Here I am

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) No Thermostat Still Overheating, Water Pump?

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) head light relay

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) transmission question

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm pretty sure that smoke blowing out around the hood and coolant squirting all over the windshield is not a good thing. It happened again. My dad literally had brain surgery just over a year ago so I can't be upset with him. He wasn't watching the gauge and when I glanced at it it was around 231 degrees and he wouldn't pull over. I told him to switch the fan on and he flipped the switch and figured that would do the trick.



After the boiling over I found that a wire for my thermostat switch was loose when the fan re-engaged after wiggling a wire. I had my dad start the engine with the fan on and the quick shock of going from super hot to cool must be what caused the lexan to explode. Pieces of it went into the engine bay and road, etc. Every section had stress fractures throughout. The plastic company we bought it from was confident the 1/4" lexan would resist any damage from impact and could tolerate any engine related heat. We proved it wrong.



We thought we'd cleared out all of the broken pieces of lexan and continued, thinking things would continue to be fine. When the shroud was still working the hottest we'd measured was 218 so we felt pretty confident in the new shroud's cooling ability.



To make the story short we had just pulled out of the pull off we'd slept in, driving slowly past a bison when a tractor trailer came barreling on our tail through the heavy fog. My dad floored it and we heard a loud noise. My dad continued to drive this way for almost 3 more miles, too afraid to pull over with the truck so close to our trailer. I found coolant leaking not from the cap, rather out the radiator where a piece of lexan had gashed it wide open.



I was stranded on the side of the road for almost an entire day in British Columbia before getting pulled by an old Ford to Coal River Lodge. It took a few days for parts to arrive and lots of money and work but we have it driving again. I ordered another radiator that had to be flown overnight to Whitehorse in the Yukon, then driven down to us on a Greyhound at about 10:pm. I'd gotten Yukon Radiator to work with the sheet metal shop there and had some 1/8" aluminum pre-rolled and sent along with in one large package.



Took pretty much all day to get the new radiator in and fabricate the new shroud. Tools were very limited. Got aluminum in one eye and anti-freeze in the other. Tons of fun. This new radiator is only a single core whereas my old one was a dual core. That has me worried. But the new one from Thailand has aluminum caps instead of plastic like my old one, which the radiator dealer thought might improve cooling efficiency. The fins also seem much tighter. Being slimmer made it easier to install.



I learned that the Dodge radiator is a few inches wider but is cross-flow instead of vertical flow. Anyone know how much of a difference that should make if any? I looked closely at an '06 that stayed here at the lodge. His was also a single core, very thin. Said his runs at 200 all the time and will see 220 pulling big hills.



Ambient temperature during our test drive was only 51 degrees and we were unloaded so we couldn't get much of a load on the truck. Got the coolant up to 154 while driving up and down mountains but with the fan manually locked on it had dropped to 134 by the time we got back to the lodge. It was running very cool so we think we're ready to start towing our huge load again in the morning.



My fan took some damage from the shrapnel. I don't think any other pieces will break off and I'm hoping the cooling ability isn't too affected. Doing my bottle test again it took 2,500 RPMs for the fan to pull it to the grill. I think it was pulling harder sooner than that before. I did make this shroud a bit larger as well, just to have a bit more clearance. I noticed on the '06 Dodge that the blades nearly touch the shroud, virtually no gap. Interesting. Obviously couldn't do that with bolts in the way here. Hopefully these pictures will show some detail. I still don't understand how a thermostat that is already fully open at 180 can cool any better than no thermostat since the thermostat has no "brain" to close it off again and regulate flow. Perhaps having just a single core will produce the same effect and reduce my coolant temps anyway.



I like the look of all of the shiny aluminum, I think it looks sharp. The tiny wire going into the upper radiator hose is the fan switch probe. First time I installed it it leaked. This time we used silicone to help it seal. No leaks anywhere on our test drive. Can you believe it cost $20 just to borrow a phone to order parts? This has been my most expensive birthday and one of the least enjoyable.
 
Part of your problem is the fan shroud is only functional on a portion of the radiator. There is a fair amount around the shroud that is getting no airflow.



Dodge quit the vertical flow radiators in 91 and offered and upgrade kit because they would not cool well enough under load. Pretty sure you will need a big cross flow to handle the amount of heat that can be generated under a load. Huge difference between running it unload and loaded, much more heat is dumoed to the system under load that cannot be simulated empty.



You should be able to run 230-240 and not have any problems, given everything else is working. If the system is pressurized and holding correctly it won't boil at those temps, but, you will need a coolant recovery system or it will slowly loose coolant.



You really need to look into the coolant bypass for the rear cylinders on that engine, it was a big problem with them and given you don't have the OE parts it could be a major contributor to the observed issues.
 
this problem has become so baffling my most reliable mechanic is finally advising i try switching my license plate because we've swapped just about everything else. My cummins has always run hot with frequent overheating. I ditched the stock engine fan and clutch for a custom fan and horton electromagnetic fan clutch. This fan setup moves a ton of air, tons of noise, blows dust clouds below the truck and will blow your hat off with the hood open. I also have a pusher fan in front of the intercooler working at the same time.



After overheating to the point of running out of coolant due to another sticking thermostat that boiled almost all of my coolant out and having to be towed i decided to take a drastic step. I pulled the thermostat and cut out all but the metal bridge in the middle. No longer anything opening or closing, just a constant flow with a slight restriction. This is a 180 degree cummins thermostat from napa. Looked just like the one from auto zone it replaced, that stuck shut as well. Before that i'd been through a few original style cummins thermostats with rubber sleeves that crumpled. The last of those stuck open in the winter and i couldn't get up to 50 degrees.



Removing the main restrictions from this thermostat has disappointingly done nothing to help. I'm grossing about 23,000 lbs on my way to alaska. But even when empty i still get well over 200 degrees even at interstate speeds. What is odd to me is that my coolant got as high as 228 degrees today while towing up a mountain but didn't boil out. Took several minutes after cresting and going downhill to get back to the low 190 degree range. It usually boils around 210.



The radiator is only a couple years old. Been through a few thermostats before and after replacing the radiator. Can't run air conditioning because that seems to make the engine run hotter. I'm running the purple fleet coolant from napa for big trucks with tap water. Running a higher ratio of water this time and that is the only thing i can think of that has kept my coolant from boiling over this time.



The head is my second replacement within just a couple months. When holding a hand over the coolant reservoir and revving the engine, there is no pressure from the coolant so i don't think my head could be cracked again or leaking through the head gasket, no injection compression or engine oil in the coolant.



The only thing i haven't replaced in a few years is the water pump. Does a water pump slowly go bad and allow overheating or does it just lock up and quit all at once? Do i need to look for a cummins or dodge dealer or will i be ok trying one from a parts store? I plan to try to find a shop in bozeman, mt in the morning to put in a new water pump, assuming i can find one in town.



I should add that the truck usually runs a little cooler at night, but still frequently exceeds 205 degrees even when ambient temperatures are in the 40s. Under hot sun in the 90s we can't even run the a/c and keep temps down into the 90s. But at times even with my thermostat gutted we can't keep coolant temps under 210 climbing up a mountain with both fans on but if i keep the fans on for a long time during the downhill side the fans will sometimes bring the coolant down into the 160 something degree range. Takes a long downhill to get that cool. Thoughts? I've got a lot more towing to do and sure would like to have this problem solved unless it is fine and normal for my engine to not be able to stay under 230 degrees.



put it back to stock and see if that takes care of it
 
Boiled over again today at 212 degrees. Once again I was not driving so my dad had downshifted to keep EGTs down, which he'd been having approach 1,400 degrees. With RPMs racing over 2,500 RPMs for several minutes at a time climbing hill after hill coolant rose easily. If the coolant should not spew until 230 or higher than I suspect my radiator cap and will look into replacing it.

Tonight I noticed a coolant leak while fueling. I have a coolant hose rubbing an engine pulley. I'm surprised we made it as far as we did. I drove to a Super 8 after finding the leak and saw that it had stopped leaking. Guess I got lucky with that, will find a shop to repair in the morning. I noticed my coolant level appeared higher tonight after boiling out so I suspect this leak may have let air into the system.

Can anyone tell me more about the coolant bypass for the rear cylinders?
 
Boiled over again today at 212 degrees. Once again I was not driving so my dad had downshifted to keep EGTs down, which he'd been having approach 1,400 degrees. With RPMs racing over 2,500 RPMs for several minutes at a time climbing hill after hill coolant rose easily. If the coolant should not spew until 230 or higher than I suspect my radiator cap and will look into replacing it.



Tonight I noticed a coolant leak while fueling. I have a coolant hose rubbing an engine pulley. I'm surprised we made it as far as we did. I drove to a Super 8 after finding the leak and saw that it had stopped leaking. Guess I got lucky with that, will find a shop to repair in the morning. I noticed my coolant level appeared higher tonight after boiling out so I suspect this leak may have let air into the system.



Can anyone tell me more about the coolant bypass for the rear cylinders?
 
Also of interesting note my fuel economy is averaging right at 8. 8 for every single refill. Even though we're no longer on the narrow mountain roads of the Alaska Highway, the hills so far to Edmonton, Alberta have still been sizable. I've tried to keep my speed up on the smoother road up to 80 mph so I don't have to work the engine as hard on the uphill side, which is a little hairy with such a load. I haven't found a scale but I figure we're weighing about 11 or 12 tons. Does anyone else ever tow heavy enough to get such low mileage?
 
That fuel milage is normal for that weight and speed. Thats a lot of weight for a bumper pull... . what are you pulling?



I assume you have an auto transmission? Do you have a temp gauge on it? I wonder if the heat is generated by it? Does the engine have a transmission cooler on it? I know, lotta questions:)



Nick
 
I have a friend that got rid of his 2006 , 2500 Dodge Cummins , because it overheated and no one at the dealerships could figure it out. they did all the swaps also . who knows glad it isn't mine.
 
Found the problem, at last! The leak I spotted has seemingly been the source of my overheating issue all these years. The Ford hose that goes down from the radiator fill reservoir to the bottom of the radiator must have had a tiny hole in it all this time. I had that hose replaced in Edmonton yesterday and ever since the hottest my coolant has gotten was 220 degrees today in Great Falls, Montana.

For most of the last week ambient temps were from 38-48 degrees F. Today was up to 75 degrees out and we only saw 220 because we drove virtually from the Canadian border to Great Falls in 3rd gear, running RPMs up around 2,400 most of the time to keep our speed over 60 mph.

Coolant temperature no longer fluxuates nearly as much as it used to. I had the radiator cap pressure tested and it is good. I was told by that shop that with an air leak there was no way to keep the water from boiling out, displacing the liquid when it got hot. We haven't leaked a single drop with the coolant filled to the cap.

As far as not having a thermostat I've had it confirmed after talking with a few more mechanics that having no thermostat cannot possibly cause overheating. A thermostat once fully opened remains so until the coolant temperature has decreased by the engine fan. The thermostat does not create a restriction that keeps coolant in the radiator longer once it has reached it's opening temperature. For the last couple of days my coolant has averaged around 190 degrees unless climbing or descending a hill.

As for the transmission, yes, it is a 4 speed automatic but it usually runs at only about 130 degrees. It is a custom built BTS 4R100, best built automatic I know of, totally dependable and can easily survives extreme flogging. The BTS uses a Precision Industries torque converter. The transmission rarely sees as high as 180 and only if it is changing gears frequently. I use a 6. 0L Ford transmission cooler that I think has 32 rows, mounted in front of the intercooler.
 
do yourself a favor and don't try that in a European car, without the bypass blocked when the t-stat opens the coolant doesn't flow properly through the radiator, i have reinstalled many thermostats to get a cooling system functioning again, sometimes after the head gasket has been blown by running it too hot for too long, i don't remember any internal bypass on my cummins so it can probably handle no t-stat



As far as not having a thermostat I've had it confirmed after talking with a few more mechanics that having no thermostat cannot possibly cause overheating. A thermostat once fully opened remains so until the coolant temperature has decreased by the engine fan. The thermostat does not create a restriction that keeps coolant in the radiator longer once it has reached it's opening temperature
 
get a stock powerstroke fan shroud and modify the opening for the fan to fit your dodge fan. Make sure whatever you add around the fan does not pass the ford shroud (between the shroud and the radiator) and block some of the flow. I have just started having heat problems in my truck this season and I need to figure it out but previous seasons I could pull a 6. 5% 30mile long grade towing my small fifth wheel in 115 degrees without over heating. The temperatures you are towing at it should never overheat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top