Well, sorry to say I am out of my stock of CI4+ and am forced to use the CJ4 stuff. In that the oil change interval for my 2004. 5 with the CI4+ is 7,500 miles heavy usage and 15,000 miles normal, should I be thinking of changing oil at a lower mileage due to the differences in the CJ4 oil?
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No More CI4+
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rbattelle
TDR MEMBER
If you're going to be forced into CJ-4 it wouldn't be a bad idea to reduce the change interval. Maybe every 5k?
Ryan
Blu-meanie
TDR MEMBER
I found the Delo on the shelves at NAPA too.
DaveHess
TDR MEMBER
How'd you guys get your NAPA store to order the Valvoline Premium Blue Classic??? I provided my store with the Valvoline part number for the 5-gallon buckets plus the UPC off the bucket and they stand there mouth breathing like I just spoke to them swahili. I have a Cummins Dealership, not a distributor about 90 miles away who orders it for me from Minneapolis. Then it costs me $24 to get it shipped the Cummins dealership to my home. That's three buckets (15 gallons) Costs me a little over $230 for 15 gallons but at least I can sleep at night! That's my . 02!
BDaugherty
TDR MEMBER
I've been using CAT oil since I've had my truck. A 1 gallon container of CL4plus is p/n 248-7518. It should be available at your local Caterpillar dealer... but be sure to ask for it at the heavy equipment parts dept. If you got to a CAT truck engine service shop, they will probably only stock the new emissions oil which carries a different part number.
RBridenbaugh
TDR MEMBER
Mike --
I second the idea of contacting a local oil distributor.
I had waited months for Wal-mart to restock the CI-4+ Shell rotella T synthetic that I use in the winter, but it didn't look promising. I contacted a local oil distributor. He had his blender make up a 16 gallon keg of CI-4+ synthetic using a synthetic base and a Lubrizol additive package to be very close to the Shell package. It cost me $14 a gallon. A dino base stock would have been even less.
Last year Wal-mart had Rotella T Synthetic for $17/gallon. They finally restocked it in my local Wal-mart when I stopped by today at $22/gallon (still CI-4+). Next to it was dino CI-4+ Delo at ~$12/gallon.
I re-fill my old one gallon bottles. So little difference in price between it and the dino that I run the synthetic full time.
-- Bob
I second the idea of contacting a local oil distributor.
I had waited months for Wal-mart to restock the CI-4+ Shell rotella T synthetic that I use in the winter, but it didn't look promising. I contacted a local oil distributor. He had his blender make up a 16 gallon keg of CI-4+ synthetic using a synthetic base and a Lubrizol additive package to be very close to the Shell package. It cost me $14 a gallon. A dino base stock would have been even less.
Last year Wal-mart had Rotella T Synthetic for $17/gallon. They finally restocked it in my local Wal-mart when I stopped by today at $22/gallon (still CI-4+). Next to it was dino CI-4+ Delo at ~$12/gallon.
I re-fill my old one gallon bottles. So little difference in price between it and the dino that I run the synthetic full time.
-- Bob
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
Just to let you all know, and I've said it before, but I'll say it agaiin. Amsoil is still making the CI-4+ oils in their HDD & Marine "FULL-Synthetic 15W-40, 15W-40 "Synthetic Blend", as well as their SAE 10W-30/30, and HDD 5W-30 grades of oils.
The only CJ-4 oil they make is the HDD 5W-40 grade.
The only CJ-4 oil they make is the HDD 5W-40 grade.
Is anyone in -CA- finding Delo or Valvoline (CI-4+) ??
If so where?
Batting zero - even in 5 gal pails.
"No" from NAPA, "No" from Distributors.
They say "not available".
Could this be a "CA thing"?
Thanks,
JC
On Edit - just went to the Valvoline site.
Maybe somebody is missing something in re: "Backwards Compatible" - meaning it meets the specs
of the previous oils. Unfortunately, CJ has lost lots of good additives thanks to the EPA.
Blackbear - the new "Extreme" Syn for the "new engines" (# VV 70518) is backwards compatible,
(that doesn't mean it "has CI in it") - it meets the spec - - it's CJ oil.
Blu-meanie & Bob V - is the Delo you found say LE? Check the donut for CJ. Chevron site no longer lists CI oil.
All backwards compatible CJ. (incl 5 gal pail).
Along with Dave Hess - contacted Napa with both their part number and Valvoline # for Classic Blue. (5 gal pail).
NAPA claims not in their system (other part stores = the same result).
WCounts - Had local guy I know contact his distributor. Dist. said Valvoline no longer makes it.
(Still on the site, however). Once again, CA thing or "old stock" still in the system?
Amsoilman - you're lookin' better all the time, LOL!
JC
If so where?
Batting zero - even in 5 gal pails.
"No" from NAPA, "No" from Distributors.
They say "not available".
Could this be a "CA thing"?
Thanks,
JC
On Edit - just went to the Valvoline site.
Maybe somebody is missing something in re: "Backwards Compatible" - meaning it meets the specs
of the previous oils. Unfortunately, CJ has lost lots of good additives thanks to the EPA.
Blackbear - the new "Extreme" Syn for the "new engines" (# VV 70518) is backwards compatible,
(that doesn't mean it "has CI in it") - it meets the spec - - it's CJ oil.
Blu-meanie & Bob V - is the Delo you found say LE? Check the donut for CJ. Chevron site no longer lists CI oil.
All backwards compatible CJ. (incl 5 gal pail).
Along with Dave Hess - contacted Napa with both their part number and Valvoline # for Classic Blue. (5 gal pail).
NAPA claims not in their system (other part stores = the same result).
WCounts - Had local guy I know contact his distributor. Dist. said Valvoline no longer makes it.
(Still on the site, however). Once again, CA thing or "old stock" still in the system?
Amsoilman - you're lookin' better all the time, LOL!
JC
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Must be a CA thing. Arround here you can just about get CI-4+ in anything you want. You just have to buy it in 5gal or 55gal drums.
I'm going to add that I believe CJ-4 oil is enough differant from CI-4 oil that they should not be interchangable. You shouldn't use CI-4 oil in a motor that uses a dpf for the posibility of the heavy phosphates and zinc additives stopping things up. You also shouldn't be putting CJ-4 oil in heavy equipment or highway diesels made earlier than 07 taking a chance on premature wear from inadequate additives.
CJ-4 oil isn't backwards compatable and should have only the CJ-4 lable on it and no others.
I'm going to add that I believe CJ-4 oil is enough differant from CI-4 oil that they should not be interchangable. You shouldn't use CI-4 oil in a motor that uses a dpf for the posibility of the heavy phosphates and zinc additives stopping things up. You also shouldn't be putting CJ-4 oil in heavy equipment or highway diesels made earlier than 07 taking a chance on premature wear from inadequate additives.
CJ-4 oil isn't backwards compatable and should have only the CJ-4 lable on it and no others.
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This info is for Rotella CJ-4, based on what I have experienced and UOAs have shown:
If the truck will be used for a grocery getter, you can probably maintain your current intervals... it holds up very well and produces very good wear numbers. I had several excellent UOAs to 10k with CJ-4 (and the oil was still fine for continued use).
If the truck is used for heavy towing, then I would definitely be changing out early, probably 5k OCIs. This newer oil seems to boil off and thicken under higher RPM/loads... I could actually see the oil "loss" on the dipstick, as well as the increase in viscosity through the UOA (my truck uses no oil in a normal 10k interval). This happened twice during my UOAs, so I did sort of confirm it through my analysis.
I am currently running CJ-4 Schaeffers Series 9000 5w40 with very good initial results... I'll post up a UOA when the time comes. But I can tell it is holding up better than the CJ-4 Rotella did under similar circumstances.
If the truck will be used for a grocery getter, you can probably maintain your current intervals... it holds up very well and produces very good wear numbers. I had several excellent UOAs to 10k with CJ-4 (and the oil was still fine for continued use).
If the truck is used for heavy towing, then I would definitely be changing out early, probably 5k OCIs. This newer oil seems to boil off and thicken under higher RPM/loads... I could actually see the oil "loss" on the dipstick, as well as the increase in viscosity through the UOA (my truck uses no oil in a normal 10k interval). This happened twice during my UOAs, so I did sort of confirm it through my analysis.
I am currently running CJ-4 Schaeffers Series 9000 5w40 with very good initial results... I'll post up a UOA when the time comes. But I can tell it is holding up better than the CJ-4 Rotella did under similar circumstances.
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
Here is some interesting info I came across regarding CJ-4 Oils.
In the June issue of Heavy Duty Trucking magazine, the central series of articles revolved around the theme, “Fuel Crisis Survival. ” The piece mentions some of the things fleets must do in order to survive, including lowering speeds reducing or eliminating idling and—of course—of premium importance is maintenance: clean air filters, proper tire pressure, and engine oil and oil filter changes.
The ability to monitor the in-service oil with oil analysis not only provides insight into the engine health but can also assist in monitoring the lubricant's useful remaining life and enable you to extend the drain intervals. Your oil analysis program can help you establish and safely extend oil drain intervals. Particularly with CJ-4 engine oils, a properly implemented oil analysis program can assist in extending drain intervals in many fleets to 2X the OEM-recommended intervals.
The introduction of CJ-4 formula oils and the 2007 engines initially caused some concern over the ability to extend drain intervals. The reformulation to meet the emissions requirements lowered the Base Number, meaning less alkaline reserve to neutralize acids in the engine crankcase. Engine manufacturers had to almost double the amount of recirculated air being fed into the combustion chambers through EGR, causing a higher concentration of nitrogen, which combined with water vapor and the heat of combustion went into the crankcase to form higher concentrations of nitric acids. Although sulfur content in diesel fuels was lowered to 15ppm, thus reducing the primary acid generator in the crankcase, the increase in NOx made many people wary of extended oil drains, at least initially.
The fact is the new CJ-4 products are formulated with a radically different chemistry that has benefits over its predecessors. One of the benefits is better soot handling capabilities because the products are designed to suspend soot particles in finer sizes and greater quantities. The new formula oils also have much better thermal stability and oxidation control; they handle higher temperatures better and longer. Oil companies confirm that the new paradigm in heavy-duty engine oil formulation to meet CJ-4 specifications has made it possible to boost the formulas to produce a robust product that can offer 2X OEM drain intervals.
In the June issue of Heavy Duty Trucking magazine, the central series of articles revolved around the theme, “Fuel Crisis Survival. ” The piece mentions some of the things fleets must do in order to survive, including lowering speeds reducing or eliminating idling and—of course—of premium importance is maintenance: clean air filters, proper tire pressure, and engine oil and oil filter changes.
The ability to monitor the in-service oil with oil analysis not only provides insight into the engine health but can also assist in monitoring the lubricant's useful remaining life and enable you to extend the drain intervals. Your oil analysis program can help you establish and safely extend oil drain intervals. Particularly with CJ-4 engine oils, a properly implemented oil analysis program can assist in extending drain intervals in many fleets to 2X the OEM-recommended intervals.
The introduction of CJ-4 formula oils and the 2007 engines initially caused some concern over the ability to extend drain intervals. The reformulation to meet the emissions requirements lowered the Base Number, meaning less alkaline reserve to neutralize acids in the engine crankcase. Engine manufacturers had to almost double the amount of recirculated air being fed into the combustion chambers through EGR, causing a higher concentration of nitrogen, which combined with water vapor and the heat of combustion went into the crankcase to form higher concentrations of nitric acids. Although sulfur content in diesel fuels was lowered to 15ppm, thus reducing the primary acid generator in the crankcase, the increase in NOx made many people wary of extended oil drains, at least initially.
The fact is the new CJ-4 products are formulated with a radically different chemistry that has benefits over its predecessors. One of the benefits is better soot handling capabilities because the products are designed to suspend soot particles in finer sizes and greater quantities. The new formula oils also have much better thermal stability and oxidation control; they handle higher temperatures better and longer. Oil companies confirm that the new paradigm in heavy-duty engine oil formulation to meet CJ-4 specifications has made it possible to boost the formulas to produce a robust product that can offer 2X OEM drain intervals.
RBridenbaugh
TDR MEMBER
In the SF Bay area you can still get Delo, Shell Rottella and Shell Rotella T synthetic as CI-4+, at Wal-mart as of two weeks ago.
The local oil jobber in So. San Francisco (First Automotive Dist. ) reps Delo and a variety of other oils, you might check with him. His blender made up a 16 gallon pail of Shell Rotella T 5W-40 synthetic CI-4+ "equivalent" with a Lubrizol additive package for me @ $14/gallon.
The local oil jobber in So. San Francisco (First Automotive Dist. ) reps Delo and a variety of other oils, you might check with him. His blender made up a 16 gallon pail of Shell Rotella T 5W-40 synthetic CI-4+ "equivalent" with a Lubrizol additive package for me @ $14/gallon.
WCounts - agree with you on ALL-counts . . . . with the exception of your
last sentence (CJ not being backwards compatible)
Just happen to have a quart of Delo 400 15w-40 LE ("formulated for API
service CJ-4")
"CJ-4 Compatabile with API services Classification/Compatible API services
CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CF. "
And a gallon of Valvoline Classic Blue:
"Exceeds API Services CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4, CF/SL"
Same thing on the "donut" - with CJ-4 on top with the other service/s and
CI-4 Plus alone on the bottom.
That's backwards compatible!! - and NOT "stand alone" CJ.
Check the previous issues (54-58) of TDR quarterly. (it goes on and on).
Too bad the initial testing was with a majority of CI oils and only a few CJ.
Amsoilman - you are correct. Some industry folks admit that the CJ oils
will catch up, but lots say it hasn't happened yet.
Lots of well informed discussion on "Bob Is The Oil Guy" forum/s.
(They like to call it "rearwards compatible").
I don't lose any sleep over using CJ -
(that's why I have the gal of Valvoline CJ, LOL!),
but since I have an '05, I have no desire to run the CJ if I can help it.
Kinda like using Windows Vista when it first came out.
JC
Last edited:
The Strangest Things Make You Happy.
About a month ago I was Shopping at Sam's and did my regular pass through the automotive aisle. I glanced at the Delo pallet and saw an old style solid blue box. I excitedly looked both ways down the aisle, like I was getting away with something, and fell to my knees to see if it was really true. Two boxes, 4 more oil changes, of CI-4+. before I was forced to make a change. I quickly loaded the boxes into my basket as I giggled inside, I was happy to pay the LE price of 40 something dollars for just a little more time. I finished my shopping and was checking out when each box scanned out at $24. 00. Oo. Oh yes, the oil gods smiled on me that day.
About a month ago I was Shopping at Sam's and did my regular pass through the automotive aisle. I glanced at the Delo pallet and saw an old style solid blue box. I excitedly looked both ways down the aisle, like I was getting away with something, and fell to my knees to see if it was really true. Two boxes, 4 more oil changes, of CI-4+. before I was forced to make a change. I quickly loaded the boxes into my basket as I giggled inside, I was happy to pay the LE price of 40 something dollars for just a little more time. I finished my shopping and was checking out when each box scanned out at $24. 00. Oo. Oh yes, the oil gods smiled on me that day.
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