New Mobil 5W40 Synthectic

[Gary - K7GLD]

"It looks like the oil might have thickened up a bit over the course of that change. With an SUS of 92. 4 it has thickened to a 50 weight oil "



Hmmmmm - I notice you carefully avoided comment on the wear #'s in the report - and the "thickening" is due to addition of STP (yeah - snakeoil!) to my oil - before ya ***** about the STP, look at the wear numbers in the analysis again...



When ya gonna post YOUR analysis #'s?





"5 dollars in oil every 2000 miles is pretty insignificant isn't it???"



HMmmmm - how did an 80 cent TP cartridge and a $1. 65 quart of oil suddenly, magically become $5 - is that some of that "new math"?



"Gary, I doubt your bypass system or mine will 'radically' extend the life of the engine compared to normal maintenance either, so you ruling out synthetic on the same grounds is pretty silly.



You didn't list how long you went on the oil on the above analysis report. "



Perhaps - but we're comparing a filter I've had for over 40 years, paid around $35 for at the time of purchase, used on a half dozen different vehicles, and costs mere pennies to change, against expensive oils that cost from $5 to *10 a *QUART*...



Still seem a "silly" comparison to you?



That particular analysis was typical at 7000 miles as taken on my '91 Dodge with well over 100,000 miles on it - I'm still breaking in the '02 - but numbers ar VERY close as the miles increase...





Here's the last Blackstone analysis on the '02 - at a similar oil-use mileage as the above, about 27,000 miles on the truck:



====

Aluminum = 1

Chromium = 1

Iron = 12

Copper = 2

Lead = 3

Tin = 1

Molybdenum = 0

Nickel = 0

Manganese = 0

Silver = 0

Titanium = 0

Potassium = 0

Boron = 0

Silicon = 3

Sodium = 2

Calcium = 3488

Magnesium = 4

Phosphorous = 1182

Zinc = 1348

Barium = 0

Viscosity @ 210 degrees = 84. 4 (slightly high due to my use of STP)

Flashpoint = 435

Antifreeze = 0

Water = 0

Insolubles = <0. 1

====



BUT HEY - you guys keep the comments coming - in over 40 years, I've pretty much heard and responded to them all, MANY times...

 

[Cooker]

Hmmmmm - I notice you carefully avoided comment on the wear #'s in the report - and the "thickening" is due to addition of STP (yeah - snakeoil!) to my oil - before ya ***** about the STP, look at the wear numbers in the analysis again...



When ya gonna post YOUR analysis #'s?

Gary,

The wear numbers looks great, so what? I did not question the effectivness of your bypass filter. That is all your oil analysis is showing to me, that the Frantz does a great job at filtering particulate matter. Your one (edit: now two) oil analysis does nothing for me to prove that you are using the best oil for your application and it certainly says nothing about the effectiveness of the STP.

 

[Cooker]

As if this even matters...



Here is an oil analysis I dug up. The oil used for this sample was Mobil Delvac 1300 15w40 (non-synthetic). I'll only post the wear numbers to keep this simple.



3704 miles on oil

Iron 8

Chromium 2

Aluminum 6

Nickel, Lead, Copper, Tin, Titanium, Silver 0



This is with no bypass filter and no filter changes.



It looks like I have you beat

 

[amsoilman]

Gentlemen,



Cost not withstanding, Isn't what we are talking about here is maximum protection for cold starts and better lubrication at operating temperature?



To me cost is only a part of the bigger picture. We spent how much money for these trucks and we are debating the cost of oil? Just doesn't make sense to me but you are all welcome to your opinions and I am not intending to offend anyone here with my remarks.



Consider for a minute the cost of the initial outlay for the synthetic oil. $70. 00 isn't too bad. Then lets say that you use 12 quarts a year when you service your bypass system. That's another $23. 00 roughly? So for the year you would have spent $93. 00 on oil using Gary as an example. If you are getting great performance from your bypass system, then imho, the cost of oil is negligible to the protection and peace of mind the synthetic would gain you. Please do your own cost/benefit analysis and let me know what you come up with. Peace of mind to me is more important than the saving of dino oil versus synthetic.



And on the environmental issue, please recycle.

VERY WELL said! This is what it cost me for 105,000 miles! This was done on a 1994 CTD over a span of 5 years.



1 Change X 11= 11 Qts. /2. 75 Gals.



3 Gal @ $18. 20 = $ 54. 60



1 By-pass oil system = $159. 00

3 By-pass spin-on filters = $84. 00

3 Full Flow Filters = $50. 70

10 Analysis @ $10. 50 =$105. 00

12 Qts Make up oil @ $55. 20 = $ 55. 20



TOTAL COSTS= $ 508. 50



Keep in mind, these prices are RETAIL to keep things in perspective, and as far as peace of mind, the 10 oil analysis I had certainly did that, as I NEVER did drain the oil until 105,000 miles, and that was because I wanted to use a 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel oil to see how good it was. I put an additional 45,000 miles on the truck before it was sold. The 5W-30 was still in it at that time.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Jeremiah]

Convenience

Gentlemen, I think we're picking nits. The issue for me is convenience. Not everyone has time to keep records, do oil analysis, etc. Therefore, I use synthetic but don't run it for years like amsoilman or some of the other folks who are really into the oil thing. I admire these guys but life is complicated enough without my truck complicating it more.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AHHhhh - don't we all just LOVE these frequently surfacing "oil wars"!



NOT to pick on Wayne in the least - because he is one of my favorire gentlemen on the board - but he has provided the CLASSIC example of a no-holds-barred synthetic lube user.



Look at his own example again:



"1 Change X 11= 11 Qts. /2. 75 Gals.



3 Gal @ $18. 20 = $ 54. 60



1 By-pass oil system = $159. 00

3 By-pass spin-on filters = $84. 00

3 Full Flow Filters = $50. 70

10 Analysis @ $10. 50 =$105. 00

12 Qts Make up oil @ $55. 20 = $ 55. 20



TOTAL COSTS= $ 508. 50

"





And WHY is THAT a "classic" example? HERE'S why:



"This is what it cost me for 105,000 miles!"



Wayne selected and carefully used the very BEST of lubes and added support equipment, did frequent oil analysis - and then TRADED off his truck WELL before it was much more than broken in...



So exactly WHAT did that extra $508. 50 *do* for him?



Sure, I realize that even ordinary lubes used at the recommended change intervals add up - but they too can be used safely in extended service, just as I am currently doing with DELO 400 - so that "advantage" of synthetics largely disappears...



We are all aware of the legendary lifespan of the Cummins, and extremely high mileages on these engines is pretty common EVEN WITH ordinary lubes and mediocre attention to service intervals - and THEN the owner usually trades it off LONG before any significant wear has occurred - so why bother or incur the added, unnecessary expense - UNLESS you ARE one of the long-term, high mileage users?



SURE, I know I am sorta arguing against myself and my own use of a Frantz bypass filter that also involves added expense and effort, but I *hope* to be keeping my truck for the long haul, and DID already have the filter from earlier times, so installation and use was sort of an "experiment" as was suggested above. But comparitively speakng, it IS a rather low level and low cost experiment as compared to Wayne's example...



But for the AVERAGE truck owner, one who drives perhaps 12,000 miles a year and trades vehicles every 2-3 years, either the use of the synthetics OR the bypass filters such as my Frantz, are likely a total waste of time and money! And I for one, have carefully pointed that out before, even in my own threads promoting the use of the Frantz bypass filter!



As owners, we do many things to our trucks that translate more to personal satisfaction than to practical benefit (warm, fuzzy feeling stuff!) - my fancy stainless exhaust extension won't provide the slightest added engine life or performance - and DID cost more than an oil change - but it LOOKS purty and makes my happy, just as many other mods to my truck do. As long as we look objectively at these actions, and realize what the bottom line in their use ACTUALLY provides, we can maintain reasonable balance in these discussions.



But to a fair number of members here, added lube expense due to oils used or other related items, on an engine that will outlast the owner or the time period he will likely retain ownership, simply isn't one of them!



Consider the above before ya rush out to buy a case or two of that high-priced lube!

 

[amsoilman]

Gary,

I do appreciate the kind words! Your questioning the "advantage" of the synthetics and what my "extra" costs were for that 105,000 miles?

Sure, I realize that even ordinary lubes used at the recommended change intervals add up - but they too can be used safely in extended service, just as I am currently doing with DELO 400 - so that "advantage" of synthetics largely disappears... QUOTE]



Lets see now, if we use a regular dino lube, and change every 5,000 miles, that equals 11 Qts and a filter at every change. Now lets do some math here. In 105,000 miles (my example) that is 21 oil changes. 21 X 11 qts. equals 231 qts of oil (just short of a 55 GAL drum) Now add the 21 oil filters as well.



If you were to buy oil at $1. 50/qt. that would be 231 X $1. 50 equals $319. 50.

Add the 21 filters at say $7. 00 ea. 21 X $7. 50 equals $157. 50. or a total cost of $477. 00. There isn't a BIG difference here, until you consider I also did an oil analysis every 10,000 miles, and I know what was going on INSIDE the engine. I also did not have to get rid of 21 oil filters or 231 qts. of oil!



In my opinion, this is a very BIG plus!



Respectfully,



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[mberry]

Lets just table this discussion for now. Both Gary and Wayne have made excellent points. No more oil wars on this board please. Lets change the subject... . So, who are you going to vote for and why?

 

[nkiewel]

Klenger, the price is $70 plus change for three GALLONS, not quarts. Still expensive, but not that expensive since we're talking about 12 quarts.

It is pricey, but it is also good stuff. Mills Fleet Farm, here in Minnesota, had the stuff on sale for $3. 99/qt last week so of course I bought the maximum 48 quarts allowed. 4 oil changes for 47. 88 + filter each. I should have sent my friends in with some money too...

 

[amsoilman]

Lets change the subject... . So, who are you going to vote for and why?

OK, but better go to another thread. However, I will say I am definately going to VOTE! and it will not be the other guy! Don't feel I want to change horses in the middle of the stream... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... we are at war!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[LightmanE300]

Gary, to me, it just sounds like your time isn't worth much money to you. It's clear the wear numbers are great, as with most bypass systems. However I just don't see why one would want to spend so much time and create so much more environmental waste, than getting a 'normal' bypass system like the amsoil that you have to touch 4 times less often? Your breakdown of however many years and the logic behind it just say you're pleased to have gotten away so cheaply. Again, congratulations on spending the least amount of money possible and the most amount of time working on your truck The wear numbers are good! LOL

 

[LightmanE300]

Here's the first oil run I did with synthetic, so I'm expecting the next report to be better, since it was purging a few dino juice deposits This time I tested after 10k, sent it off this morning so we'll see.



And I didn't even change a filter, hehe.



7500 miles on oil

20,000 miles on vehicle at time of sample

Wear metals

Fe 13

Ch 0

Pb 1

Co 4

Sn 0

Al 2

Ni 0

Ag 2

Si 3

Additives

Boron 35

Magnesium - 463

Calcium 2061

Barium 0

Phosphorus 1166

Zinc 1304

Moly, Titanium, Vanadium, Potassium 0



Fuel <1

Visc @100C 13. 76

Water 0

Soot 0. 1 %

TBN 9. 88

Oxidation 16. 0

Nitration 13. 0

F-soot 0. 01

 

[Jeremiah]

Zoning out over this stuff

I agree, the synthetic v. dino oil wars should be over. But I must say that guys who are into Amsoil have an almost cult-like loyalty to the stuff. I know a guy in Colorado Springs who takes it to bed with him! And when he starts talking about it during the daytime his eyes glaze over, he zones out and it's like he's speaking in unknown tongues. Gotta love 'em, right?

 

[amsoilman]

I agree, the synthetic v. dino oil wars should be over. But I must say that guys who are into Amsoil have an almost cult-like loyalty to the stuff. I know a guy in Colorado Springs who takes it to bed with him! And when he starts talking about it during the daytime his eyes glaze over, he zones out and it's like he's speaking in unknown tongues. Gotta love 'em, right?

Jeremiah,

I look at engine oils just like trucks. ALL engine oils lubricate and protect our engines, some are better than others. Just like our trucks, they ALL are capable to haul a load from point "A" to point "B". Some are better at doing that, some are not quite so good at it! We CTD owners feel we have the best there is to offer, and Ford Powerstoke guys think just the opposite!



I am not telling you or anyone else to go out and get what I use! I could care less what you use in your truck! I am just stating the facts when it comes to my own personel use, and the satisfaction I get from the what I am using. You can get the same satisfaction in what you are using, we ALL have that right.



Best Regards,



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[LightmanE300]

It is kinda weird how some Amsoil fans are so into it, it's like religion. I think they make some good products, some are just ok. I run Mobil Delvac 1 in my Amsoil bypass system, but run Amsoil's 0w40 4stroke oil in my quads. . No particular loyalty here.



I agree with wayne that all oils will get the job done, some will do it a little better. A little is the key phrase here, some people act like syn vs dino is such an incredibly huge difference, that people are morons to not be using it. That's a little nuts in my opinion - if it were THAT necessary cummins would require it. Take it all with a grain of salt and remember we're all here just enjoying discussing some truck stuff, no need for anyone to get heated .

 

[Jeremiah]

Calm down, Wayne. Like I said, you guys who sell Amsoil are fanatics over your product - and there's nothing wrong with that! I appreciate the enthusiasm and have even used the product before. Works good, but I never became a dealer because selling oil wasn't my thing! So that leaves me buying oil from somebody else at retail dollars.



Further, using Amsoil didn't improve my sex life. It didn't help me sleep at night, nor did it make me feel younger by using it in my truck. However, I'll have to ask my truck how it feels about it. Who knows, maybe it will tell me to become a dealer.



Not putting you down, pal, just having a little fun with people who believe strongly in their product. Keep up the good work!

 

[GerryDrake]

Synethics

We just bought a new VW Jetta TDI. The manual and the dealer are very emphatic about which oil needs to be used. There is a synthetic that I believe is made by Castrol, for VW, that they claim is the only oil that can be used in the engine, and as yet is ONLY available through the dealers. I bought a quart to carry in the trunk, and it was $6. 00 VW has their own grading (something like VW 505-2) ... They say that it will be available through other sources, but not yet. The manual is VERY strongly worded, saying that use of another oil will not only void the warranty but WILL CAUSE DAMAGE to the engine. Only requiring oil changes at 5K, 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K and on, the cost won't break me, but it would be nice to have the option. They wouldn't even cut me a penny discount on a case. Glad I like the car a lot...

 

[mhenon]

We just bought a new VW Jetta TDI. The manual and the dealer are very emphatic about which oil needs to be used. There is a synthetic that I believe is made by Castrol, for VW, that they claim is the only oil that can be used in the engine, and as yet is ONLY available through the dealers. I bought a quart to carry in the trunk, and it was $6. 00 VW has their own grading (something like VW 505-2) ... They say that it will be available through other sources, but not yet. The manual is VERY strongly worded, saying that use of another oil will not only void the warranty but WILL CAUSE DAMAGE to the engine. Only requiring oil changes at 5K, 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K and on, the cost won't break me, but it would be nice to have the option. They wouldn't even cut me a penny discount on a case. Glad I like the car a lot...

yeah, there's alot of talk about this "new" oil on Freds TDI page. What the heck could be in this stuff that makes it a " must have" oil. I'm sure it's a high quality synthetic. . but beyond that... sounds like hype. Anybody read the spec's on oil yet?

 

[amsoilman]

We just bought a new VW Jetta TDI. The manual and the dealer are very emphatic about which oil needs to be used. There is a synthetic that I believe is made by Castrol, for VW, that they claim is the only oil that can be used in the engine, and as yet is ONLY available through the dealers. I bought a quart to carry in the trunk, and it was $6. 00 VW has their own grading (something like VW 505-2) ... They say that it will be available through other sources, but not yet. The manual is VERY strongly worded, saying that use of another oil will not only void the warranty but WILL CAUSE DAMAGE to the engine. Only requiring oil changes at 5K, 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K and on, the cost won't break me, but it would be nice to have the option. They wouldn't even cut me a penny discount on a case. Glad I like the car a lot...

The VW 505-2 is a VW specification required for the TDI engine. It is supposed to address the EGR problems of contaminate build up within the engine. There are oils already on the market that meets this spec.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[jsimpson]

Anyone who doesn't yet use synthetic oil, probably wants to get rid of the electronic ignition in his gasser and go back to points and condensor. The performance gains alone are worth the price of synthetic. In my old motorhome, merely switching to synthetic allowed me to pull hills in third that used cause a downshift to second. Switching to synthetic in my Buick (without my wife's knowlege), caused her to ask when she got home from work, "did :-laf you put a supercharger on my car??? I got a 2 mpg fuel mileage increase in my motorhome with a switch to synthetic. Of course the more highly stressed the engine (motorhomes, heavy Buicks with V-6's) the more significant the gains, but even my Gold Wing showed noticable gains in performance, clutch action, and shifting ease when switched to synthetic. Space does not permit me to list all the gains I've had in over thirty years of synthetic oil use.