New Home: Planned Community or Build Your Own?

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Homebuilder types out there, or anyone who's been in my shoes recently: I'm looking for some advice!!



Here's my story. . . .



I am wanting to upgrade to a better house. I've lived in this one for 9. 5 years and it's pretty small (right at 900 sq/ft) and it's not in that good of area (many don't speak the language here). I can afford to move up now, but since I bought my '03 Ram in March I cannot quite go as nice as I'd like.



For the last 2 months I've been looking at existing homes as well as new communities, which are being built in this area at a wild, wild pace. What started out as being a lot of fun has gotten a bit discouraging. It seems the "perfect" home does not exist! Well, I have found a few, but they are out of reach for me.



Almost every existing home I've found in my price range has something majorly wrong with it. I look at $160K homes (upper range of what I can afford) and they have sagging roofs and bad paint jobs. Many haven't been kept up well, or they have no charm at all, or the lot's too small, the garage is too small, or they're in a crummy location. I've looked in communities that are 5-10 years old but many have been thrown up and already showing signs of deterioration (bad paint, cheap shingles, boring architecture, poorly planned community).



I have looked at a lot of new construction in the scores of new communities going up here. There is no shortage of selection. They're filling up the gaps and displacing the orchards in Kennewick. They're gobbling up the sandy expanses west and north of Pasco. But there is something that isn't perfect about those either. Orchard Crest has large lots and 3-car garages but the standard features are minimal and I don't care for the floor plans. Pheasant Run has awesome floor plans and nice appointments but the workmanship is lacking and the lots are small, most 7K-8K square feet. Desert Estates in Pasco is also very nice, larger lots, nice homes, expensive homes next door with lots of palm trees, but when the wind blows it's was a major sand storm. I couldn't put up with that until the area develops enough to keep blowing sand in check.



Then there's my problem with living in "Cooke Cutter City" or "Newville. " I don't like whole sections of houses looking alike or being exactly the same age. Maturing landscaping would be nice. The nicer communities don't look that bad but it just kinda goes against my religion.



Now, I'm starting to think about another option I hadn't considered. And that is buying a piece of property and building *exactly* what I want: 2 story home with 2-car garage, open lower floorplan, large living or family room, open kitchen w/adjacent dining room, open stairway with banister, deck off master bedroom, fireplace, wood-wrap windows, and all on a lot between 0. 4 and 1 acre so there's room for a future medium-sized shop.



If I build I could have more control over who builds it and the materials that goes into it. But I have absolutely no knowledge in this area and I'm afraid it will be more involved than I want to get. I don't know how to shop for property either, don't know what to look out for. It would have to have water, power & phone there already because I don't want to pay to get these installed or drill a well. Septic system would be OK though.



So what do you TDR experts recommend? Do builders generally lay foundation and frame up and enclose then you find your own guys to do plumbing/electrical/HVAC/drywall/siding/roofing? What about finish work? Do some builders do it all and all you do is move in? I have tried and haven't really found any listing of builders in my area. A friend of mine tried going this route and got frustrated and ended up buying a newer existing home. That is still my first preference, if I can ever FIND the perfect home!



Here is what would work best for me if I build: Get the lot I want, and the floorplan I like. Don't skimp on this. Get the house built, finish it out enough to be livable, and then as I can afford it put in the nice appointments like tile flooring & countertops, jetted tub, lighting fixtures, hardwood floor, concrete work outdoors, brickwork, landscaping etc. I would build it livable in a few months then make the rest a work in progress over the next few years to make it nice.



I would want a builder who can do the foundation and frame it up, then I could choreograph the rest of it and do what I can myself. I'm not crunched for time, I could take 9-12 months, the only stipulation is locking in financing before interest rates go up. If I do this I hope to start soon as I could probably get better labor & materials prices building through the winter (they build year 'round here but it slows some in the winter).



Anyway that's my story, sorry it got so long-winded. That's what happens when I think out loud with a keyboard.

I'll be glad to hear yours if you've been down a similar path lately and can share some advice



Vaughn

 

[Ncostello]

Contractors do things 100 different ways in subdivisions. Some developers just sell the lots and let you choose the contractor, some build and and sell the whole house with the lot. It might depend on the "rules" of the developer on how long you can take, what you are allowed to do etc. I think farming it out like you said will save some bucks. You've got a good idea of what you want to do and I think it would work if you can stand not having some of the details finished before moving in.



Or you can do like me and buy a 100 year old house and spend every waking hour you have off work trying to replace plumbing, furnace, etc. I've spent two weeks completely redesigning a new HVAC system that will work right. The folks before me did a great job making the outside/inside look pretty, but nothing for the mechanical things. Its hard to live in something and try to fix things up as you go. Keep that in mind once your all moved in.

 

[Andy Perreault]

Vaughn, this post could be a long one. .

Personally I would NEVER buy a house in a "planned community". You have no freedom to do what you want because of all the conditions, covenants, and restrictions (C C & R's). I feel that no one has the right to tell you that you can only paint your house in an "approved" color, you can't park a boat or RV in the driveway, you can't work on your car, you can only landscape your property in a certain way, etc. etc. I'm surprised that they don't tell you how to vote or tell you that you can't own a gun. This is AMERICA! It should be illegal for a developer to have the ability to force those restrictions on people. It should also be illegal to build houses so darn close together on such small lots! That style of building houses is based on PURE GREED, the developer is milking as much as he can out of the land. Sorry, this is a hot button for me! Where I live, the mayor and the city council keep approving these massive developments one after another, without any regard as to how they will lower the quality of life around here. What will happen when there are suddenly 500 more cars on the two-lane roads during rush hour? The simple solution is to enact minimum lot size laws. That will stop the developers from building the houses so close together that you can hear your neigbor fart. Larger lots mean less congestion.

Here's an example of how rediculous some of the rules in these "planned communities" are: I have a friend who lives in Orange County, California, in one of those "planned communities" with a fancy name where all the houses look the same and they're all 5 feet apart from each other. One day, he and his wife were planting flowers in front of the house and doing other yard work. An old man came by in a golf cart and wrote them a citation because their garage door had been open for more than four hours!! Can you believe that? When I heard that, I swore that I would never buy a house in one of those communities. No one has the right to tell me that I can't work on my truck in my own driveway, let alone how long I can have my garage door open! Don't even think about buying a boat, because you wouldn't be able to park it on your property. You'll have to pay to store it somewhere where it will get vandalized anyway!

But, sadly, most home buyers across the country have no choice, because this is the way most houses are built nowadays. People are forced to give up their freedom of choice and their individuality if they want to buy a house they can afford. They are forced to live their lives the way someone else thinks they should live. It's either that or buy an older house in a bad or declining neighborhood... or buy out in a rural area and put up with a longer commute.

As for me, I'd take that third option. I'll gladly deal with a longer commute if that's what it takes to have a little breathing room and some peace and quiet where the neighbors's houses are far enough away that I can't hear what TV show they're watching. Room for a big shop, RV parking, etc. And no one can tell me what to do with my land and house!

My sister's a real estate agent. She says that Will Rogers had this quote: "You're better off buying land because they're not making any more of it. "

Because of my job situation, I'm not sure where or when I'll end up moving. Right now I'm on 1. 3 acres at the end of a dead end road in a semi-rural area. It's okay for now. But after living here, I know I will never go back to the suburbs!

Sorry for the ranting.

Andy

 

[TPCDrafting]

I'm an architectural designer and work with people much like yourself every day. First off all the points above are great ones to think about.

You need to decide if you want to build or not. Either keep looking for an existing house or jump in with both feet to build. Once you've decided to build, drop by your local book store and pick up a house plan book. They are typically very cheap and come with hundreds if not thousands of plans. You can order a set through these catalogs pretty inexpensive or as many people do, tear out 3 or 4 plans they like, then hire someone like myself to combine all the points of each they like into one home. As stated above, it depends on the developer and they're rules on what you can build, how long you can work on it and what it can look like. I don't care for cookie cutter neighborhoods either myself and wouldn't live in one. They have their place and many people either like it or don't really mind. To me, that leaves the rest of the country for us. Anyhow, if you find a lot where you can do your own general contracting sounds more up your alley. You can find foundation contractors and framing crews building in the area. Take a tour of the home they are building and look for quality of workmanship. There are builders in my general area that you order the prints from, they frame the house and get it weather tight, then walk away and let you finish the rest. You can in most juristictions do your own plumbing/elec'l/hvac, but you could also hire it out as well. Keep in mind the time commitment on doing your own work. Most juristictions allow you to move in on a temporary C. O. (certificate of occupancy) as long as you have an operational kitchen and an one fully operational bathroom. Some don't allow this and you should check in with the local building department and developer first. There's at least 100 cans of worms to open when building, but decide one way or the other first. Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.

 

[willyslover]

and... . while your checking on the above LOL





go to several bankers and see what are the parameters on the construction loans on owner / builder set-up. . they varry a ton

 

[lpearson]

Be Cautious

I've had a good amount of experience with real estate, building and new homes.



Building your own home has a great amount of allure to it, but should be looked at with both eyes open.



1. Check out land prices where you think you want to build.

2. Check Utilities and tap fees, Electric lines, if far away, are very expensive to bring in.

3. Check for covenants/ and enviormental issues(can be very costly).

4. Check for well depths/costs and availablity of water.

5. See if you will have to have an engineered septic system.

6. Don't forget phone lines and natural gas if it's in the area.

7. Check out general area for types of soil. (foundation/septic issues)

8. Check out general prices of homes in the area you are thinking about building in; a) you don't want to overbuild; and b) you just may come accross a home already up that will work.

9. Check out manufactured homes, some aren't so nice and some are better than you'll get from some contractors; most of the time they are about 30-40% less than stick built. e-mail me if you want more opinions on this subject.



This is just the beginning, but if too expensive here you may already have your answer as to what to do. Where I live it's about $100-$120 per sq. ft. for an average home with maybe some upgrades (doesn't include land, well septic and or tap fees/utilities).



Generally, it is WAY more expensive to build than to buy an existing home, (exception-sometimes are major home builders, ie. volume and incentives). I have yet to see a home being built that didn't have cost over-runs and some are pretty substantial.



Getting the right "subs" and general contractor is critical. Most will take advantage of you especially if they know you don't know much about the building process.



If you're married, make sure your marriage is strong going into this venture, I've seen several divorces because of building and many relationships pushed right to the point of divorce because of the stress and money issues that come with building.



Spend most of your time with the designs and decisions you want before you start. Changes after you begin are very costly, or may not be able to be done. Once you have decided, "pull the trigger" and let your contractor do his job.



There are thousands of items that go into a home and if you upgrade and change as you go along, you'll blow your budget earily on; and may have to sell your toys just to keep going.



This should be looked at just like a business, it's your money.



I could go on and on with this but I think I did my best to take the romance out of the idea. It's hard work and needs a lot of attention to detail by the owner. Oh, another thought there is no "perfect home"----even if you build what you think you want, sooner or later you'll wish that you added this or that. It's just the way it is.



On an upside, you'll have the satisfaction that you did it.







Regards,

Lowell

 

[bvanetten]

Here's an idea if you have the time to wait. Sell your current house while you can still get a good inflated price out of it. Take your profits and invest it in gold or gold shares. Rent for a couple of years to ride out the tail end of this current housing boom and prepare yourself to buy during the next big finacial boom to hit... the forclosure boom. Convert your investments to cash (which should have increased by about 25% by then) and buy that house that some guy started building a couple of years ago. You know, the one that was supposed to have cost $200000 but ended up costing $220000 with over runs but because of the glut of forclosed houses on the market and rising interest rates is now worth $160000. That one.

 

[Doc Tinker]

Buy a smaller, cheaper, older home, in a location that you really like. Preferably with some acreage. Add to the house, or reconstruct it to your satisfaction.



Doc

 

[Peter Campbell]

opinions- long

What doc said. When you are your own GC you need good relationships with sub contractors. THe bank may not give you a construction loan as an inexperienced GC. If you hire the GC he will be making some money if he is ggood. Finding the right one who can get a house up is a good find. The bank wants progress on a construction loan. Some have penalties if it takes more than 9 months to a year. Some towns do not want perennial permits for house building. If you are your own GC and there is a building boom, you will be bottom feeding on available talent. The good ones have the steady jobs and the mediocre ones will be waiting for your call, and money. The GC who commands several hundred thousand dollars of work per month will get better cooperation from the subs than you can. He can promise to keep a crew busy all year. You only have a week of work for thier crew. Whose job gets dropped in the middle when that builder calls- Yours. That GC is the one you want to take the risk and derive the benefit( your money) for building a good house on a short timeline.

If you buy a well researched house that can expand in all directions without running afoul of the town, and board of health etc, they are easier to do. Have a master plan and do one phase at a time. If and when you hire subs it is for a single job that does not interlock with other subs- he can not leave you hanging with half installed wiring when the sheetrock crew arrives- like on a new house when there is time pressure and the order things must be done. One upgrade at a time. This would take 5-10 years.

If you build new. Get plans. Get engineer architect. Get everything that you want on the spec sheet. Down to plywood or OSB, grade of wood, nailing schedules, height of basement, thickness of basement slab, utility or egress windows in the basement, floor coverings, and utility plant. ( underfloor heating, hydro air air handlers, scroll compressor central air) kitchen and bathroom fixtures/appliances/cabinets that you want installed. Down to color and model numbers. Then DO NOT DO CHANGE ORDERS. This is the huge profit center for custom builders.

" Well the builder said do you want ceramic tile in the kitchen instead of the linoleum- I said that sounds good" You just made a change order verbal contract for a cost plus modification to the house plans. He does not work for free and that is an enforcible contract. There will always be a sub or tradesman there to witness it. Just some of the many cans of worms that poor plans or not sticking to a good plan can bring.

I have been doing research. Building in New York- an adventure. Trying to build a view house on a 12. 86 acre parcel with a 1900 ft driveway that will require rockbreaking and paving. Going on a year now to get a survey so the engineer can START work on the road plan and septic plan. When a large GC calls to get survey work done- who is dropped/delayed- me. Nothing can be done because he is a good surveyor. But after this job I may never see him again. The GC's that call can throw him enough work for a carreer. Not a shovel has been used and it is already 7,000 in professional fees and not going to stop anytime soon. It may be a lot friendlier to build elsewhere. The only spots that are worse ( IMHO)are lots in plannned communities, lake tahoe, california in general. I have looked at lots/ real estate there too.

 

[Rebel_Horseman]

Well let me throw my $0. 02 into the mix. My business is construction, of all types residential, commercial, agricultural, etc. ). One very important factor is one that is most often overlooked. Ask yourself, how much is my time worth? If you do decide to build your own home, you will likely save some money, but you will also have to spend a large amount of time organizing and managing the project. While you may save yourself several grand, you may also spend an extreme amount of time dealing with issues that come about during every construction project. The materials you ordered are not onsite for construction, there's an inspector that has not approved your plumbing rough-in, the materials that were delivered yesterday are gone because some idiot mistook your home for the local lumber yard, etc. There are tons of issues that must be dealt with on a daily basis and your time will get eaten up quickly. A project that may take a builder 2 months to complete may end up taking you 8. Secondly, when you build your own house there will have to be maintenance and repairs on it over time. If you hire a builder they give you a warranty and they will fix whatever is wrong. WARNING, all warranties are not the same. The company I represent is a nationwide builder and we do everything from a tun-key project to building shells so that the owner can contract out his own interior finish work. Each and every project we do is a custom-built structure. PM me and I would gladly give you more in-depth info about this subject.



If it was my decision, I'd do my own contracting, but that is because I've been in a general contracting setting for some time now and I have a semi-decent feel for how the process works and the pit-falls involved. For those that do not have the background in construction, or who's time is extremely valuable, I'd suggest leaving the building work to the pros who do it every day. Just my $0. 02.



Brian [><]

 

[klenger]

When we moved to Tucson a year ago we had a house built in a "planned community". I wanted a modern, energy efficient, low maintenance house in a convenient location. I had two options, buy a place with a little bit of land and have a house built or buy a "production home" in a planned community. It didn't take me too long to reason that a custom home would cost considerably more money for the same home. You also need to consider well and septic system if you get too far out of town. As much as I would like to have a place with enough land to park my camper at my house, it just didn't make sense for me. We are happy with the house, but the HOA is already on my case about my satellite antenna (which is totally legal), and other petty infractions (which were not even true). If you buy in a convenant controlled community, make sure you read and fully understand the CC&R's and know that you can live with them, even if they are not currenlty enforcing them when you buy. Every covenant controlled community will have at least one rule Natzi, or maybe a whole committe of them.



Here's a link to our web page for our house.



http://www.klenger.net/civano/index.html

 

[smartineau]

Vaughn,



join the crowd we have been looking down in Lewis County Chehalis/Centralia area under $325,000 (ouch!! and we do not like what we see) and we are about to say the heck with it and build. we are looking at becoming our own general contractors and doing some of the work ourselves.



Like most everyone said as I glanced through the long posts. Don't by in a Planned development, it is too much of a PITA.



If you find a good trustworthy contractor you can build a real nice 1500 square foot house that does not feel small and has all the amenities. You may then have enough money leftover to build a nice big shop for NWBombers parties.



Buy building you will get more of what you want even if you only go 901 square feet. Like today down looking at houses we were tearing out a wall and redoing the kitchen on a 2 year old house because we hated the layout. Don't rush into a house that you will hate and talk to me at the next NWB gathering or give me a call, we have been doing research on building.



steve

 

[Andy Perreault]

Shoot, Vaughn, if we all lived closer, we could have a good ol' fashioned "barn raisin' party" like they did way back when. Only we'd call it a "house buildin' party" and then we'd come back later and have a "shop buildin' party".

Andy

 

[willyslover]

Andy . . you got the order backwards. . shop needs to be there before the house he could always live in a shop while building [ just make sure it's big enough and insulated maybe an overhead second story apartment type of deal. . then he has space for friends to "drop in" afterword LOL ]

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well guys I finally had time to sit down and read all your advice! Thanks so much for sharing!



I talked with some people and called a couple GCs yesterday and I think they did pretty well to talk me out of building my own. As much as I'd like to go that route the likelihood I'll get burned on it one way or another due to my lack of experience. If I found a nice lot and had a home built and roughed-in I think I could do quite well, and be choosy with my lumber. But I can't take the risk of being burned. And I haven't called around to lenders yet to see what my financing would look like.



With that in mind I'm going to keep looking, for an older place like Doc said. As far as the housing boom it has been cooling off here since it started earlier than the rest of the US. I am putting mine up for sale this week and if I get it sold I'd be in a great position to barter down on another one.



Back to communities, I have looked at a lot of them and some are clearly shoddy in materials and workmanship, some look very good. I've looked for warped 2x4s and they're easy to find in some places but not on others.



I went back to Desert Estates since they had the best-looking construction and materials in my price range and found a couple of nice lots that opened up in their next phase that's starting. One lot has a decent view and is 16,200 sq/ft. It is pretty level then drops away right behind the property so any future development wouldn't obstruct the view. It's at the edge of the development so at least I wouldn't be in a row of cookie-cutter homes and I'd have one of the biggest lots.



I got a copy of the covenants and asked about parking boats and RVs outside. They allow boats & RVs parked in driveways, and RVs can be parked alongside the house. The covenants are 4-5 pages long and I'm going to read it over with a fine-tooth comb. I did go ahead and put a $500 hold on the lot which is good for 2 weeks and I get it back if I change my mind, but at least it protects it while I think about what I'm doing



Thanks again you guys and I'll keep you posted. If you want to see here's the website of homes being built at Desert Estates. Click Floor Plans and I'm considering the 1709 or 1806 rambler and the 1983 2-story. When I get a chance I'll take some pictures of the area and post them. http://www.silverstarhomebuilders.com/main.html



Vaughn

 

[Andy Perreault]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

The covenants are 4-5 pages long and I'm going to read it over with a fine-tooth comb.

Do they mention whether or not "BOMB parties" are allowed?

Andy

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Andy, I'll find out. Next time I'm out there I'll say to the rep, "Diana, are BOMB parties allowed in Desert Estates?" :-laf



Vaughn

 

[Power Wagon]

Vaughn...



the people you need are at www.iheonline.com



They will help you design, build, finance a house, and YOU can build it yourself. You can do a lot of the work, to save money, or just be the contractor.



It's one of the better ways to build your own house.



Best of all... they generally get it done for little money down.

 

[HVAC]

16,200 Sq. Ft.

Vaughn,



That "Diesel Estates" sounds like a good choice



16,200 sq ft is a quarter acre dude!

 

[klenger]

16,200 sq ft is a quarter acre dude!

Now that would give me a place to park the camper, a shop, an indoor pool, ...