Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) New Diesel Fuel Stds vs 1997 CTD

[Tom Trujillo]

In a nutshell, what are the ramifications of the coming changes in diesel fuel versus a stock '97 CTD fuel system, if any?



Thanks in advance.



Tom

 

[SEmerson]

It is a drier diesel. In a nutshell it is harder on the truck. But a 12v will have no problems with it. The 24v will have more vp44 problems.

 

[MAleksandrowicz]

I took my 95 down to Myrtle Beach, SC last weekend and in VA they were selling the ultra low sulfur diesel. I noticed no difference in power running it. I got 20mpg with the regular stuff and 21 with the low sulfer.

 

[Missouri Mule]

In reading the TDR magazine the new fuel is supposed to clean out tanks and lines so you will need to change your fuel filter more often when it first comes out.

I also read there will be less power as reported by trucking companies that have been trying it out.

 

[Hammer]

I also read there will be less power as reported by trucking companies that have been trying it out.

Less power is just one of the major side effects. It also can cause premature wear to all of the fuel system components due to being alot harsher and containing less lubricating properties. Remember,sulphur is a lubricating agent along with its other properties and when less is all thats available something will fail. On our 06 and back trucks(pre-07 mandated emissions) we are seeing injector failures,lift pump failures,o-rings going bad and leaking along with many undescribed power related failures. Yes it can be ran in our old rides,but,a good lubricating additive will be needed to save our powerplants in the long run.



One other item. .

The Old LSD will not be allowed to be run in the newer ULSD trucks and WILL cause failures of fuel systems in those 07 and up equipped trucks. We have already seen that also in some of our test trucks which were equipped with the newer emissions standards. Most fuel milages dropped in the older trucks about 3-8% where the newer 07 Diesel fuel was run. Also,another side effect of the newer fuel is algae formation and you will need to protect yourself more often with a good algaecide... ... ... ... ... . Andy

 

[monkeyman]

According to Bosche the VP44 has seals that will be not affected by the new fuel.

Rick

 

[Tom Trujillo]

what a mess it appears this is going to be

 

[DieselDoghouse]

BUT, may not be as bad as the new acid-forming ethanol-gasoline and its long term effects on internal engine parts according to some engineers!!

 

[GAmes]

Remember,sulphur is a lubricating agent

No, that is an internet rumor with no basis in fact. From the Cummins web site;





Sulfur Content (ASTM D2622, ISO 4260)

Not to exceed 0. 5 mass percent*

Diesel fuels contain varying amounts of various sulfur compounds. Fuel sulfur contributes to acid formation and exhaust particulates. Reduced sulfur is required to meet particulate emissions and to avoid poisoning aftertreatment devices. Higher sulfur fuel also needs higher TBN lubricants to compensate for acid corrosion



http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content....overviewId=29&anchorId=44&index=3&menuIndex=4

 

[WDimig]

sulphur is a lubricating agent, i dont care what my company says, lol

they were implying that sulphur is also a contibutor to the particulates that these newer engines need to get rid of, sulphur is a major part of the lubricating property of diesel fuel, why do you think its bad to run kerosene in a newer vp44 or commonrail, no sulphur, hence you need a lubricating additive.



wes

 

[GAmes]

sulphur is a major part of the lubricating property of diesel fuel,

No it is not. Higher sulpher requires more lubricants to combat corrosion. It is in the text. If this myth gets any more press then people will be buying sulpher at their local garden supply then asking on this forum how many cupfuls to add to a tank of fuel. The process of removing sulpher does remove natural lubricants as well, and I think that is how this rumor started. Perhaps Gitchesum will chime in. He works in the petroleum industry.

 

[EKlem]

I agree with GAmes. Sulphur is not a lubricant. It is true that ultra low sulphur diesel will have less lubricity, but it is not directly related to the sulphur content. The reason that the lubricity is lower is that in the process of removing the sulphur, some of the lubrication of the fuel is removed. For anyone with access to biodiesel, even 5% should get that lost lubricity back.

 

[BigEasy]

The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!

 

[SKargo]

Oh brother, someone give Hammer his tinfoil hat

 

[Hammer]

Oh brother, someone give Hammer his tinfoil hat

And to what do/did I do to deserve this one????



Keep it up son and the next time I fog one of your salesmen and their customers they will walk back into your building looking like they were in the tanning salon instead of jay-walking across the street in front of me.



BTW. .

I never said the sky was falling,that may hurt. I was just relating what problems we are having with the new fuel at our terminal. The 07 Volvos are falling like flies due to the incorrect fuel and are collecting at the dealership for repairs,LOL. Opps,maybe I shouldn't have laughed there as mine is one with a permanent parking slot there.



It is kinda funny when you have heard from years of the lubricating properties of sulphur in diesel fuels. Now that the tree huggers want it out they tell you it has NO lubricating properties,go figure. Myself,not being a chemist,can not argue one way or the other on it but I will add this,does it really matter?. Sounds like word play games to me.



Now find that chicken who has noted the sky falling again... Tommorrow is BBQ day and there is always a need for more meat on the grill... ... ..... Andy

 

[TAbbott]

No, that is an internet rumor with no basis in fact. From the Cummins web site;





Sulfur Content (ASTM D2622, ISO 4260)

Not to exceed 0. 5 mass percent*

Diesel fuels contain varying amounts of various sulfur compounds. Fuel sulfur contributes to acid formation and exhaust particulates. Reduced sulfur is required to meet particulate emissions and to avoid poisoning aftertreatment devices. Higher sulfur fuel also needs higher TBN lubricants to compensate for acid corrosion



http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content....overviewId=29&anchorId=44&index=3&menuIndex=4

Where in the text you quoted does it say that sulphur in diesel fuel does not act as a lubricating agent? That lubricating ability, plus its power producing qualities are simply the positive side of the ledger as opposed to its' negatives of acid formation when combusted together with particulate pollution.

 

[GAmes]

Where in the text you quoted does it say that sulphur in diesel fuel does not act as a lubricating agent? That lubricating ability, plus its power producing qualities are simply the positive side of the ledger as opposed to its' negatives of acid formation when combusted together with particulate pollution.

I guess it would bethis sentence;





Higher sulfur fuel also needs higher TBN lubricants to compensate for acid corrosion



and the fact that no diesel additive I've seen lists sulphur as an ingrediant. The Howes bottle even has "no solvents, alcohols, sulphur, ash" on the label.



But if you insist on sulphur being a lubricant (and that it produces power ) I recommend one cup of sifted high grade dissolved in a quart of transmission fluid per 30 gallons of fuel.

 

[SKargo]

And to what do/did I do to deserve this one????



Keep it up son and the next time I fog one of your salesmen and their customers they will walk back into your building looking like they were in the tanning salon instead of jay-walking across the street in front of me.



BTW. .

I never said the sky was falling,that may hurt. I was just relating what problems we are having with the new fuel at our terminal. The 07 Volvos are falling like flies due to the incorrect fuel and are collecting at the dealership for repairs,LOL. Opps,maybe I shouldn't have laughed there as mine is one with a permanent parking slot there.



It is kinda funny when you have heard from years of the lubricating properties of sulphur in diesel fuels. Now that the tree huggers want it out they tell you it has NO lubricating properties,go figure. Myself,not being a chemist,can not argue one way or the other on it but I will add this,does it really matter?. Sounds like word play games to me.



Now find that chicken who has noted the sky falling again... Tommorrow is BBQ day and there is always a need for more meat on the grill... ... ..... Andy

Hey now, don't be foggin the good people of J-ville. :-laf

 

[gitchesum]

The common mis-conception is that the sulfur in diesel is the lurbricant when in fact it isn't. Most refiners use a hydro-treating process to de-sulfurize diesel fuels. This process can reduce trace components containing nitrogen and oxygen that provide a natural lubricity.



All diesel fuel must meet ASTM D-975. All diesel manufacturers have been using a lubricity additive just like they have been since the introduction of LSD. They are just required to use more of it now.

 

[gitchesum]

An additional advantage ULSD has over LSD is the cetane rating. Most diesel fuels now have a minimum cetane rating closer to 50 than they did before.



Most of the diesel specs I see are well over 50.