Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV 4500 Conversion to NV 5600

[Kirwin]

I have found a place in Las Vegas (drivetrain.com) that advertises an NV5600 conversion package for my truck for $ 3230. I have considered this a couple of times before but after reading Scott Dalgleish's article in issue 33 and exchanging some emails with him I decided that it wasn't worth it. Now that I can get a kit to perform the operation for $3230, I am again considering the swap. They have a testimonial from J P Callan that put one in a 98 12 valve. After discussing this with Scott I understand that the transmission hump sheet metal is different in the 98 and later Ram. As I understand it I would have to relocate the holes for the shifter lever for both the transfer case and the transmission. This is not something that I really want to do. I found dimensions on the web page for the NV5600 but have been unable to find a similar dimensional layout for the NV4500. Hence my questions: Does anyone have a NV4500 drawing with dimensions? Has anyone done the conversion on a 94-97 Ram? What did you do when it came to the shift lever hole in the floor board? Does anyone know J P Callan? Is He part of the TDR? Sorry for the long post. Thanks Ken Irwin

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I've been thinking about this swap but haven't done much research yet. Both drivetrain.com and blumenthalmfg.com have 6 speeds. I probably will visit both places. The former is in town, and the latter has other products potentially of interest to us Rammers.



I talked with Jim Leonard about it, since he has been doing these conversions for several years and knows all the ins and outs. He advertises in the TDR (business card section), -- email address removed -- or 530-938-3427.



First you need the 98-up crossmember from a diesel or V10. This one is wider from front to rear than the 94-97 member and the one used 98-up in other Rams. You need a clutch with 1-3/8" input splines if using a late 6 speed. The 98-up transfer case shifter bolts to the floor pan and the 6 speed has no mount bosses for the early (94-7) shifter that bolts to the 5 speed or automatic. The 6 speed has no port for the speedometer which would be a problem for 1994-7 2 wheel drives. The 5 speed/auto trans mount is fine but you need the 6 speed mounting plate for it. The 98 up shifter stalk works--change the shift patter disk in the knob. The floor pan hump is fine. The 6 speed is 6" longer (measure yours to be sure that is exactly correct) so the rear driveshaft must be shortened and the front one (if 4x4) must be re-tubed to make it longer.

 

[Kirwin]

Update

After discussing my proposed conversion with some other people including Joe Donnelly. It is looking like I am going to try it. Now all I need is a NV 5600 and some more time to do it all. I haven't quite figured out the transfer case shift lever yet but it can't be that hard can it?

 

[Kirwin]

ITS ON ITS WAY

Well when the wife's away the boys will play. Ordered an 03 NV 5600 (part # 52108502AC) from Dodge. Got a good price from my friendly Dodge dealer parts girl.

Talked with Kelly at NVG and she says that the 03 NV 5600 has a different shift tower but other than that it is exactly the same as the 02 NV 5600. The shift tower is about $150 but the 02 NV 5600 is $900 more than the 03 model. The 02 part # is 52108502AB, and by the parts book the 99-02 all use the same shift tower, the 03 uses a different one. I asked about the hard shifting and gear clash and Kelly says that they have made small improvements since its introduction and they are convinced that those issues have been worked out of the latest design NV 5600. We'll see.

Now for the hard part which shift lever do I need? The parts book shows that the NV 4500 shift lever was changed in 98 and that all 98 to 02 manual trannies use the same shift lever. They also put a console down on the hump that contains the new style shift boot.

All this is great BUT the 98 and later transfer case shift lever uses a floor pan mounted bracket. On my 97 the transfer case shift lever bracket is mounted to the side of the NV 4500. So not only will the old bracket not bolt up but the floor pan mounting appears to have been moved to the left about an inch. SO I am now wondering if I can use the 98 and later set up since the hole in the floor pan appears to be sightly left to support the new style transfer case shift lever bracket. Problem but not insurmountable. The transmission should be here Wednesday so then I can look at it and try to figure this out! I'll keep you posted! Still looking for any one else that has out a NV 5600 in a 94-97 Ram. Ken Irwin

 

[CumminsPower98]

NV5600 conversion

Kirwin, this is a very easy conversion even in a '97. I got 3 low mileage NV5600's to do some upgrades and one of them just went in a '97 whose 5 speed died, the other two will go in '98 12 valves.



Blementhal Manufacturing in Oklahoma City, OK (888-236-4800) sells kits with all the needed parts for a great price (see page 72 in issue 38). The kits include: shift stick, shift knob, knob insert, transmission mounting adapter plate, transfer case shifter mounting hardware, longer transfer case shift rod, and a back up light switch extension wire.



The floor needs no modifications at all, the 6 speed fits perfect even in a '97. You will need to buy the 11" wide cross member from Dodge, part number 5003051AA. The drive lines will have to be modified for length as I'm sure you know. The NV5600 is exactly 6" longer then the NV4500. South Bend Clutch (800-988-4345) sells conversion clutch kits so you can use your original flywheel with the 1 3/8" input shaft, or you can buy the newer 13" clutch and flywheel in which case you must install a starter spacer, Cummins number 3946118 and longer starter bolts, Cummins number 3946085. Thanks to John P. Callan for some of those part numbers. Hope this helps



I can't wait until I have the money for a clutch so I can install mine. Oo. Oo.



Mark

 

[TradedV-10foraCummins]

Kirwin,



Here is a post on a 6spd. conversion that might interest you:

http://www.dodge-diesel.org/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=5616

 

[Kirwin]

Update 12/10

New transmission cross member came in today. Spent and hour and a half trying to find the transmission mount in the Dodge parts book. Parts book is not correct and lists the transmission mounts as the left and right engine mounts. Finally figured it out I think. Part # I ordered is 52058219. This changes up in the system to 52020251AA. I think that its the right one. We'll see when it comes. I wanted to replace it as it has the rubber insert in it and rubber degrades with time and torque! transmission is coming from Sherwood CA. Found out today that I could have saved $500 if I had gotten the transmission from Blumenthal Heavy Duty. See their add on page 72 of issue 38 in the TDR. Talk to Keith and tell him you are a member of the TDR for the special TDR price. They also had a specially modified bracket to allow me to use the 97 model year transfer case shifter. That problem is now no longer a problem. Got duty tomorrow so Can't pick up transmission even if it comes in. Next issue; I am trying to determine if I can do this on my driveway at home with the truck on the ground or if the transmission is too tall and the truck will need to be up on jack stands or blocks. Thanks for all the PMs and help. The TDR rocks!!! Till Thursday Ken Irwin

 

[Kirwin]

Update 12/11

All of the Dodge parts are here except the new shift tower and the rubber mount . Can't wait to see the new transmission! Pick them up tomorrow. Ken Irwin

 

[Kirwin]

Its all coming together update 12/13

transmission came in Wednesday. Everything else from Dodge was here Thursday. Still waiting for adapter kit form Blumenthal Heavy Duty. UPS hasn't delivered today yet so hopefully it will be here today. Also ordered a manual transmission filter kit from Geno's. The part number for the rubber rear transmission mount used in the 98 and later Rams is indeed 52058219 which changes to 52020251AA in the Dodge parts system. It is not listed in the 98,99,00,02 parts book. There are various things listed as insulator, engine mount, that the picture shows the rubber part I wanted but none of the part numbers that go with the pictures are the correct part number. The 01 BE parts book lists the part number but indicates that this part only fits gas engines. Most years they just list the front engine mounts here again for the diesel application. It is not properly listed anywhere that we could find. We were tipped off to the problem in the STARR computer when we looked there. The diesel application only has 2 attachments to the frame on the truck! IE there is no rear mount for a diesel according to the STARR or parts computer!

Another problem; there is a piece of 1/2" rod that is attached to the front exhaust pipe that is inserted through a rubber grommet that is attached to the rubber transmission mount. If you move the transmission mount 6 inches aft the front exhaust pipe mount is no longer going to hold the front pipe. This requires a different Dodge bracket that is now ordered. This bracket appears to use two bolts on the front of the transmission for attachment.

UPS is here! Blumenthal's adapter kit has arrived. It includes a modified (longer) Dodge transfer case shift linkage rod, Dodge NV 5600 transmission shift lever (52107612) , Dodge shift lever handle (52104174) and 6 speed insert (52108192), a 6 speed adapter plate that is not an OEM part (piece of 1/4" steel plate with 6 holes)(OEM part 52019603AB), a 3/16" steel plate adapter bracket to mount the transfer case shift lever on for the 94-97 transfer case shift levers that mount to the NV 4500, (pretty simple to make, I could have made it) and a backup light switch wire extension.

The transfer case shift lever bracket requires that one of the bosses (visible in the Blumenthals add on page 72 of issue 38 but on the opposite side of the transmission than that shown) be drilled and tapped. I haven't figured out what the OEM bolt size is yet but I will let you know.

One more thing I found interesting, the NV 5600 has a fill plug with a female 17mm hex. Now how many of us have that large a allen wrench in our tool boxes? They did include the $56 backup light switch in my new transmission though. Wasn't that nice of them! I'll keep you updated but it looks like this will be a piece of cake now that I got it all figured out! I think!!Ken Irwin

 

[Missouri Mule]

Kirwin, issue 38 page 15. (nv4500/nv5600)

I was reading fast so I mite of missed the part about shortening the driveshaft? (your post)



Jack the truck up(use heavy duty stands) and make sure you have a big enough floor jack to handle that beast(the trans that is). You don't want to use a 6" to 12" floor jack with 2" plate).



Most common problem when installing trans = make sure it's in neutral or it won't go in the last inch.

 

[Kirwin]

Update 12/15

Yes Missouri Mule I will have to modify the drive shafts but that is way off in the distant future yet! Not really a big deal either. I thing the bracket that Blumenthals sent me is too short. At least as best as I can measure with the transmission still in the truck. I made another bracket that is roughly 2 inches longer. I will drill the holes through it for my transfer case shift lever mount when I have both trannys on the floor and can get exact positioning off the NV 4500. Drilled and tapped a 27/64 hole with a 12mm 1. 75 tap in the boss on the transmission. Piece of cake! At least as much as it can be when you are drilling a hole in the side of a $3000 transmission! Dodge still owes me the 98 and later style exhaust bracket to hold the front pipe. Once I have that I will be ready to go. Will start removing interference on Monday after work. Thanks for all the help. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Ken Irwin

 

[Kirwin]

Update 12/20

Well the old transmission is out and the new clutch friction disk is in. Think I might replace the famous rubber fuel return line while I have good access to it. Commencing reassembly today. Drive shafts were shortened/lengthened 5 3/4 inches by local drive shaft shop. Should be ready for pickup today. Did have to jack up the front of the engine in order to prevent the engine from tipping forward while trying to separate the transmission from the block. Got the rear axle of the truck almost 30 inches in the air to clear the NV 4500 shift stick. Slid it out in front of the rear tire, just barely. Hopefully get to drive it as a 6 speed this weekend. I'll keep you posted. Ken Irwin

 

[Pit Bull]

Ken very interesting thread. Keep it coming

 

[DieselB59]

I put a 5600 in an automatic equipped truck recently and the install went very well. Between Don at Blumenthal's and Dave Mitchell, all the parts were available very quickly. There was only one funny thing about the job. Something with the existing transfer case, which I modified to accept the 5600 output shaft. The T Case shifter rod that I received was not nearly long enough to make the distance between the new style lever and the case. I lengthened it and was pleasantly surprised to find the driveshafts were fine just as they were.

 

[Kirwin]

Project completed (well almost)

Well its in! I now have the only 97 Dodge CTD with a 6 speed! (that I have actually seen). So far I like it. I don't need the close ratios for the truck empty, but I think that trailer towing will be great with this transmission. I haven't mastered getting it into reverse yet. The gates are much closer and reverse seems to disappear with the truck stopped. Obviously the transmission is still very stiff yet! After all it is brand new! The vehicle speed sensor wiring was just long enough to reach the sensor in the transfer case extension housing. Shortened the rear drive shaft and lengthened the front drive shaft 5 3/4 inches. Also replaced the 3 u-joints in the rear shaft while I had it out.

The Blumnethals conversion kit bracket that I used to mount the 94-97 style transfer case shift lever mount to, moves the transfer case shift lever too close to the dash I think. I am considering modifying it to move the transfer case shift lever toward the rear of the truck about 3/4 inches. Where it currently is it doesn't make contact with the dash, but you can't get your fingers between it and the dash when its in 2 HI.

The other thing I haven't worked out yet is the later style transmission shift lever is much smaller in diameter that the NV 4500 shift stick. This causes the shift boot to have a large gap around the transmission shift lever. I am looking at ways to correct this. Has anyone else found something that worked? I am considering making an aluminum split collar that will clamp on the the shift lever and have a OD that will fit the shift boot.

I am working on a list of Dodge and other parts that this conversion required so any one interested can PM me and I will share my hard won knowledge or lack thereof! I'll keep you posted Ken Irwin

 

[CumminsPower98]

That's great to hear that you got it all together and working. My cousin is really liking the 6-speed in his '97 2500 for towing. He also has the problem with the smaller shift stick and the larger boot. We have not worked on fixing that yet.

 

[JJW_ND]

Rubber tape???

When I put a 2000 5sp in my 96 I got the slim shifter also. I used some rubber tape (not sticky at all, but sticks to itself and is much thicker then electrical tape). Did a "bell curve" shape on the lever that has worked so far. The only other nice fix is to aquire a 98 and newer floor shift bracket with boots (the cup holders and all). I am sure it would bolt right in place after you modified a few things on the lower dash infront of the shifter.



jjw

ND

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Get a piece of Armstrong pipe insulation for 1/2 inch copper pipe. Wrap it around the shifter stalk and cover with plastic electrical tape. This will fill the larger hole in the shifter boot.

 

[Kirwin]

Update 12/28

Well I have nearly 300 miles on it now. The trick to find reverse is to not allow the transmission to stop. Either by getting into reverse while the truck is still moving or if I have stopped and it won't go in, release the shift lever, let the clutch out to spin the transmission, and then try again. The transmission is still quite stiff but it is getting better. You definitely can't speed shift through 3rd and 4th. The synchronizers are very stiff and will frequently not allow the gears to align and drop in. Especially cold. This can be embarrassing as everyone else is accelerating from the red light and I moving after starting out in second, but can't get it into 3rd! Sometimes the same thing happens in 4th. 5th and 6th are easy though. They seem to always drop right in. I'll keep you posted. Ken Irwin

 

[Pit Bull]

How cold is it there? Mine has 3K miles on it and at 20 degrees the first shift in the morning into 3rd has to be done slow, but no problem with any other gear. After the first shift it is fine. Hope yours gets better. I have never had a problem getting into first or reverse from a stop. Seems like all of these 6 speeds have a different personality.