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Competition New Carli suspension VS kore suspension

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KOREs reputation is fading



I dunno about that. I remember "THE" thread a while back when T-Rex first was mentioned on TDR (racing suspension is here!!). Even if Kore is doing these things, one has to remember the amount of time that Kent spent on TDR explaining the sytem, and its logic to the readers/prospective buyers. He explained everything very clearly. And in the Past Kent has been extremely helpful to all questions asked of him. Im not saying what KORE is doing is ok, but I will reserve judgement until I hear straight from the horses mouth.



HOWEVER, I am kinda ticked about the price increase of the KORE stuff. I was in the process of building my own system when I heard about T-Rex. I sent all the stuff back (except the special made coils-I had re-sell those) just to purchase the T-rex stuff. I saved for the Race/King, then shortly after the prices just started rising. Heck, the Race systems started out in price almost what the chase system is now.....



Sorry for the long winded pointless post... .....



--Jeff
 
I'm got the KORE Pace system, and I am going to stick with a BAJA "PROVEN" system. I may not get off-road often, I may not drive real fast, but I'll know what I have under my truck will do the job. Nomex suit on.



Tom
 
We had a KORE rep,Greg Boardman,Carli suspensions Sage Carli along with Victor who enginneered both shock towers in one place. High desert diesel round up. Everybody had the oppertunity to see the products and talk to the involved people(kent not in attendance?). Victor it was nice to see you again. What a guy!! We also had another variation on a Ram suspension with steel shock towers from another TDR member SLORENZ sorry Sean I forgot your company name. Victor actually was wearing a tshirt from SLORENZ to welcome the competition. Now when I have the funds available to upgrade the 2nd Gen truckthe decision will be a bit tougher. I can tell you I like the way Victor does things,when I asked him what about us 3rd genners that need more room for an upgraded turbo (b-1's wont fit a KORE tower)He has a new tower ready for us. Thanks to Sage Carli for bringing Victor back.



Bob
 
LORENZindustries.com



More to come tommarrow, along with our official TDR intro. Im just too spent tonight to spill the beans. 3hr drive and 2 days in the sun has me ready for a little shut eye. Things couldn't have gone better at the High Diesel Round up for us!
 
LORENZindustries.com

Lorenz said:
LORENZindustries.com



More to come tommarrow, along with our official TDR intro. Im just too spent tonight to spill the beans. 3hr drive and 2 days in the sun has me ready for a little shut eye. Things couldn't have gone better at the High Diesel Round up for us!



Here is another good suspension for our trucks. At a good price.

Good luck to you :D :D :D

David :D
 
Bob4x4 said:
Dave you scared me tonight... ... ... ..... I never saw you truck pulling at 70 mph before :-laf



Bob





Bob

I wish I had a empty beer can like you to pull at 70 mph :-laf :-laf :-laf

David :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf
 
Bob4x4 said:
Dave you scared me tonight... ... ... ..... I never saw you truck pulling at 70 mph before :-laf



Bob





Bob,

The two best of show Trophys gave me added 150 horse power :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

David :D :D
 
Bob4x4 said:
I can tell you I like the way Victor does things,when I asked him what about us 3rd genners that need more room for an upgraded turbo (b-1's wont fit a KORE tower)He has a new tower ready for us. Bob



That is NOT true. I've ran a B-1 on my '04 with KORE suspension for 6 months now, with no issues.
 
blake underwood said:
That is NOT true. I've ran a B-1 on my '04 with KORE suspension for 6 months now, with no issues.

That is good to hear,I measured mine and it would not fit. I have an 05 with the KORE and put a b1 on an 04 and had to notch the factory tower on that one. I had no more room to reclock the turbo, :confused:



Bob
 
Bob4x4 said:
That is good to hear,I measured mine and it would not fit. I have an 05 with the KORE and put a b1 on an 04 and had to notch the factory tower on that one. I had no more room to reclock the turbo, :confused:



Bob



B1 - I had no clearance issues with mine either.
 
Gents,



Sorry I missed the show. I had been on the East Coast for the last five days.



Dave,



What may seem unsporting to you may actually be something completely different.



Almost 30 years ago I was rabbit hunting with my father out in the California desert. I was pretty young and the basic tenets of hunting that he had taught me were still fresh in my mind - good rules like, "don't shoot what you're not going to eat. " and "don't ever waste a round - because you may need it later. " As we walked through the desert he suddenly fed both barrels to a rabbit that had been hiding behind some scrub brush. This technique was something new to me because normally we would flush them out and shoot them as they ran. As I went to collect the carcass I felt a little sorry for the rabbit because he didn't even get a sporting chance. As I bent to pick it up my dad said, "Leave that one there. " Since this seemingly violated every code he had taught me, I asked him why he would waste not just one, but two shells on a rabbit that we weren't even going to eat. He told me to take a good look at it. The dead rabbit was skinny, weak and sickly. He went on to explain that if you eat a rabbit like that you could get sick - and if you let it live and reproduce it could pollute the gene pool, potentially affecting the entire area’s rabbit population. Then he cut the rabbit open and showed me a black worm that was squirming inside its neck, a parasite that was as big as my thumb. "So why did you give him both barrels at once?" I asked. He said, “Diseased rabbits are weak, so they don't usually run and pit their speed against your marksmanship; they hide behind the brush and hope predators don't see them. Sometimes it takes two shells to penetrate the brush. ”



Short-term actions can have long-term consequences.



In December of 1941, the U. S. and Japan were negotiating for peace in the Pacific. Japanese diplomats were smiling in our faces while secretly mounting a surprise attack. Their attack resulted in the loss of 2500 American lives and 1100 wounded – on American soil. Their short-term deception provided what they thought would be a long term victory. Intel told us that Japanese cities were constructed primarily of wood. Soon we were running continuous night sorties - B-29’s dropped countless tons of incendiary bombs within the Empire’s borders. The ensuing firestorms leveled 67 cities and killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese citizens. Two nuclear bombs were the coup de grace (or the cherry on top – depending on how you look at it). Had there been a formal declaration of war, things may have been different for the Japanese. For example, we may have used a more traditional amphibious assault against a strategically significant part of their coast. But they annoyed the United States with their cowardice. In addition, they had also made the mistake of building their homes out of wood – long before starting a war.



Lessons like these forged the way I think. These ideas were further refined by a little green book called "FMFM 1" and another little book written by a guy named Sun Tzu.



The bottom line is this: The greatest joy in Kroeker’s life is combat. Whether it’s combat against a clearly-defined adversary, altitude, the elements, rough terrain, high speeds, or business – it’s all combat, and I love every second of it.



So far, I haven’t learned a combat technique that wasn’t directly applicable to the business world – from “herd and burn,” to “bracketing then firing for effect” to “low-level ingress” to “integrated fields of fire” to “non-geometric defense” to “time on target. ” It’s cold, heartless, and efficient – and it all works. Proper employment of these and many other principles lead to tactical superiority, something that has nothing to do with pity.
 
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Technical superiority is another thing.



It takes a lot effort (and money) to make the best stuff. Sometimes external vendors have to be eliminated due to poor QA, the inability to supply product on time, resistance to advancement or refusal to accept responsibility for errors. Sometimes internal personnel have to be shifted out of the picture due to integrity violations, poor work ethic, undependability, etc. Every product or personnel change KORE has made has cost money and reduced profit margins. But the benefit goes to the consumer because the product just gets better and better. KORE has six new products that will be released after the first of the year. None of them are even remotely similar to anything else ever offered for Dodge trucks. This is relentless loyalty to the product – relentless innovation, and relentless pursuit of perfection.



As I see the battlefield unfolding, it’s amusing for me to watch “camps” forming and alliances being established. It’s very predictable seeing which person (or personality type) goes where or says what. It’s also interesting to read claims of whose intellectual property belongs to whom. Who was the originator? Who deserves what and why? What’s fair and what’s unfair? People may express a lot of opinions, but the proof is in the performance – performance that can be measured empirically by sales, customer satisfaction, growth etc. The fact is that bad stuff, sold by bad people won’t sell for long.



Just a moment ago I received a call from the owner of Lowrenz Industries. He says straight up, “Thanks for creating a high-performance suspension market for Dodge Ram trucks. I want you to know I will soon be introducing a Dodge suspension system. I’m going to use Sway Away shocks. My shock mount is made from steel. I looked at your patent and it doesn’t seem to infringe. What do you think?” I get on the net and take a look – yep – it’s different. I guess it does different things. So I tell him, “You’re good to go. There’s plenty of market. Let’s work together to help educate others about the benefits of advanced suspension. I wish you great success. ” The point is – that’s straight up man talk - dignified, courageous and noble – good show of character. Seems like the kind of guy you could get into some air combat with, run out of ammo, exchange salutes and fly back to your respective country. Like me, he’s a TDR member. We made a pact never to get into arguments and to try to prevent immature or undignified discussion from our clients/customers. We used the “transmission wars” as an example of what we should never allow to happen. He’s seems like a solid guy. Expect to hear more from him in the future.



Currently, for various reasons, all competing products serve as tools to drive knowledgeable, discerning customers right to KORE. Since KORE is technology-driven, not price-point driven, the only way anyone can compete with us is by either selling an inferior product, i. e. parts cost less = lower quality/performance or limited infrastructure = poor customer service, no growth, low inventory, no new parts, no advertising.



We encourage independent competition - besides being fun, it helps educate people. KORE also respects our competitors because they increase awareness of principles we’re trying to perpetuate – such as “long travel” is better than “high lift” and reservoir shocks are better than twin-tube shocks. These are important concepts. As more companies adopt this thinking the larger the illuminated market will become. Then it’s just a question of which suspension system fulfills performance or budget requirements.



Imagine the first TDR off-road rally. A good-natured event that could happen a couple of years from now where go-fast off-road guys can get together and do just that – go fast off-road – all with different suspension systems from different companies. Could be really fun. After some hard-core off-road we could have a big barbeque and geek out about nitrogen pressure, droop travel and flutter-stack valving.



Within the next 18 months two large lift kit companies will introduce Dodge suspension systems that will target the market KORE developed. They will distribute suspension systems that will look similar and make big performance claims. They’ll cost less and they’ll probably work pretty well – or at least well enough. Their leaf springs will be made in India and their shocks will have remote reservoirs. They will make claims of “long travel” etc. A lot of people will buy this stuff. But those people weren’t going to buy KORE anyway, so we don’t care. Rolex doesn’t target the guy with Timex performance requirements. Both watches tell time, and to some that’s all that matters -but one will continue to do so when it’s -30 F at 23,000 feet on a mountain in Nepal or 120 feet below the surface of South China Sea, you’re in a cave, and navigating by the second hand and fin-count (I know this because my watch has been on my wrist in both places). In both situations you’re either hypoxic or narced – you can’t exactly think straight and correct timing can make the difference between living and dying. The Timex won’t perform in these situations and there will be consequences – but it will tell you with nearly 100% accuracy when the next episode of “Friends” comes on or when it’s time to take your frozen burrito out of the oven. One timepiece you hand down to your son (or is given to him by a chaplain after you buy the farm) the other you throw away because it’s inconvenient to change the battery (or it melts around your wrist in the JP-5 fireball and becomes part of your closed-casket ceremony).



Just depends on what your performance requirements are.



So, as I wipe a tear from my eye for any KORE installers/dealers who make the mistake of showing disloyalty, I also shout out encouragement to any and all who want to compete independently. Bring it on.



Just don’t do it from inside my camp.



If you do, the Rules of Engagement instantly change. You are not a competitor; you fall into another category – and you will be dealt with as such – harshly, swiftly and from many angles – not because you or your products are a threat, but because you are a bad example of the species.



Competition breeds strength. I firmly believe that the strongest, smartest, most passionate and most loyal always dominate and thrive while the weak, greedy and morally corrupt slowly crawl back into their holes.



I'm old fashioned; I believe that the good guys always win.



Time will tell who the good guys really are.



Best Regards,



Kent Kroeker
 
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All I can say is WoW! You're the man Kent- HARDKORE!



-Could not get a hold of you about the FOX SHOX this week, so I called Greg. He said he's hookin' up w/you this week and will getter done.
 
Kent,



I have to disagree with you. I also am a hunter and was taught by the best. I guess you can say I have old fashioned values and I stick to them. We all are entitled to our opinions but I think your making a mistake by doing what your doing. I tried to call you a couple times but got no answer. But I sure would like to understand your side of this mess. Can't comment a whole lot now because I have the mediator on my rear end. Give me a call and we'll shoot the breeze.

Let the chips fall where they may.



David :D :D
 
Per the guidelines I'm shutting this thread down:



5. 1. The TDR Discussion Forums are not an appropriate forum for emotionally charged discussion between manufacturers, distributors, dealers, shops and/or users. These forums are intended to be technical resources for members interested in learning more about the proper care and maintenance of their trucks. All Vendors will refrain from making direct, emotionally charged, posts to and/or about competitors. All Vendor posts must be civil and technically oriented. If Vendors wish to compare products with competitors, use generic references (i. e. oiled element air filter; as opposed to Amsoil, AFE, etc. ).



As we always do in threads like this we give each vendor 1 chance to voice their side of the story. If Carli wishes to post their side of the story they can send it to me and I will post it up for them.
 
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