new fueling box summary includes new VA box

[Blakers]

Timing

Does anyone know what the stock timing is on the 305/555 engine and on the 325/600 engine? I mean what nominal timing do they run at highway speeds under load? What are their limits?



I know the 12 valve engines are generally factory set around 11 or 12 deg BTDC. Most suggest advancing them to 15 or 15. 5 deg BTDC for optimal performance.

 

[DLeno]

Matt400: great report. you're experiencing a "towing box" instead of a "dyno day box" frankly I think its a great approach because such designs avoid the high-EGTs associated with high rpm high fueling (the pilot injection goes away up there). This does look like a good box for the SO -- I'm assuming here that the rail itself on the SO is no different from that on the HO, and that there is more room to do "pressure" on the SO. someone correct me if this is wrong.



Blakers -- VA has only a pressure box (that Mat400 is using), and their newly released duaration box. They do not have a timing box out right nowl, and the duration box is conspicuous for its lack of timing. the design of the VA duration box (If I understand right, it is the first truly digital device, not operating on analog fooling as all other boxes including TST do) does suggest upgradabiilty but we don't know this for sure, or even if it is possible, if VA will charge for it. The word from Precision Diesel is that they've architected the box to accept additional programing for timing.

 

[Blakers]

Sorry Doug, I meant to say "pressure," not "timing. " I changed it. It was a long midnight shift!

 

[Blakers]

Durration box

I wrote to van Aaken about their new durration box, but have not had a reply yet. Does anyone know where we can get more information on it? Has anyone actually received a reply from van Aaken in relation to this box?



Thanks,

Blake

 

[DLeno]

It took me about 1. 5 eons to get a response too. guess they don't have the resources to respond quickly . disapointing but true.







here is a link to the dyno run -- this is a 305 running on the VA duration box. this stuff should be out on their web site soon.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I may be wrong but don't 305 HP trucks put out 265 HP stock? That dyno chart says 306. 1.

 

[DLeno]

yea something like that. 15% or so loss in the drivetrain. I think the 306 HP figure was the box on level 1, and that this graph does not include a stock run. Ted, can you confirm?

 

[ASchwartz]

Yes

Greg,



I ran on afe's mustang a 260/510 totally stock. I have pic's of the graphs in my album.



Avi

 

[Blakers]

It says Brake Horsepower - that would be engine horsepower, not rear wheel horsepower.



Blake

 

[DLeno]

negative on that. Brake horspower is rear wheel HP



-----------

NOUN: abbr. bhp or b. hp. The actual or useful horsepower of an engine, usually determined from the force exerted on a friction brake or dynamometer connected to the drive shaft

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by DLeno

negative on that. Brake horspower is rear wheel HP

Doug, brake horsepower is engine horsepower, determined by a prony brake or dynomometer connected to an engine on a test stand. They may be able to calculate it from rear wheel horsepower, subtracting a variable for loss. It is not drawbar horsepower (pulling power) or rear wheel horsepower.

 

[Blakers]

Does anyone know what the model number is on the new van Aaken durration box? I asked them for info and they sent me a pdf on the SmarkBox C3. 1. It looks like this is still the pressure box.



Thanks.

 

[Gypsyman]

Blakers,

PM me your e-mail address and I'll shoot you the correct graphs and literature. You can also call or e-mail Precision Diesel for information. Talk to Dan Montegari, the owner. Super cool guy! I just ordered the duration box UPS RED today so that I can try it out this weekend. I'll give a write up on it when I get a chance. BTW the pressure box is being called the C3 Level 1, and the duration box is called the C3 Level 2. At least on the literature that I was sent.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by Blakers

Doug, brake horsepower is engine horsepower, determined by a prony brake or dynomometer connected to an engine on a test stand. They may be able to calculate it from rear wheel horsepower, subtracting a variable for loss. It is not drawbar horsepower (pulling power) or rear wheel horsepower.

I understand that for engine dynos. so brake horsepower does not refer to power measured by the braking device on a chassis dyno?



If these dyno runs are in fact engine HP, then they cannot be trusted because we don't know what correction factor they assumed.

 

[Matt400]

I was just looking at a flyer VA sent me on the level 1 & 2 units.

I would expect that the pulse width (level 2) would not enhance or maintain fuel economy like the level 1 does. So far I have seen . 8mpg increase on setting 3 with the level 1 box.



I wonder which of these two boxes are better for towing??

 

[DLeno]

$64 question. Personally I'm not expecting an efficiency difference between pressure and duration -- its all just more fuel (there are arguments both ways, nothing proven). I think the efficiency gains people see (like the . 8 mph you mention) has to do with getting more HP out of the engine at lower rpms.



But I don't think we can say that level 2 is less efficient than level 1, etc. again, there are arguments both ways, nothing proven.



as for towing, I can think of an argument saying that the duration box would be better because it makes more torque in the region most used. but this has not been proven of course.



timing is conspicuously absent from the VA box.

 

[Marco]

Sorry

Guys,



I don't want to rain onto your parade...



The simple fact is that a box CAN NOT stretch the injection impulse in the Cummins Common Rail system.



All the hype about tha VA stretching the injection event thus allowing for mor fuel is just that, hype.



Marco

 

[EEngel]

Really? Hype?

Marco,



Could you please tell us how the VA "duration" box is providing it's power?



Thanks.

 

[Marco]

Well, maybe FP?



Marco

 

[Jeff_K]

Marco, Why exactly can injection pulse duration width not be changed? Please enlighten us.