New Member, Needs Help!

[DonTX]

How about that?

Well, looks like I should be looking for a new end plug and a three sided socket! I spent quite a while today in the books, never does it even mention that plug or what it does or how to install it. Somehow the symptoms and situation seems to fit this problem, and it needs to be addressed before pulling a pump anyhow. .

I think I will just pull an injector and loosen the line to allow me to put the injector on and pop test it. As noted previously, popping some OTHER injector still would leave me with uncertainty what is happening to mine. If the slight increase in cranking speed pops it, it will pop the others too and start with one out! (Fat chance I think).

Lots of logic in going backwards seems to point to this plug. Comments?

 

[rlyons]

If you have not already done so I would still pull the shutdown solenoid before going any further. The tip may have broken off and be lodged in the passage way causing a hard start? I say easy to hard way.

 

[DonTX]

You are right I believe.

I definitely am going to pull that solenoid before the pump rlyons. Just too many people in the know have been fooled by that bugger before me, and the rebuilders sure consider them suspect the same way. It appears I am sleuthing a flow/volume/pressure equation now. All indicators are that I have flow, just how much and at how high of pressure is the questions. Even though I get it bled ok at the injector, I have never measured the flow at cranking speeds. Pressure testing will commence today or tomorrow.

I am really fixated on that front plug/seal thing right now too. It is just the type thing that would explain the rapid deterioration of pressure I seem to be experiencing (although the solenoid falling apart would do the same of course)

 

[Greenleaf]

Phillips 5 mentioned that this part is about $20. 00 (??) I have ever replaced one, so I can't quote on the price from my experience. However from the looks of it (machined piece and all) it looks to be four times that price. I know Bosch and they ain't cheep on anything. from my experience, the washer that seals that thing in the (high pressure) head would be $20. 00 alone



GL

 

[DonTX]

VE Pump

Here are a couple of photos of the plug and where it goes on a VE type pump, furnished by another TDR member. You can see it would form a very critical seal between the end of the main shaft and the pump cavity, as well as the other pump channels (the four slots in the center shaft. He also said it looked that the shaft was probably far harder than the plug, so it would sacrifice the plug if contaminated. It is my opinion, that this may well need retorqued from time to time to compensate for wear in the pump. Wish I had a GOOD VE repair manual, I don't know how much to torque one if I had it in my hand. Oh yeah, a 1 in 12 point socket tapped on seems to be adequate to remove it. Bet a good 6 point of the correct size would be ideal tool. I wonder if there is a Bosch repair manual somewheres?

 

[phillips5]

I could mail the socket to you if needed. The inj shop should be able to give you the torque. The last one I bought was 20 something and it was 15 years ago.

 

[DonTX]

Thanks for the offer phillips5, let me look around for one of my own first.

 

[McLaughlin]

Regarding the Fuel Shutdown Solenoid, I'm just curious if this is pretty much a standardized part?



The 97 service manual indicates the solenoid has two coils, the high amperage coil pulls about 40 Amps at 12V and is used to provide max fuel during cranking. Following engine start, the second coil is used to hold the solenoid shaft in the "up" positon. It further states that if the solenoid is replaced the shaft length has to be adjusted. If the solenoid is similar on your vehicle, could the problem be the shaft has "slipped" down or is out of adjustment due to wear and is restricting the fuel flow while not cutting it off all the way?

 

[PSchwering]

Regarding the Fuel Shutdown Solenoid, I'm just curious if this is pretty much a standardized part?



The 97 service manual indicates the solenoid has two coils, the high amperage coil pulls about 40 Amps at 12V and is used to provide max fuel during cranking. Following engine start, the second coil is used to hold the solenoid shaft in the "up" positon. It further states that if the solenoid is replaced the shaft length has to be adjusted. If the solenoid is similar on your vehicle, could the problem be the shaft has "slipped" down or is out of adjustment due to wear and is restricting the fuel flow while not cutting it off all the way?

That's for a P7100 inline injection pump. It's not the same for the VE pumps. P.

 

[DonTX]

Are they saying that there are two positions of that type valve, wide open for starting and partially open for running? That sure is what they seem to say, but that also seems very silly.

 

[McLaughlin]

Are they saying that there are two positions of that type valve, wide open for starting and partially open for running? That sure is what they seem to say, but that also seems very silly.

Yep, thats what the 97 service manual says. Seems silly to me also.



But like PSchwering pointed out, and you well know, we are talking of two entirely different injection pumps and that is why I asked if the solenoids were pretty much standard. I really just asked the question because I was curious and because I hadn't seen anyone mention a "dual" coil before or that the shaft length was adjustable. We'd all feel pretty stupid if the shaft adjustment "slipped" and was causing the problem. Most of the guys providing suggestions have so much more knowledge then me that I'm lost about 1/2 the time.

 

[1stgen4evr]

Three sided plug part number. 1-463-461-311 List is now $44. 00



Our tech was very critical of field maintainance on this part. If you do it be certain it is super super super clean. Torque is 55 lbs.



I have experienced numerous solonoid failures in the windings and damage at the tip. They don't respond to ether. When they die, they are gone for good. Had one that shorted internally and near burned the truck.



James

 

[DonTX]

By golly it is worth the price just to see what the heck it looks like on the other side. Thanks for the part number and the torque setting. Heck, I might just pull the darned thing and look it over before ordering a new one just to see if it appears worn or scored or whatever happens to them. After all, nothing else seems to be fixing it. .

 

[PSchwering]

Are they saying that there are two positions of that type valve, wide open for starting and partially open for running? That sure is what they seem to say, but that also seems very silly.

The P7100 does not have a "valve" per say. It has an electric solenoid with a rod attached to pull a shutoff lever on the side of the pump. It has 2 coils, one is a "Pull in" coil, that is energized during cranking, & a "Hold In" coil that is energized when the key is in the run position. But I digress, that system could not be more different than what Don has. P.

 

[DonTX]

I know it has nothing to do with mine, but have just become curious as to workings of ALL injection pumps, my knowledge of them is poor, and they are such a complex, interesting mechanism

 

[phillips5]

Don. You will need a magnifing glass to see any damage on the seeting serfaces of that plug. Make sure that you brake cleen or either or megapowerwash that end of the pump befor disasembly.

 

[DonTX]

For sure. If I find any damage apparent to the plug, then the look in there and clean is even amplified more. Gotta spend tomorrow on a different type pump, it is a VI for Very Important. My heart surgeon wants to check me over, wish he would do my Injection pump, he is GOOD! :-laf :-laf .

 

[DavidGardner]

Good luck on the Dr. appt. Hope everythi g checks out ok. Keep us posted on the other problem. I have been following this thread since it began and I am curious to know how it turns out.



Dave Gardner

 

[DonTX]

Results

No results yet, my next order of business is as follows:

1. Tach the cranking speed.

2. See if an injector squirts into a bottle.

2. 5. If there is no squirting, remove start/stop solenoid

3. Check the return line to see if there are bubbles in it.



Then check the return pressure valve in the pump. Several have indicated that would cause my problem, if it is stuck and not allowing pressure in the IP body. After than, pulling that three sided plug in the middle of the injector lines, then pulling the pump if all the above yeilds nothing.

Stay tuned! :-laf

 

[Nyoest]

Any news Don?