New Mobil 5W40 Synthectic

[RustyJC]

The 5 in 5W-40 says that the oil has the viscosity of a 5 weight oil at 100 degF. This, along with pour point, is an indicator of the oil's ability to flow and lubricate at cold startup and initial operation.



The 40 in 5W-40 says that the oil has the viscosity of a 40 weight oil at 210 degF and is one indicator of the oil's ability to lubricate at high operating temperatures.



The difference between 100 degF and 210 degF viscosity of the base oil determines the base oil's viscosity index. Depending on the base oil's viscosity index, the manufacturer/reblender will add viscosity improvers to the base oil to bring the final viscosity spread to whatever is desired for the final product.



In a conventional "dino" oil, more viscosity improver is required to achieve a wide spread in rated viscosity (35 in the case of the oil in question - 40 minus 5). There was concern about this in conventional oils because these viscosity improvers were subject to shearing and deterioration over time.



Due to the better viscosity index of synthetics, less viscosity improver is required to achieve wider viscosity spreads. Therefore, although a 5W-40 "dino" oil might be suspect for extended operation, a 5W-40 synthetic might (and probably would) be fine.



Hope this helps.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Now that we have moved to an area with considerably lower average temps - especially in the winter - I am a bit more open to consideration of the 5/40 stuff. BUT, 2 factors sorta muddy the water - one is that I have recently pretty much decided to go with 12 month oil change intervals based on the average annual miles we put on the truck - about 12K per year. That means that whatever oil I settle on will be in the crankcase year round, winter AND summer. Second, is the fact that the truck is primarily used as a tow vehicle for our 5th wheel RV - and the times of year it's used in that service FREQUENTLY see long hard pulls up steep grades in ambient temps up in the 90+ degree range.



I sorta worry that a 5/40, synthetic or otherwise, can really provide as good a level of protection under those conditions as a 15/40 can...

 

[curatchko]

The 5w in is the cold viscosity. When the oil is at engine temp, it is 40 weight oil... . 5/10/15 has NOTHING to do with how thick the oil is...

 

[Rosco]

Gary,



I had the same thoughts of hot weather operation myself before I switched to Delvac1. However, you need to accept the fact that when hot, a 5w40 synthetic oil has the same viscosity as a 15w40 dino oil but flows better when cold. You actually benefit in all seasons with the synthetic 5w40. Plus, If your going to only do one oil change a year the synthetic makes even more sense.



I made the switch to Delvac1 for a couple of reasons. One is because my job requires a couple of overnight shifts every week and I don't have the luxury of being able to plug in my block heater. Second, I firmly belive the synthetic 5w40 will provide better protection for my engine when towing my fifth wheel camper on the hottest summer days.



Also, for some of the newer members reading this topic who may have seen Shell RotellaT synthetic 5w40 for a cheaper price than what Delvac1 costs there is a reason. The RotellaT synthetic is not a pure synthetic. It's hard to explain, but the Delvac1 is pure 100% Synthetic oil while the RotellaT is basically a highly refined dino oil. I am not saying the RotellaT 5w40 is a bad oil, I am just saying they are different animals.

 

[LightmanE300]

Rusty JC, thats why I said a 'high quality' synthetic. Due to their PAO basestocks they require less viscosity improvers.



Gary again - at high temps a 5w40 is the same thickness as a 15w40. Also consider that a synthetic is far less susceptible to coking when we forget and shut the truck down with a hot turbo. As far as time goes, I ran d1 in my MB for 13 months and changed it due to time , not mileage, and the oil analysis came back great. In a conventional oil, the acidity and other factors probably would have mandated change a lot earlier. You get what you pay for - there's a reason d1 costs more than rotella.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK, OK - you've convinced me!



Only one other factor - with my Frantz bypass filter, and planned extended drain interval, I swap out the Frantz element every 2000 miles and hafta add a fresh quart of replacement oil - this means that in 12,000 miles, replacement oil in addition to the original crankcase fill starts adding up dollar wise when more costly lubes are used - and at SOME point, ya gotta start choosing as to what measures are REALLY cost effective in terms of expected added benefit...

 

[Rosco]

OK, OK - you've convinced me!



Only one other factor - with my Frantz bypass filter, and planned extended drain interval, I swap out the Frantz element every 2000 miles and hafta add a fresh quart of replacement oil - this means that in 12,000 miles, replacement oil in addition to the original crankcase fill starts adding up dollar wise when more costly lubes are used - and at SOME point, ya gotta start choosing as to what measures are REALLY cost effective in terms of expected added benefit...

Gary,



You kind of contradicting yourself. On one hand you have a Frantz bypass filter that you will change the element in every 2000 miles (is that the required interval?) to keep the engine all nice and clean. But on the other hand your not sure if you want to drop the cash on Delvac1.



Personally,I think running the Delvac1 for a whole year and only racking up 12,000 miles is nothing for that oil even with stock filtration. If I were you and that Frantz can go longer than 2,000 miles between element changes I would do the factory oil filter at 6mos/6,000 miles and the Frantz element when specified by the manufacturer or when you dump out the crankcase for your yearly oil change. On the other hand, If the Frantz does require 2,000 mile element changes then I would just get rid of it because it seems to be more bother than it's worth.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"You kind of contradicting yourself. On one hand you have a Frantz bypass filter that you will change the element in every 2000 miles (is that the required interval?) to keep the engine all nice and clean. But on the other hand your not sure if you want to drop the cash on Delvac1. "



No contradiction at all - your comments are sorta apples/oranges as it relates to my bypass filter use. The synthetic displays better flow rates and heat resistance - but is STILL as susceptable to *wear particle* accumulation and contamination as any other oil type - and THAT is what the bypass oil filter is for - superior filtration of engine lube REGARDLESS of oil type!



And yes, my particular filter is rated to go about 2 to 2. 5K between changes for best operation.



"If the Frantz does require 2,000 mile element changes then I would just get rid of it because it seems to be more bother than it's worth. "



NOT if you fully understand what the actual function of the bypass IS - and I have a number of oil analysis sheets the very well PROVE mine is doing exactly what it is supposed to do - I wonder how many Synthetic oil users have SIMILAR proof that their chosen oil is REALLY delivering the added engine life or benefits they are buying it for...

 

[Jeremiah]

Delvac cost

Klenger, the price is $70 plus change for three GALLONS, not quarts. Still expensive, but not that expensive since we're talking about 12 quarts.

 

[LightmanE300]

Gary - want to see my last oil analysis with d1 and my amsoil bypass? It's stellar. PM me your email address if you like, or take my word it's fantastic. Bypass systems are great - although I doubt the cost effectivness of those toilet paper type systems you have to change every few k. What a pain and environmental disaster that is. Ahh to each their own!



Also, assuming you have a 3rd gen, 12k miles isn't an extended drain interval, and with as little driving you do, running 12k a year on d1 and stock filtration seems like the obvious choice. Was the bypass system just a fun project? I can't see how you justified it.



Finally, regardless of cost Gary, if you are seeing starts below 15F, I'd get the synthetic.

 

[Cooker]

Cooker, how do you suppose you know what your oil temperature is? The block heater only heats the coolant.

I have an engine oil temperature gauge



Correct the block heater only heats the coolant. The oil does absorb some of the radiant heat of the coolant and warms it up slightly depending on the ambient air temp and the amount of time the block heater is left plugged in.

 

[LightmanE300]

I have an engine oil temperature gauge



Correct the block heater only heats the coolant. The oil does absorb some of the radiant heat of the coolant and warms it up slightly depending on the ambient air temp and the amount of time the block heater is left plugged in.

That would be a nice gauge to have!



There's a company that makes stick-on oil pan heaters that are reasonably priced and stay put. A lot of guys run them on their tdi's. Basically like a heating pad with heavy adhesive on one side, and a cord/plug. Sure would be nice to somehow integrate that and the block heater into one plug or get a dual extension cord to really have it nice and warm in the mornings.

 

[mberry]

Gentlemen,



Cost not withstanding, Isn't what we are talking about here is maximum protection for cold starts and better lubrication at operating temperature?



To me cost is only a part of the bigger picture. We spent how much money for these trucks and we are debating the cost of oil? Just doesn't make sense to me but you are all welcome to your opinions and I am not intending to offend anyone here with my remarks.



Consider for a minute the cost of the initial outlay for the synthetic oil. $70. 00 isn't too bad. Then lets say that you use 12 quarts a year when you service your bypass system. That's another $23. 00 roughly? So for the year you would have spent $93. 00 on oil using Gary as an example. If you are getting great performance from your bypass system, then imho, the cost of oil is negligible to the protection and peace of mind the synthetic would gain you. Please do your own cost/benefit analysis and let me know what you come up with. Peace of mind to me is more important than the saving of dino oil versus synthetic.



And on the environmental issue, please recycle.

 

[mhenon]

Synthetic oil/ Frantz by-pass

First of all... . If you have the Frantz installed... . don't get rid of it. I've had mine on for 10k miles (on the advise of Gary) and it's staying on. The oil is as clear after 2k miles as the day you put it in. I usually go to 2500 or more before changing the TP... . but love this thing. Really think it would go 3k or 4k miles but you kinda get used to nice clean looking oil.

I've been running Delvac one 5W/40 syn for about 25k miles and am very happy with it. Towing temp's came down, noticably, and mileage went up a little. This stuff runs cool and is very slippery. It might be more valuable in hot weather than cold.

As I now have the by-pass filter in place and add a quart every filter change... I'm not sure there's any reason to "ever" drain the oil. Have to see how I feel after 25k or 30k miles on the oil.

Thanks Gary. . for your great article on the Frantz filter installation. It's the best add-on I can think of. I highly reccomend some sort of oil by-pass system.

Mike

 

[amsoilman]

Gary,

I've mentioned tis to you before, but I will do it again. I have a customer that uses the Amsoil 15W-40 in his 2000 Ford 7. 3 L Diesel. He does not have a by-pass Oil Filter, and he put just over 20,000 on the oil before changing it and having the oil analyzed. The report came back stating he had 98 ppm copper, but the oil was still "Suitable for continued use"!

I'm sure if you are using the Frantz by-pass, you should certainly be able to go much further than 20,000 miles.



Didn't I send you the API paper where they had conducted a complete series of tests on a PAO based 5W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, which the conclusion was:



CONCLUSIONS:



QUOTE/ An SAE 5W-40 synthetic heavy duty diesel engine oil exceeding CG-4, CF-4, CF-2, CF, SH, and EC performance specifications has been developed. Results from this study indicate that formulating an optimized high performance additive system utilizing synthetic base stocks provides a product with a combination of unique physical properties, and laboratory and field engine performance attributes. The high level of performance documented for SYN-DEO in standard and extended-length engine tests was further demonstrated in field testing using greatly extended oil drain intervals. The successful performance of SYN-DEO in severe fleet service confirms the potential for premium synthetic diesel engine oils in extended service applications. Application of this technology offers numerous significant benefits to engine users.



The extraordinary rheological characteristics of SYN-DEO make it well suited for applications where low temperature engine operation or high temperature oil stability are of concern. The outstanding pumping and cranking performance of this product offers excellent low temperature starting performance. At the same time, the synthetic base stocks provide a product with kinematic and high-temperature high-shear viscosities at levels typical of premium SAE 15W-40 mineral oils. Additionally, the high temperature volatility of SYN-DEO is well below that of most multigrade diesel engine oils.



2. When used at standard oil drain intervals, SYN-DEO will provide a substantial performance reserve in the areas of soot dispersancy, viscosity stability, sludge and deposit control, engine wear, and oxidation stability, with reduced Oil consumption and improved fuel economy, all of which should contribute to extended engine life.





Many units have operated on SYN-DEO in heavy-duty, long-haul service at extended oil drain intervals, with some units on drain intervals beyond 100,000 miles. Even under these conditions, SYN-DEO has consistently provided measurable benefits in terms of improved engine performance. END QUOTE/



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Rosco]

Gary,



I guess my post was taken the wrong way. What I was trying to say is that if you not going to run a synthetic because of the additional cost for the oil needed at every bypass filter change then I would skip the bypass filtration and just use the synthetic oil along with factory filtration. This is especially true with the mileage interval your using.



Also, I am not ignorant when it comes to the theory behind bypass filtration. As a matter of fact, I find most guy's use them in conjuctuon with a synthetic oil so as to get the maximum miles out of their expensive synthetic oil. However, I do feel that changing an element every 2000 miles is wasteful and unnecessary. If I was in your shoes, I would find a bypass system that has a longer filter change interval and use both the synthetic and the bypass.



Finally, these are are mine opinions only. They're not meant to anger anyone but rather be used as a different perspective while trying to decide what your best course of action is.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Was the bypass system just a fun project? I can't see how you justified it. "



WELL, if you consider oil analysis reports like the one below as simply a "fun project", then so be it - go ahead and post yours I'd like to see it...



#ad




As far as swapping out the 80 cent TP cartridge and adding a quart of $1. 65 Delo - yeah, that's a pretty tough and expensive chore, but I can handle it just fine...



AND finally, in spite of all the statements as to claimed greater engine life with synthetics, I don't doubt there are SOME gains in longevity - but I doubt they are radical - and I have yet to see any long-term documented side-by-side lab or over the road tests, so really have no basis to make a lube switch based primarily on expected longer engine life.



For the time being, the Delo 400 and the troublesome Frantz will have to do the job...

 

[LightmanE300]

Gary, I doubt your bypass system or mine will 'radically' extend the life of the engine compared to normal maintenance either, so you ruling out synthetic on the same grounds is pretty silly.



You didn't list how long you went on the oil on the above analysis report.

 

[curatchko]

Gary,



I had a Frantz in my 99. Think I still have it laying around.



Anyhow, Even if you change it every 2000 miles, in the grand scheme of things, 5 dollars in oil every 2000 miles is pretty insignificant isn't it??? I drink more than 5 bucks in coffee every couple days.

 

[Cooker]

WELL, if you consider oil analysis reports like the one below as simply a "fun project", then so be it - go ahead and post yours I'd like to see it...

It looks like the oil might have thickened up a bit over the course of that change. With an SUS of 92. 4 it has thickened to a 50 weight oil