2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission New to this forum. Need some advice on a good tow performance upgrade!

[woodtrucker]

Nice to find this forum! I've done HOURS of research and a few posts, with no real decision yet for my needs. Just scouring the various forums for some advice.
I have an 02, 6 speed, with DDRP-02 lift pump, & torque dog module but stock on everything else (see sig). The tuner works really well on low end probably a lot like a smarty does from what I've researched.
I've also found that this forum seems to cater more to guys that do work with our trucks versus drag, pulling, or blowing coal...I'm looking for an improved towing rig. That's all.

My delimma:
I just need a little more umphf pulling my 8500# 5th wheel. If I don't hit about 2100 rpms pulling bottom of a hill, the truck falls on it's face.
ie:
3.55 gears
bottom of hill at 70mph+ puts me at 2100 rpms or better and I'll top most hills at 60-65mph and 1900rpms. This is great but, running 70mph is a little dangerous for me and family pulling the fiver. I'd love to dial it back just a little without truck falling on it's face...
Bottom of hill at 60-65mph puts me around 1900 and I'm downshifting and clinging on to life by the time I top the hill. 55mph at best and 5th gear just trying to hang on...
My options:
-Keep Bully Dog and buy some RV275's
-Upgrade to Smarty and see if it does a little better between 1800-2000rpms when towing
-add more boost. I hear hx35 and boost elbow will gain a little more boost and could make the difference. I like this option too b/c it's really cheap!!!

 

[VolsFan]

Hi, I have a nearly identical rig except mine has 4.10s. Had an edge comp and it was fun, just died back in the late summer/early fall. I don't miss it too much, it wasn't that great in the low end. I think the rv275s are a good and safe mod to the engine. I like a low rear for pulling but I average 15.5 mpg. 65 mph I'm running 2100 rpm. I haven't driven a cummins truck w/ 3.55 and manual trans, but the autos I have driven w 3.55 drove me nuts with how fast they would downshift at the slightest grade. Sounds like you are looking for a gear swap. A smarty and rv275s should help the bottom end. With 4.10s and rv275s my rig pulls anything I've thrown behind it like a champ. That being said I'd like to split the difference and go to a 3.73 for fuel efficiency but not sure the cost of the swap would justify the savings in fuel for me.

 

[NIsaacs]

I assume the Torque Dog is like an Edge EZ, it needs a boost elbow. What is your max boost now? I run an EZ with RV 275's for 10 years and 200k, I also tow a lot. It was awesome, 335hp/850tq to the ground. Some said my stock clutch would not work but mine did.

I wanted a little more passing power (I travel 2 lanes mostly) so I went with the Edge Juice w/Attitude and cts, I really like it. The passing power is amazing. It will get hot on a long grade now but very manageable. When my stock turbo dies I will upgrade it and should be fine then. Power level is 400/950 now. It is rare for me to drive over the speed limit, however I want to do that up hill or down and the new trucks just get more power....can't have them showing up the '01...:-laf

Nick

 

[SnoKing]

4:10 are to low for the manual transmission and it's OD ratio. Great for the Auto, not so great for the manual, unless it is just a tow rig. Smarty and stage one or RV275 injectors. SNOKING

 

[woodtrucker]

Thanks for the info. I think I might just go after the injectors and leave tuner I have on it. It's a pressure box that's 65HP I think. My max boost is normally around 20 psi. I've been as high as 23 psi but that was WOT uphill unloaded. I think I could buy a boost elbow and the injectors and go with that. I feel like that would get to where I want and that's fairly inexpensive for sure.

 

[SnoKing]

If your box does boost fooling, then put a needle valve in the line to the waste gate and up the boost to 28-30. SNOKING

 

[NIsaacs]

I think I could buy a boost elbow and the injectors and go with that. I feel like that would get to where I want and that's fairly inexpensive for sure.

Good plan, you will smile all the way to the top of the hill! The RV's really wake up the torque monster, it will pull hard. In general, they will also up your fuel mileage some. Now you just need an exhaust brake

Nick

 

[woodtrucker]

I like where your head is at Nick. That will be for next Christmas! Here's a pick of one of our favorite camping trips to the smokies last summer. I hope we'll be pulling to wilmington,nc this spring when I get a bad case of cabin fever...I like to see pictures of our trucks doing work not blowing coal....

 

[RustyJC]

I towed 5th wheels up to 16,000 lbs GVWR with our 2002 4x2 3500 ETH/DEE dually (Cummins HO, NV5600 6 speed) with 4.10 axle ratio - it was ordered strictly as a 5th wheel towing rig. The stock HO is, as you have found, programmed to be pretty dead below 2000-2100 RPM. I ran the Edge EZ box (which included a boost elbow as it has a boost fooler capability), DD Stage 2 injectors, BHAF, SBC CON O/FE clutch and 4" Jardine exhaust system on my truck which brought the rear wheel horsepower and torque to 347/762 uncorrected (roughly 400/900 at the flywheel with 15% drivetrain losses) and cured the dead area below 2000 RPM. This combo turned the truck into a towing beast - it would pull Sandia eastbound on I-40 east of Albuquerque, NM at 65 MPH in 6th gear (about 2175 RPM) dragging our previous 16K GVWR 2004 Mobile Suites 36RE3 5th wheel.

The DD2 injectors were a little much for the stock HX35 turbo as I could see 1450 degF if I didn't get my foot out of it on long grades, even at 33 PSIG boost. You had to drive the rig by the pyrometer when towing heavy. DD1s (no longer available as Diesel Dynamics went out of business) would have been just about right, and the RV275s should certainly be safe IF you ran a boost elbow.

Hope this helps.

 

[NIsaacs]

...I like to see pictures of our trucks doing work not blowing coal....

I agree, here is mine working.....Nick

 

[woodtrucker]

I towed 5th wheels up to 16,000 lbs GVWR with our 2002 4x2 3500 ETH/DEE dually (Cummins HO, NV5600 6 speed) with 4.10 axle ratio - it was ordered strictly as a 5th wheel towing rig. The stock HO is, as you have found, programmed to be pretty dead below 2000-2100 RPM. I ran the Edge EZ box (which included a boost elbow as it has a boost fooler capability), DD Stage 2 injectors, BHAF, SBC CON O/FE clutch and 4" Jardine exhaust system on my truck which brought the rear wheel horsepower and torque to 347/762 uncorrected (roughly 400/900 at the flywheel with 15% drivetrain losses) and cured the dead area below 2000 RPM. This combo turned the truck into a towing beast - it would pull Sandia eastbound on I-40 east of Albuquerque, NM at 65 MPH in 6th gear (about 2175 RPM) dragging our previous 16K GVWR 2004 Mobile Suites 36RE3 5th wheel.

The DD2 injectors were a little much for the stock HX35 turbo as I could see 1450 degF if I didn't get my foot out of it on long grades, even at 33 PSIG boost. You had to drive the rig by the pyrometer when towing heavy. DD1s (no longer available as Diesel Dynamics went out of business) would have been just about right, and the RV275s should certainly be safe IF you ran a boost elbow.

Hope this helps.

View attachment 94001

Very good info here! Thanks RustyJC!

 

[woodtrucker]

nice work there Nick!

 

[woodtrucker]

I finally found a home forum! I've just kicked all the other ones to the curb! I'm working on machining my boost elbow as we speak. Just picked up the fittings needed to do so, at the hardware store.

 

[woodtrucker]

I finally found a home forum! I've just kicked all the other ones to the curb! I'm working on machining my boost elbow as we speak. Just picked up the fittings needed to do so, at the hardware store.

Well, i adjusted the boost elbow all the way into almost full restriction. I felt some seat of the pants response but gauge only read 22-23 psi. I went ahead and backed off. It went from 20lbs boost to 22-23 withe elbow only partially restricted but as test drove cranking it in half turn each test drive, i kept getting better throttle responses but boost not changing on gauge. I'm scared the I'm building too much boost so I backed off the set screw back to where I first noticed the change. Crazy. No codes but I wonder of torque dog limits ecm to 23lbs. The gauge just looks like it dead stops and I'm still truckin and turbo is crankin. Don't understand! Help!

 

[NIsaacs]

With your fueling level you will not over boost. That might be all the fuel you have. When I turn my juice to stock that's all I get even with the RV Injectors. I would block the boost line completely off and try it, that will tell you if there is any more or not. That turbo is good to 34 psi if the fuel is there. I don't know anything about the tq dog, if it has boost fooling or not, the Edge does and tells the ecm to never mind

Nick

 

[woodtrucker]

With your fueling level you will not over boost. That might be all the fuel you have. When I turn my juice to stock that's all I get even with the RV Injectors. I would block the boost line completely off and try it, that will tell you if there is any more or not. That turbo is good to 34 psi if the fuel is there. I don't know anything about the tq dog, if it has boost fooling or not, the Edge does and tells the ecm to never mind

Nick

Great thanks. That sounds like whats going on. So I guess, I'll just set the boost elbow wide open to my previous 19-20 lbs normally without new elbow and tweak it 1/8 turn until I hop up to the 23-24 lbs boost. The bully dog boost fools I think since I've hit 23 and now cel...

 

[RustyJC]

Well, i adjusted the boost elbow all the way into almost full restriction. I felt some seat of the pants response but gauge only read 22-23 psi. I went ahead and backed off. It went from 20lbs boost to 22-23 withe elbow only partially restricted but as test drove cranking it in half turn each test drive, i kept getting better throttle responses but boost not changing on gauge. I'm scared the I'm building too much boost so I backed off the set screw back to where I first noticed the change. Crazy. No codes but I wonder of torque dog limits ecm to 23lbs. The gauge just looks like it dead stops and I'm still truckin and turbo is crankin. Don't understand! Help!

If you don't have a boost fooler, even with a boost elbow the ECM will defuel at 22-23 PSIG. It won't allow it to go any higher. The Edge EZ I ran had a boost fooler that intercepted the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) signal between the sensor and ECM and allowed boost to build to 33 PSIG in my case.

Rusty

 

[woodtrucker]

Guess those rv275s are gonna have to wait. I'll order the edge EZ and get my boost right before I pit injectors in. Thanks for the great feedback. It's very appreciated guys!

 

[NIsaacs]

I'll order the edge EZ and get my boost right before I pit injectors in.

I think the tq dog is similar to an Edge EZ so you might not see an improvement with the EZ, if the tq dog is working. I would disconnect the tq dog from the map sensor, plug in the original pigtail and try it, then you will know if it works.

Bully Dogs site sucks so I can't find out much info on it. Before I kicked it to the curb I would check it out, it might be just fine.

Nick

 

[woodtrucker]

I know it works. I've had it off before.
I just wondee if I can get the boost levels up to 28-30 as most people do with the EZ and elbow. Even if tuner is a little weaker thanthe bd, I think I'd feel more safe with a more common set up like the ez/275. I've called BD and they can't even tell me what the nonswitchable version is rated for. I'll just sell it for $150-$200 bucks and put that money on the EZ. Probably order EZ today and rv275s sometime next week after I get the ez on and see if I can get boost numbers right.