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OIL Additive Importance

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'06 Front Bearing/Hub Removal!?!?!

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i do not think so on the faster cloged up glad to know about the bypass i will install a differental gauge across the amsoil and give you a feed back. the ones on my home built ones do not have have the by pass in them my filter mounts are built by me on my mill and lathe, i make my own orifice and install it on the truck filter housing . i am using mostly luberfiner lf9750 filters and do not think they will fill up before 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles after reading what you said i think i will put a 15 psi gauge on the input to the filter and log it every oil change over the next two or three years. wayne will you find out what that by pass pressure is.





What are the micron ratings on the LF filters?



Thats a lot of miles on a filter. The bypass on the Amsoil isn't in the filter head, its in the filter (from what I am told). But with all the soot we have I bet they don't last the 60K they are rated for.
 
By 10K miles I had 2. 6% soot WITH a bypass... and they were not hard miles...









Holy crap! I've NEVER seen more than 0. 4% (with a bypass), even running the oil out to 30k!! You have soot numbers like another member that tows heavy and runs extended change intervals... he has no bypass. Condemnation is what, soot=4%?



As Gary pointed out, some additives do have beneficial compounds in them, but pretty much any good oil won't need extra additives. I too have used STP with good results in gassers. I have never used any engine oil additive in my Cummins (except once, with Lucas... before I knew better). I actually have a bottle of LubeExtender by Power Service that I bought and never ran... its much like STP I assume.



My used oil reports typically indicate the additives in the oil I dump out (ie API CI or CJ) after 10k and 20k are better than those in new oil used in gasser (ie API SM) applications. So why would additives be needed if the oil indicates otherwise?
 
What are the micron ratings on the LF filters?

Thats a lot of miles on a filter. The bypass on the Amsoil isn't in the filter head, its in the filter (from what I am told). But with all the soot we have I bet they don't last the 60K they are rated for.


That LuberFiner is a very BIG filter... significantly bigger than the EaBP110. IIRC, it is almost 1. 5" bigger in diameter and several inches longer than even the EaBP110. They are a very interesting filter... they are 2u, similar to the Amsoil EaBP.

I researched the LuberFiner when looking, but they required buying by the case which meant almost $500 for six filters to experiment. I was told by LuberFiner (champion labs?) these do not have any bypass, and they would eventually plug off.

I was also told (by Amsoil) that the EaBP series filters do NOT have any bypass, and they would eventually plug off. I was told since I was running my own setup and oil that I could essentially watch the return and replace the EaBP when the return was indicating the filter was plugging. So unless they changed them, we were told differently. I had 30k on an EaBP100 and my soot was only 0. 4% according to Blackstone.
 
I knoe my soot numbers are very high, and I am not sure why. . I do tow, but never that heavy. . So the only two things it could really be, aside from a faulty bypass, is the extra smoke from the Jr produces more soot in the oil, and the exhaust brake (which I use very heavily).



Its interesting you were told that by amsoil, as I was told the opposite. . I love when 2 different employes tell you 2 different stories.



We shall see what this next UOA looks like, I am using a different oil and the new Jr software is much less smokey.
 
Since my '02 was new, I've used the Edge Comp, and made a practice of running it down on 1x1 in normal use - including RV towing out on level ground - I only use higher Comp settings when towing in the hills, or on the dyno! :-laf



Especially obvious since adding the larger injectors, the Comp setting of 1x1 actually DE-fuels, as evident by the nearly total lack of visible smoke from the exhaust - far less than even with the Comp switched completely off. MPG is also improved - 22+ MPG running empty, and 17+ MPG in all around RV towing!



The second greatest benefit I have more recently added, is reducing the restriction to bypass oil flow from the 1/8 inch I have used for MANY years, down to 1/16 inch - that smaller orifice causes much slower oil flow thru the Frantz TP cartridge, and has displayed a FAR greater cleaning effect on my engine lube! Even in nearly 100% around town, short-haul driving, at 1000 miles on my last oil change, the oil is still clean enough on the stick to easily read the level markings.
 
I can tell you without ANY DOUBT, the Amsoil by-pass elements (EAPB) DO NOT HAVE A by-pass valve built inside the element! These (EAPB) filter elements are By-Pass filters and as such have no need for a BY-PASS valve inside.



Could someone have missunderstood, and was told an "ANTI-DRAINBACK" valve inside the Element, as these type of "VALVES" are indeed located inside the filter By-Pass elements.



Wayne

amsoilman
 
I can tell you without ANY DOUBT, the Amsoil by-pass elements (EAPB) DO NOT HAVE A by-pass valve built inside the element! These (EAPB) filter elements are By-Pass filters and as such have no need for a BY-PASS valve inside.



Could someone have missunderstood, and was told an "ANTI-DRAINBACK" valve inside the Element, as these type of "VALVES" are indeed located inside the filter By-Pass elements.



Wayne

amsoilman





I keep reading that, and I keep calling amsoil as asking. And I ask the question so there is no confusion. . We talk about it, its very clear. Both tech's I have talked to say that the EaBP will still flow oil if its plugged, that they have an internal bypass. .



Thats my experiance with the amsoil tech line... What else can I say.
 
I have a "cut-a-way" of a EaBp-110 in my shop, and tomorrow I will bring my camera and take a picture of it.

I am not doubting your word, about someone telling you they do, but whoever told you that was wrong!



Wayne
 
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I have a "cut-a-way" of a EaBp-110 in my shop, and tomorrow I will bring my camera and take a picture of it.

I am not doubting your word, about someone telling you they do, but however told you that was wrong!



Wayne



It makes sense for them not to have one, as its not needed... but yeah like you said I was given some wrong information.
 
... is reducing the restriction to bypass oil flow from the 1/8 inch I have used for MANY years, down to 1/16 inch...







I did the same thing with my GCF... used a #56 or #57 wire drill... similar size to that of the Amsoil (old orifice size used for the BE-series filters)...



I believe the GCF was 5/64ths???
 
yes the lf9750 is a 2u filter with exact specks as the amsoil 100 . they come stock on some of our equipment and have a source to buy in any quantity i want. you should have a utility trailer dealer that carries them nation wide. i also called amsoil today and they told me the same thing that there is no relief in the 100 and that it will plug up like the others. i am playing with an old luberfiner lf750 i am going to see if i can upload a pix of lf16035, lf9750 and lf750 cartridge
 
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It makes sense for them not to have one, as its not needed... but yeah like you said I was given some wrong information.

Here are some pictures of the EaBP-110 cut-a-way.





View attachment 72510



Here is a side view



View attachment 72511



Here is a view of the base, and the "Anti-Drain Back Valves", and as stated, there is no By-Pass valve inside.



View attachment 72512



Here is the statement on the filtering ability as per (ISO) International Standards Organization 4548-12.
 
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for many years stp was only a viscosity index enlarger or thickener , the ftc and others took them to court. i would not use that stuff even if it did have zddp because i do not want any higher vi. use the zddp+ product instead. i am going to see if i can find the stp web site that shows content if any of you find it let me know
 
Unless you intend to run real long (like 30k) change intervals on Rotella, there is no need for extra additives.



It will do just fine running normal change intervals...
 
ok i found what we are looking for, i found it under a thread for break in of flat tappet cams and stp is now adding zddp to its thickener, i guess the court case did some good but you do not want that stuff in your engine. the comparison of products can be found at ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More. crane cams break in lube and zddpplus+ are the highest and 10x higher than stp down further in the thread it stated the crane is in a 50w base. stp will be about 200w
 
ok i found what we are looking for, i found it under a thread for break in of flat tappet cams and stp is now adding zddp to its thickener, i guess the court case did some good but you do not want that stuff in your engine. the comparison of products can be found at ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More. crane cams break in lube and zddpplus+ are the highest and 10x higher than stp down further in the thread it stated the crane is in a 50w base. stp will be about 200w



The use of STP in engine lube oil, for many, falls into the same class as using Toilet Paper (TP) for bypass oil filtration ("TP belongs in the BATHROOM! HAR HAR!"), and other similar practices or devices used to enhance engine performance or longevity. In these cases, no amount of supporting proof, testing or logic will change the mind of the doubter - so the best approach is simply stating facts as best and accurately as possible, and let the readers decide for themselves.



As far as STP is concerned, I've used the stuff for various uses and in various applications since the 50's - and the use of Zinc as a primary beneficial ingredient is hardly a "recent" addition - but rather, a main ingredient for many, if not ALL those years.



Personally, *I* find it sorta humorous that a big oil chemist can dip out a specific amount of Zinc material, add it to that company's engine lube, and SHAZAM, it's a sacred and magical formula that is THE PERFECT blend for use in our engines - and one that end users DARE NOT trifle with, lest they inevitably screw up the "magic" of the original, and their engines instantly begin self-destruction!



AND yet, all at once, under EPA dictate, these SAME oil company Wizards will REMOVE the Zinc that was earlier included as one of the major wear reducing compounds - and that oil is STILL deemed as the wonderful and perfect result of engineering genius - and IF some customer succumbs to the temptation to buy and add BACK the same Zinc compounds formerly used in that oil - he will be attacked and ridiculed as a victim and user of "Snake Oil" advertising and usage! :rolleyes::-laf



YUP - STP in their original formulation, use a high-viscosity carrier for the Zinc friction reducing portion of the formula as used in older and more worn engines - and in later years, added a lower viscosity version for newer engines - but the Zinc portion of the additive, just as offered in many major oil company engine lubes, is still in there, and still offers the same potential reduced friction and protection!



As I stated earlier in this thread, I've used STP since the 50's, always figured it provided helpful benefits, based upon other uses where it clearly outperformed other conventional lubricants - especially in critical and wear-prone areas in newspaper presses I was responsible for thru the years. Eventually, after becoming one of the diesel engine faithful, and using engine oil analysis, I could actually SEE evidence of the beneficial effects of both the STP and that nasty 'ol Frantz TP bypass filtration:



#ad




The above sample was 5000 mile on the oil, 113,000 miles on the engine, STP and a Frantz TP bypass filter - and obviously as displayed by the wear and contaminant numbers, SOMETHING I was using was working, because to this point in time, I have never had any better reports, or SEEN better ones posted by other users of any oil brands or filtration methods - and while Blackstone Labs always commented on the slighly elevated viscosity readings, they ALSO commented that that elevation obviously was having NO adverse effects upon engine wear!



Don't believe it? Don't like it?



FINE - then don't use it! :-laf



BUT, until you can provide a BETTER result, using the stuff YOU prefer and recommend - I'd be sorta cautious about knocking or ridiculing what competing or substituted products can be shown to provide... ;)
 
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... they ALSO commented that that elevation obviously was having NO adverse effects upon engine wear!





This is one thing I was badly abused for... UOAs don't *really* show engine wear, they show oil condition.



It all boils down to what gives you that warm fuzzy feeling...



One question to ask... how much AW additives does an oil really need? I always thought of those additives as an "extender"... something to make a normal oil last longer than the normally intended oil change...
 
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