new fueling box summary includes new VA box

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Where would a guy get one of these?

 

[JPalese]

Best box for economy?

Originally posted by Johnstra

DLeno - Nice writeup... very helpful. Maybe you can add a section on fuel efficiency for the various boxes? I know I'm probably in the minority being interested in a box in order to improve MPG, but surely there must be a least a couple of other folks interested in this.

I too am interested in best economy. I rarely tow > 5500lb and do not show off with the truck.



Stock it gets 17. 2 mpg on the freeway between 1500 & 1600 RPM (55-60 MPH) (48re transmission)



Which box on what setting will allow me to turn these RPMS but with enough extra power to hit at least 70 mph?



Is there a more economical RPM range?

 

[GCrowell]

Fuel economy! Fuel economy!

Keep the testing / info coming. I too am VERY interested in anything, (reasonable, that is), that will improve the fuel economy. I have ~3500 miles on the clock and if I baby it I can get about 14 empty at about 60mph. Towing ~5000# I can get only ~10. 3mph. These numbers are hand calculated but do agree closely with the OH computer. That is really bad news since I traded in my '02 SO 2500 that would see 22+ under the same unloaded conditions and pulling the same load would show ~13mph. I don't need any more power per se, just a better utilization of the fuel I am burning.

 

[JEly]

So VA makes 2 boxes----a pressure box and a duration box-----the pressure box doesnt make as much gain as the duration box if I am reading this correct. So if you wanted a "towing" box wouldnt you want the duration box?



Jim

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

For the last year, I have seen and average of 13 mpg in my DRW 03 SO. Last month I changed it over to a SRW and debombed it. I now am running an EZ and Piers turbo. Monday I drove to LA and back 287 miles and used 14. 4 gallons of fuel. That is 19. 93 mpg, my best ever. Now I drove 70 mph at about 2200 rpm's. I used to think that the high numbers wern't possible. I am a believer.

 

[AndyMan]

Has anybody taken delivery of the new VA box? Impressions?



OH!, and how much does the little bugger cost???

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by JEly

So VA makes 2 boxes----a pressure box and a duration box-----the pressure box doesnt make as much gain as the duration box if I am reading this correct. So if you wanted a "towing" box wouldnt you want the duration box?



Jim

Thats how I see it, yes. Although the pressure box itself has a very "towing-like" behavior (maximizing gains in the most driven range, very little gain in peak HP output), the duration box appears to be much stronger. So just my theoretical view here, the duration box would be better -- not because it is "duration" necessarily, but because it is stronger.



but I must emphasize here that when towing with any box, you must monitor EGTs. Depending on what air modifications you have on your truck, some driving conditions might not allow you to use all of the ~120 HP gain. so just watch out for that.

 

[JEly]

Well I bought and have tried the Ramifier and didnt care for it--------not that it isnt good but it makes the throttle real TOUCHY. I do have the TTPM which works good and is adjustable but I am just concerned about raising rail pressure and if I can get away from that with a different box that only does duration I think that would be a better way to go--------for me



JIM

 

[Fireman]

Don't forget the clutch, or AT. That is why I finally decided on the "weaker" of the Smartboxes. All I need is to fatten up a little below 2000 rpm. Don't want to worry about the clutch or have to go to a bigger turbo. I should have mine later in the week and then will be taking the FW on a short trip the next week, I'll let y'all know how I like it when I get back.



Fireman

 

[DLeno]

thats a good point. I would be interested to know how much of the "duration" VA box power is usable with perhaps an air intake and exhaust.

 

[JEly]

Not only would I like to know what is useable but also with a duration box you will be putting in more fuel that doesnt get burnt and thus the high EGT temps. So I'm just wondering if a pressure box burns better and doesnt have the high EGT's wouldnt that be the way to go?



JIM

 

[Fireman]

From what I've been able to gleen from this site the stock turbo is good for about as much fuel and air as would yield another 70 hp. That seems to be near the limit of the stock clutch also. I could run the duration box at half power, BUT sooner or later (probably sooner) I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to "turn it up"



If I understand what Doug has been saying about rail pressure, the Smartbox should only exceed the stock limit slightly and probably only at the higher rpms.



Anyway, that is the reasoning behind my decision to purchase the pressure box. Time will tell,

Fireman

 

[Fireman]

JEly,



Since the duration box makes close to the same power on level1 as the pressure box on level2 they should add about the same amount of fuel (at those respective levels) They just do it in a different way.



Fireman

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by JEly

Not only would I like to know what is useable but also with a duration box you will be putting in more fuel that doesnt get burnt and thus the high EGT temps. So I'm just wondering if a pressure box burns better and doesnt have the high EGT's wouldnt that be the way to go?



JIM

yea, thats the outstanding question. certainly a radical duration box without timing advance installed on a 600 would be bad in my opinion. Thats because the 600 already has severely retarded timing (to control NOx), and you risk dumping fuel in there that doesn't have a chance to completely burn before the power stroke completes and the exhaust valve opens.



My guess is that with the care VA took in their pressure box (I think it only goes to about 23,600 psi, as opposed to 26,000-27,000 for the other major pressure boxes) I would expect that they've thought about this.



I think it is imporant to realize that is is premature to say any of the following things:



1. that a pressure box has a more complete burn and lower EGTs because all the fuel is delivered within the same time period and is guarenteed not to push the timing limits of the power stroke



2. that a pressure box has a less complete burn and higher EGTs because of the very high fuel charge that might not atomize completely.



3. that a duration box has a more complete burn due to the longer time period over which the fuel in injected.



4. that a duration box has higher EGTs because it pushes the timing limits of the power stroke



consider:



1. we already know from the TST work that the 305 engine has alot to give in the duration department. the VA duration is rather moderate compared to what TST is doing -- good thing because the VA does not advance timing.



2. some testing will be in order -- the best way to answer this question is to measure EGTs at the same power level and RPM



3. Given all the rumblings in the industry over timing, I would expect that VA is probably working on timing just like everyone else and, just like everyone else, my guess is that they haven't nailed it either. thats just me speculating...

 

[EEngel]

DLeno

DLeno,



Are you thinking that duration only is not a good idea for the 600 without the timing option?



I'm pretty sure you will see the combo in the near future. And since the VA box is reprogramable, it will be an east upgrade (provided your vendor is a good guy).

 

[DLeno]

I'm thinking that radical duration without timing advance. proof of the pudding will be how the 600 performs EGT wise. I'm just saying that because of the more severely retarded timing of the 600, there is probably less room for extended duration without adding in some timing. this is all speculation, and we have yet to see how the VA duration box performs on a 600. My guess is that VA wouldn't release a box that wasn't fully tested and acceptable, but we'll have to keep our eyes open. Just judging by how long it took them to come to market, my guess is that they are further along in understanding this issue than we are the VA box may not approach the duration limit of the 600 anyway.



yea, I look for the upgradability as well. just look at the industry and how everyone is trying to get timing to work. I'm thinking this duration only box is just a pre-cursor to a moderate timing/duration box that uses only ONE engine connection point!



well, we can hope can't we?

 

[EEngel]

DLeno

DLeno,



Well, I'm going to ponder that the VA box will always only connect at one point. I think the will modify the timing through the ECM.



What'cha think of that pudding?

 

[DLeno]

sweet is what I think of that pudding . I'm assuming you mean in the digital domain as opposed to the analog domain, as TST and Bullydog and Volumizer do? I don't know enough about timing information or commands that may or may not be available in the digital domain. who knows maybe they've figured out how to do it.



Even if they perform timing changes by analog fooling, they have the advantage in using the ECM connector because all the physical connections are all at the same point. this has both a user advantage (install) and an electrical advantage -- delays, noise, etc, associated with separate wires to crank and cam sensor where the box mfg has little control over where the user will route those wires. I understand that the phase relationship between crank and cam sensor signals is extraordinarily critical.

 

[Matt400]

I just put the VASB C3 on my truck and really like it. Its the pressure box so if their numbers are correct it makes my puny CA SO into a 300/660.



The numbers feel like it as it pulls awfully hard down low but flattens out up on top. Perfect for me cuz I hardly ever rev it out much. No dynos around here so I can't confirm.



The product quality looks first rate, install was a snap and I like the 3 pos switch for off, 50% and 100%.

I will be doing mpg testing on all 3 settings so I know where to run for mpg's and for hot rodding its a level 3!



In cab on the fly switching may prove nice while towing. Just a simple rotary knob like your blower fan only small. I may mount it in the cig lighter spot.

 

[Blakers]

Is the VA pressure box upgradable in the future? Or only the VA durration box?



Thanks,



Blake