2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Noise reduction effort update

[Dave Zuber]

GLASMITHS,



you mentioned 1 gallon of sound killer, What is this stuff? I'm guessing it is a type of under coat?





LSFARM and Greg L,



You both mentioned applying the SoundStop Foam directly to the engine, on the oil pan and on the valve cover. Is this stuff heat resistant? The valve cover and oil pan get to about 250-300 deg, which is not really hot like the 1000 deg exhaust.



How did you guys make the covers and keep them on? Can you sew/stitch a formed box like the B-Stop covers? Does this stuff need to be in firm contact with the engine or just between your ear and the sound?



I want to add a nice sounding exhaust, but need to quiet the engine down first so the wife doesn't complain.



Thanks for the info...

 

[GLASMITHS]

Noise Killer

Dave:



LSfarm and GregL live in the same body - I thinks Greg can prolly confirm this. http://www.quietnoise.com/nkillers.htms. This is the place to get the noise killer. It is , from my reading, closer to the spray-in-bedliner than undercoating. I am going to use it so I can get into all the cracks and crannys; then put the 1/2" foam over it.



I bought mine from JC Whitney. It was a little cheaper, it was on sale a couple months ago. And I have used this before, but for heat purposes. Also used the 1". IMHO, 1" would be too thick on floor. Could use it on back wall though.



Also, for the interior of cab, you can use the waterbased contact cement from Homie Dopie. "

Weldwood, nonflammable Contact Cement". I use a lot of this in the winter, cause with both types, the temps need to be at 65* or above for 24 hours prior to and after use. Both the cement and what ever you are glueing together. Put two coats on the foam, as it will asorbe a lot.



Hope this helps... ... ...



George

 

[Lsfarm]

Yep, one and the same

Hi Dave, The L and S in LsFarm stand for Long'S Farm.



The GSI soundstop foam is surprisingly heat resistant. The valve cover blanket on my engine goes over the edge of the valve cover/cylinder head junction and actually touches the top of the exhaust manifold flanges and bolts. It has been like this for almost a year now, and the foam is not burnt, or really melted, it just looks dented where it rests against the hot maniflold. The exhaust manifold flanges are going to be closer to cylinder head temps than the EGT temps we read out at the turbo. I figured that I would have to trim the edge of the blanket back off the manifold, but didn't need to.



The oil pan is no problem for the foam, but the contact cement is not reliable for holding the foam or the lead sheet onto the pan by itself, I have several bungiecords hooked on the gasket flange of the block going under the pan from side to side. I lost a pan blanket that was only glued on one day on a high speed freeway run to the airport. The contact cement is not 100 mph proof. Glue and bungie cords have been tested well above 100 mph.



Tomscreek: my truck sounded like there was a 6" hole in the firewall when I started 'Operation Quiet Cummins', the engine sounded like it was in my lap. Now the engine sounds like it is out in front of the front bumper. Still there, but nowhere near as obnoxious. I can leave the truck running at most drive-thrus now, but not all. the oilpan blanket is the biggest help in this area. I also have a few pieces of GSI foam on the sides of the engine block where ever I could wedge a piece in. Two people can actually talk to each other beside my truck with the engine running.



Take a look at the photo of the top of my engine, and you can see a cage that encloses the valve cover blanket. It is made from a piece of hog fencing.



You are lucky if your truck is reasonably quiet on the freeway, mine was not tolerable, I wore earplugs most the time. .



Greg L the Noise Nazi

 

[krs]

LSfarm,



Question: Have you ever considered an attempt to back the dashboard away from the firewall enough to install some method of sound reducer between them?



I've looked at the DC manual, and while the dashboard removal procedure is designed for just that - a removal from the vehicle involving disconnecting all cabling and whatnot, it looked like it might be possible to leave everything connected while pulling the dash back for access. Some bolts and plastic attachment pieces would need to be removed.



It seems to me that if that could be done much of the noise from the engine could be attenuated in the cab without addressing each noise source individually.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Soundstop

The GSI Soundstop is the same thing sold by JC Whitney, and it is cheaper from JC. The reason I know, I have 4 boxes with "Great Southern Insulation Co. stamped on it, from JC Whitney. Also the same address. Mine was on sale, however, the regular price is still about 25% less.



Kshine: wouldn't it be easier to put it on the firewall in engine compartment, rather than pulling the dash? I plan to put it in the inside as high as possable, then paint the Noise Killer the rest of the way, and the engine side down to foot level.

 

[krs]

Kshine: wouldn't it be easier to put it on the firewall in engine compartment, rather than pulling the dash? I plan to put it in the inside as high as possable, then paint the Noise Killer the rest of the way, and the engine side down to foot level

.



Hi.

Maybe it would be, but I'd have concern about the heat and am unsure of the effectiveness of the various painted on products. I painted my oil pan with a bedliner product by duplicolor, a thick rubbery stuff when dry, and THINK it might have brought some reduction, but really am not sure that it did. Would any 'blanket type material be simply put in on top of the various components attached to the firewall in the engine compartment? If so, that would increase the difficulty of working in already difficult areas, I'd think.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Kshine: As Greg said, this stuff, the 1/2 foam, will take a lot of heat> I have used the 1" before for heat purposes. Also to be effective, you need to do as Greg stated; cut small peices to custom fit around wires and other components. No, don't cover anything up. You can order the tape to match, or get some from Homie Dopie a lot cheaper. Just make it a seamless installation; it will not only be good but look good.



I would not put the liquid Noise Killer under the hood. But will use it inside as a base coat and to get into the small areas; also inside the doors. The whole object is to add mass to the metal.

 

[Pit Bull]

I think I heard the perfect truck for you guys

Was at the local truck stop the other day and a guy was fueling his new 03 CTD 3500QC DRW 4x4. When I walked by it sounded like a CTD but very very muffled. After I paid and was walking back out to my truck he was pulling off. He must of had it straight piped because it sounded like my CTD but about 1/2 the noise level coming out of the tail pipe. I must say it was a very nice big rig sound but not as load as a 02 CTD. I have heard other 03's that still have the stock setup and I have not been impressed with the sound, but this guys was different. If I see him again I will ask him what he did and post it. I know you guys are having fun with the noise reduction project on your 2nd generation CTD's but if you want it looks like you could just buy an 03 and straight pipe it or some kind of muffler/resenator change. Good luck.

 

[GLASMITHS]

TRADE FOR AN 03??

Pit Bull: I know it is cold up there, and with all the snow and bad weather you can't get out - but stay off that shine

 

[cmckinney]

I'll keep my 02' till she's has 150K on her maybe 200K. But I wouldn't want to shell out the money for one of the 03' for just a noise issue.



There's no mistaking my truck for a gas engine. I like the sound of her clatter just would like to have a volume control so I can turn it up and down.



-CM

 

[TomGolden]

Hey Glasmiths,



Ya gonna post some part/product numbers from JC Whitney so we can order the GSI foam from them?

 

[Lsfarm]

$20,000 for 10 Db ??

Pit Bull: I have to laugh, you forgot to add in the cheap factor: I'm too cheap to spend another 20K just to loose a few decibles!



I've attached a photo of my oil pan with the lead sheet and soundstop foam applied, the lead turned the noise made by tapping on the pan with a screwdriver from a 'tink, tink', to a 'thunk, thunk'.



Then I covered the pan with a layer of 1/2" soundstop foam.



Glassmiths: I saw boxes addressed to JC Whitney when I visited GSI last year, and I asked if we [TDR members] were just better of going to JC for their products. That is when we negotiated our 15% TDR discount. I'm disappointed to hear that JC sells the stuff for less than we can buy it direct. I guess I need to call GSI and see if we can get a better price now that we have a lot of members interested in their products.



kshine: I did look under the dash to see what it would take to pull it back enough to insulate the passenger side of the firewall. But what I saw scared me too much: what a mess!! So I just did the engine side and the air intake trough. I don't think I will be able to eliminate the clatter that still comes in through the defroster vents, but it is reduced a lot.



Greg L the Noise Nazi

 

[GLASMITHS]

Part # JC

Tom: Here is the numbers - 6 sf, 1/2" 32X27" - 15ZH8486W



For the 12 sf, 32"X54" -15ZH8488B



I do know that it is the same cuse the address zip and all is the same. That is not surprising though. I have found that the origional manufactors often charge more than it cost other places.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: TRADE FOR AN 03??

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

Pit Bull: I know it is cold up there, and with all the snow and bad weather you can't get out - but stay off that shine

I'm back, had a break in the weather and I just had enough time before more snow rolled in to run to the liquior store and restock After another couple of drinks I did just realize that I forgot to consider the $$$ it would take to trade for an 03. But after another couple of drinks whose cares it's only money and it's your money too boot. :-laf Wait a minute, I have another idea. I just noticed that if you drink enough it affects your hearing. Try drinking a 1/5 of Scotch before you start your CTD and see if it seems quieter

 

[GLASMITHS]

A 1/5 of Scotch usually takes care of most of those problems



Except the one you are going to have the next morning :-laf

 

[krs]

Pit Bull,



I could trade in for an '03, I guess, except that I think the things are butt ugly and I'm not getting used to them as time goes by, and I could drink to forget the noise except that whiskey near killed me seven years ago and now I don't get any more of it.



Thing is that I've got two CTDs - a '97 auto and an '01. 5 stick. The '97 is way much quieter in the cab and I'm determined to figure out why. I know that some noise comes up through the shifter, or used to, and more comes through the aluminum bracket that now supports the steering column but those can't account for all the difference. So it's like a puzzle to find out how DC cheated me out of the great noise protection they used to put in our trucks.

 

[Pit Bull]

My 2002 is louder than my 2000, but I figured it was because of the hood insulation that they left off, it is a HO 6 speed and it has the carpet delete.

 

[Hohn]

Greg, ? for you..

Greg, what persuaded you to take the route you did instead of going with Dynamat or something like that?



I know that Dynamat and its ilk are pricey, and was wondering if that was the reason you looked elsewhere.



My brother and I did a competitive car audio interior years ago, and we had great results with Dynamat, but I would expect that progress has been made since 1991 in this field.



I am interested in a little NR for the CTD as well-- I love the sound, but value my hearing even more.



thanks



HOHN

 

[Lsfarm]

Dynamat:

He Hohn: I did use some dynamat type products, but they didn't take out any of the deeper cummins tones coming from the exhaust pipe. The dynamat took out some of the road noise and a very little of the clatter.

The dynamat works a lot better on the average car where road noise is the biggest problem.

The Lead sheeting, and GSI soundstop foam add mass to the resonating panels and this helps block the exhaust rumble much better.



Do a search on 'Noise Reduction' there is a five or six+ page thread from about ten months ago that has a lot of info in it.



In the areas that a dynamat type product would be helpfull I still have an asphalt sound deadener on the panels.



greg L the Noise Nazi

 

[GLASMITHS]

Adding Mass to metal

As per Gregs statement. This is the whole key to noise reduction. Since noise is vibration, the lead and or sound Stop will do much better than the dynamat type material. Also, the people at Noise Killer feel that their product, a spray or paint on will also do a good job, since it cuts down the vibration in the metal. Hope that makes sense.