than others.

What is the difference or gain by installing the BBI -1 injectors vs the
.5 injectors.

Good info here!!

Will BB i .5 injectors Pads emission snap test in stock 03 truck?

BBI stage 0.5 is for stock tunes and passing snap emissions. I forget where there was a bunch of posted results of BBI stage 0.5's passing snap testing with stock tunes. Stage 1 BBI's appear to require a tune to pass snap testing emissions. In my case I am already modified: Cam, BB Stage 3 turbo, GDP Intake, with a Smarty Touch. (The mods just creep up...) So on the recommendation of a tuner I went with stage 1 BBI's over the 0.5's and then had a custom tune (Using Smarty's UDC) written for my truck. All I had to get was the Smarty as UDC wasn't required for me to buy because the tuner has it. I am limited by the SBC clutch HP/TQ rating and Evans filled cooling system on grades. However I am happy with a relativity smoke free tune that supports the mods I have. (Don't like coal rolling and don't want to Soot Coat my RV.)

 

[MarkEkberg]

Dropping off tomorrow AM. Should know something by the afternoon, and will let everyone know. I was able to speak with the tech on Friday and told him all the things I have noticed.

 

[Herman8r]

Thanks for the info.
Sounds like new OEM tubes are recommended when installing new injectors.
What adverse effect if any with the BBI 1 injectors? Is the "tune" easy to install with the Smarty?

 

[MarkEkberg]

I think I will do tubes as well. I took the tuner out of it this morning, man o man truck has zero power now. Either my injectors are really junk or I really for used to the power.

 

[cerberusiam]

ALWAYS install new tubes with new injectors. The cross over tubes have edge filter built into the tips that break up and rust or FOD that gets that far and under the high pressure sit deform the filters and the inside of the tube impacting fuel flow. Even new tubes on old injectors will help a lot if they are plugged or deformed.

 

[TCDiesel]

1st I was so fed up with the Aftermarket Tubes Its required to reuse your OEM or purchase our In House manufactured Tubes.

The inserts that you see on the inlet side of the Tube is commonly called a filter, IMO its a diverter. Even if you remove the inserts the tone of the engine will change at Idle.

Just like any injector thread some good info and some misleading info.

Virgins Injector are extremely rare to purchase, BOSCH has two Branded Injectors Virgins and In House reconditioned , All have designated Part #s..But do to tariff agreements its the origin that counts, BMS (Bosch Motor Sports) has contaminated the Market with all their cross breeding, and Molested Injectors...BMS cannot purchase or sell OEM products, The agreement is ALL INJECTORS sold by BMS are OEM Nozzle less, So they cannot assemble with OEM Nozzle thats What I call cross breeding. Some Seller have place China Nozzles on BMS stuff, TC sells ONLY BOSCH OEM Virgins or totally reconditioned BY Bosch. TC Diesel distributes throughout North America. this requires TC Diesel to re-label / Box the BOSCH OEM Injector. TC Carry's the Warranty, Bosch Has agreements With TC Diesel, NOT the end user like over the counter sale have.

IMO use caution when buying, If you were to check our Web site we ONLY sell BOSCH OEM distributed By OEM license Partner. IMO Bosch allowing BMS to sell to the NONE race sales (Original agreement) has created this mess and the sellers of these NONE OEM products have mis-led the general public claming they are Selling OEM products.

Those cross breaded nozzles spray out side of the bowl, increase fuel oil Dilutions, cause Ring and piston wear etc over time.

Do OAs and you will find this to be True.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Well.......... Truck was officially diagnosed with too much return flow from injectors.

As close to New Bosch as I could get is what I bought through shop who can buy them cheaper than I can. Seeing I am on a time crunch I am letting shop install (against my better judgment). Should be done today or tomorrow.

Hoping for the best on this one.

 

[TCDiesel]

Did they test the return rates in the engine, at idle Per minute 60ml is perfect, 61-80ml is ok, 81-100ml is long crank 100ml+is either start or NO start. Did they check the LV? Is this shop installing OEM or BMS? Hoping is a bank account future withdraw, YOU need to Know what your getting.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Thanks TC,

I do trust this shop. I will be stopping by tonight and getting all those numbers for the return rates.

 

[TCDiesel]

Many shops are passing on BMS as Bosch OEM They are NOT, BMS is NOT allowed to sell OEM Injectors. So they swap to nozzle's to unknown origin, Marine ,Sac ETC, The owner's does NOT realize the spray patterns are NOT OEM until the engine has problems deformed Piston shattered rings, This take time and mileage, its slow death ,but make NO mistake its deathly over the course of time and Miles.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Talked to shop. Return flow filled a quart in 45 seconds! He took video because he could mot believe it was that bad.

 

[TCDiesel]

That's impossible did they cut the return form the CP3 into another container and measure that. The Back of head spec's can reach 350ml in 60 second at idle when the FCA is unplugged. Their would be NO combustion fuel at that return rate.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yeah, that is not a valid return rate. Something wasn't blocked out, likely the CP-3 return.

 

[MGreer]

I would have the tech that ran the test go over the procedure he used. He has to isolate the cp3 return flow from the injector return flow. This requires a 9012 fitting in the back of the filter housing for the cp3 return. The return hose to the tank just below the filter housing needs to be disconnected and collected in another container, this is the injector return.
A 9013 fitting should be in the prv to make sure the prv isn't popping off.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Need to head back there today. Truck started great with no grid heater at 20 degrees. I let it warm up to operating temp, shut it down, and heard a hissing sound from under truck. It is the catch basin for CCV that was extended to rear of truck. Started back up and there was significant pressure right away. I opened the oil fill and there was pressure there too....... Now I am worried.

Rail pressure was 1200 max when diagnosing. On my receipt says return rate max 180ml in 60 sec. Test result 1 qt in 45 seconds. Fuel return line now new as it broke.

Injectors are Stock Bosch. I asked him to confirm numbers as posted here. Said he did when ordering and again when received.

Should have done this myself.........