New detectors or ?? along interstate

[Blakers]

The state of Ohio has been installing some kind of new detectors along I-90 in the NE part of the state. Has anyone noticed these and are they in other parts of the country too?



They consist of a white box mounted on a pole with a solar panel. The box has a slit in the side pointed toward the highway. Most are installed in pairs - one on either side of the road. There's about 5 or 6 on either side in a 30 mile stretch.



Anyone know what these are for?



Thanks,

 

[DIESELMAN]

Do they point straight across the road or into the flow of traffic?



Are there loops on the road? Is that stretch a Toll Way?



Most of those are for traffic, ie, speed, monitoring, some are for I-Pass, Toll Collection enforcement and similar systems. The ones near intersections with a PVC tube about 3' above ground are for air quality, the taller ones may have a sniffer for Ozone or NOx measurement.



Traffic Loop sensor units get data are like this...



http://www.ai.eecs.uic.edu/GCM/dan-ryan.html



and you can find pages like this with links to the systems



http://www.ai.eecs.uic.edu/GCM/ExpresswayData.html



The detectors are usually Inductive loop, thats the squares cut into the asphalt or concrete, piezeoelectric, accoustic, microwave, and infrared.



Ohio also has an RWIS system like many other states that will have a small weather station nearby. The sensors can determine the weather conditions and the road surface conditions.



Those give you information like this... .



http://www.odotonline.org/rwis/rputower.asp?Sysid=562&Rpuid=0



This is probably what you see.



BTW... . I Write software and design networks to collect data like this... . Just not the consumer side of it.

 

[Blakers]

Thanks Dieselman,



They point straight across the road - perpendicular to the traffic flow.



I will look to see if there're any loops in the pavement.



It's not a toll road.



I'll look for PVC pipes sticking up, but this is way out in the country so I doubt they'd be monitoring air quality.



And they aren't RWIS weather monitors - we have those too and I know what they look like.



I'm wondering if they are radiation detectors as they're talking about hauling nuke plant spent fuel through the area?



Any other ideas?



Thanks,

Blake

 

[DIESELMAN]

I'll still bet they are RWIS, I doubt they are radiation detectors. There is virtually nothing to detect when a load passes. The Spent Nuke trucks are a lot safer than 10,000 gallons of propane at 85MPH!



Ever hear of an FAE or a BLEV?? I'll take the iodine pill now thank you!



Just call them and they will tell you what they are. The normal weather stations will have the usual weather vane, anemometer, precip bucket etc and are obvious. The RWIS have another box with a shielded window, kind of like a flap or slot, about 30" or 40" above the road to measure the temp, and a sensor below the road for subsurface temp. The Weather boxes can't be that close to the road or passing vehicles will skew the measurement accuracy.



Everyone does it a little different. If they are perpendicular to the flow then they are probably not speed, though speed sensors are usually located at the same site since they have communications to that sight.



Speed sensors are the spaced loops embedded in the pavement, and Microwave (Radar) looks like 8" square panels or 20" long 2 " diameter tubes on overhead signs pointed down at the oncoming traffic. More accurate and less subjective than the loops are. And can be photo enhanced ( Read Speeding Ticket ).



The open gold colored ( most often ) yagi antennas ( with elements ) are the PASS system, different names in different areas that allow trucks to pass weigh stations, automated theft by the government. And the other system is the automated Toll collection system for Toll Roads.



The Ozone and NOx systems are usually in pollution sensitive areas, Phoenix, LA, Denver I know have them. They also measure particulate matter.



The latest toys are on the Border stations, I'm not sure I should tell how those work but let you see inside a truck without opening it and can determine with great accuracy the contents of that truck. No, its not X-Ray.



Just remember, They are watching you... ... .

 

[Blakers]

No, never heard of FAE or BLEV - what are they?



I know they have some speed sensing loops here and there, but they say they are just for statistics. I don't think the camera speeding tickets are legal in Ohio. Ohio's not a bad state for that kind of thing - not a gestapo state as some are.



I know they do have a sensor thing at the weigh stations allowing some trucks to pass. Not sure what they call it. Those boxes look a lot like the ones they just installed on the side of the road.



I guess the only way to hide from those who want to watch is to become Amish, ditch the SSN and assume a name that a thousand other Amishmen have.

 

[DIESELMAN]

FAE : Fuel Air Explosion (Explosive). Dispersion of a large amount of explosive liquid or powder until it reaches its explosive air to fuel concentration, and then ignited. Very Nasty. Propane, Natural Gas, Diesel Oil, Aluminum Powder, Grain Dust, Baking Soda, anything that can burn and be disbursed can be dangerous. Its just a difficult explosive to make on purpose. The military BTW uses an alluminum powder or ethelyne oxide in their FAE bombs. Disbursing the cloud 100 feet above the surface, then igniting it. Causes a massive over pressure wave of 1000PSI and more at ground level (still less than TNT, but longer in duration). Not the place to be. Grain Elevators are also susceptible to this kind of explosion.



BLEVE : Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. When a Propane Tank is heated, not necessarily very hot, but at a rate where the liquid within vaporizes at a rate faster than can be contained or released resulting in a catastrophic explosion. Propane Tanks usually BLEVE after venting most of the fuel from the tank over press release valve, then when the pressure actually begins to drop, it seems safe to approach, then the remaining Vapor/liquid within detonates when the flame reaches it sending the tank in pieces in all directions. When a propane tank vent is screaming, leave, forget about it, check on it tomorrow! Can also happen to solvents and fuel in unpressurized or open tanks and vats. Fire Departments need to be aware that hot gas in a tank for instance, can be put out with foam, but the boiling hot liquid releases a lot of vapor under the 'cap' of foam, it 'boils' out and can cause massive fireball explosions and erruptions.



Most Danger from a Nuke Transport wreck, getting squished by the cannister as it bounces down the freeway! The rescue people may need to take a large dose of iodine immediately to prevent radioactive iodine from being absorbed by the thioroid. The other symptoms will go away. No birth defects either, they'll be sterile (just kidding).



Long Reply, but, you asked..... what do I know? , I am an Electrical/Communications Engineer, not a Fireman or Weapons designer, there are plenty on the site who do know about these things I just got too much time on my hands... . And Yes, Its Saturday and I worked all friggin night again!!! Good Night!

 

[DIESELMAN]

Originally posted by Blakers

I know they have some speed sensing loops here and there, but they say they are just for statistics

There are a lot more loops than you think. Almost every stop light for instance, and all interstate freeways have two or more between every exit in every lane. Loops are never used for tickets. They only give general statistics. Too innacurate. Approx speed and traffic counts. Some can only tell that the lane is or was occupied, nothing more.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by DIESELMAN

BLEVE : Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

Ok, I know what this one is - I better as a steam engineer! I just wasn't sure what you meant by the initials.



If a steam boiler explodes, the energy contained in the steam is very little compared to the energy contained in the water in the boiler that is way above atmospheric pressure, so therefore way above 212 degrees. If the vessel ruptures ALL of that superheated water will flash into steam - which takes up about 12,000 times as much space as the water it came from. It's hard to imagine the energy released.



They say a 20 horsepower boiler contains enough energy that, if it were all released at once, could propel a 1" diameter lead ball to the sun. Not sure if that is actually true, but I know there is a lot of energy there!



Well it's late here now too. Trying to stay away until 6:30 when I can go home!



Blake

 

[Peter Campbell]

Or as the instructor on the fire training ground said. BLEVE=Block Leveling Explosion Very Effective. There is a thumbrule for propane tranks on fire. If you can not cover the entire fire scene from view with your thumb. You are too close.

 

[JyRO]

Peter - Wouldn't that be dependent on how close your thumb was to your eye?



- JyRO

 

[rkressg]

I-90 in Indiana has those things. They say they are to detect if an animal in the general area, to alert motorists if one is on the interstate. I don't know if they work, but they drive radar detectors nuts, to the point they are annoying and you want to turn it off.

 

[DBoyd]

Quick question while on the subject of traffic control and observation devices, at an intersection with traffic lights, what are the devices aimed at the vehicles? They sure look like cameras but the TXDot people say they are just sensors for the traffic lights. I am seeing them at some of the most remote places down here in south TX!!! Miles from anywhere!!!

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by DBoyd

Quick question while on the subject of traffic control and observation devices, at an intersection with traffic lights, what are the devices aimed at the vehicles? They sure look like cameras but the TXDot people say they are just sensors for the traffic lights. I am seeing them at some of the most remote places down here in south TX!!! Miles from anywhere!!!

Usually if they're in the center of the intersection - aimed at you while you're stopped at the light - they are receivers that pick up a signal from a fire truck or ambulance that trips the light to green and the others to red to allow the emergency vehicle to proceed through. Some have flashing lights that let you know an emergency vehicle is coming.



They are all around Erie, Pa. Unfortunately, their design makes them very inviting places for birds to build nests, so most I have seen have bird nests in them, making them virtually useless for the intended mission.



The cameras I have seen at intersections are usually mounted further from the intersection, usually on one of the poles that hang the cables supporting the lights.



Blake

 

[Blakers]

Here's the answer to my original question, as provided by the Ohio Department of Transportation:



The wood poles with housings, detectors, and solar panels mounted to them are to be used for gathering traffic volume information before, during, and after specific construction projects, to research diversionary patterns as a result of construction operations. The diversionary study will be gathering data for approximately 2 years, relative to upcoming IR 90 projects.



As early as next week, installation work will also be taking place for Road Weather Information Systems (RWIS) in Ashtabula County along IR 90. The three sites on ATB 90 will be at the Lake County Line, the PA line, and at SR 11. Some of the pavement sensors have already been installed, but the towers with the meteorological devices and communication equipment are not yet in place. Pavement temperature and other site specific information regarding weather and road conditions will be available when this installation work is completed.