Oil Analyist Not Good

[PRout]

Cant help but to think that 5w30 oil seems a bit light. Especially in Cali.



I wouldn't let Cummins know you run it. They specifically told me to avoid 5w30, & only use 15w40 period.



Also, I too did an analysis out of curiosity. But really, what are we going to do if we see these high wear numbers? Rebuild the bottom end because of high copper, or iron? I think not.



I say run what u brung till it needs a rebuild & have fun w/ the analysis, but dont let it ruin your day. Your motor will probably outlast the truck, just keep clean oil in it & dont shockload the motor.

 

[HVAC]

Cliff Claven

We need to install the Amsoil "Bypass" filter on your lil tea kettle Oil analysis results will be no sweat with the second filter. Then you can extend oil change intervals.

 

[amsoilman]

Cliffman,

The oil cooler on the Cummins engine is copper! I also had a good customer that was doing oil analysis. His copper content went up high as well, and he insisted the Dealer change the cooler. The next analysis went way down. Now I can't say the changing of the cooler did it, but it did drop! Dealer did not want to change the cooler, but this guy insisted!

The rest of the numbers you posted are not "abnormal" at all.



Wayne

 

[gmorrison]

From a lube enginer's standpoint, this engine has a mechanical failure occuring and it is not simply an oil cooler copper leach. However, we have come to the limits of spectrographic oil analysis. Further insight could be gained by running additional tests such as particle count and Ferrography. Then the guessing would be eliminated as to if it is indeed a component failure or oil cooler leaching; even a probable component indication. A particle count analysis along with spectro costs around $35, full ferrography $75. . Much less than tearing down an engine which may produce ghosts or waiting until the component fails causing catastrophic damage.

If you would want to do the above analysis and it is not available, please e-mail me or call 614-492-2000 and we can get everything for you.

George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[gmorrison]

As with a previous poliltical axiom "It's the economy, stupid", a lube engineer's is "it's the viscosity!". There is simply no substitute for oil film, especially in areas such as camshafts and other high stress areas of the engine. That is where a full synthetic such as Delvac 1 really comes into its own as the synthetic base stock retains its thickness/film strength far better than a mineral based 40 weight. A 30W, even full synthetic, highly additized, just does not provide the comparative film thickness of a 40W. It comes down to keeping metal away from metal and the thicker the film, the stronger the film strength, the less possibility for metal touching metal and creating adhesion wear/failure.

George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I dumped my Amsoil 5W30 a couple nights ago with 19,500+ miles on the oil. It was a little disconcerting to see how thin and watery it seemed and how fast it gushed out of the engine. The next day after it had cooled off good I dabbed some on my fingers and it still was pretty thin. I did a little unscientific research and rubbed some of the old stuff between my fingers and then tried a few drops of the new 5W40 Delvac 1 I refilled my engine with. The Delvac stuff felt slicker between my fingers (how about that for an oil analysis test? ). I don't want to diss Amsoil, I had great analysis numbers with the 15W40 and believe they make a great product, but maybe we should take a cautious approach with the 5W30? Even if my numbers come back fine I don't feel I can use it any longer and have peace of mind. From here on out I'll stick with Delvac 1 or Amsoil 15W40.



I sent off a sample to Oil Analyzers and will post my results in a few days when they come back.

 

[Cliffman]

So which is it???

Okay, now I really confused (not a hard thing to accomplish). Which oil viscosity should I be running?? I always thought 5-30 was the oil to use here in good ol San Jose

 

[Don M]

Going back to what I was trying to say in an earlier post without stepping on anyones toes:



"Another thing that can be considered is the oil weight is lower than what is called for in that engine for warm climates. Although most guys say the 5/30 is showing lower wear rates than the 15/40 is. "



I really like the 15/40 or 5/40 oils better for our trucks. Since you have that 5er it is a good idea to use 15/40, IMO.

Some guys do show lower wear rates with the 5/30 but I wonder if they are mostly cold climate drivers?



Towing with your truck adds more heat and stress. Like gmorrison wrote, you need that film thickness of the 40 under high stress and heat. Cummins figures this out during developement and the hot-shot guys have known it for a long time. A guy here on the site by the name pwknapp is over 400K in miles now with the original engine and the truck is a heavy hauler hot-shot rig. He has grossed higher than recommended weight with truck more than once. He uses 15/40 oil changed at 5k intervals. His truck is bombed and has about 350HP now at the rear wheels.



Nascar guys run the heavy weight oils for the real race and use the lower weight oils to qualify with. They know the lower weight oils would not be a good idea for the long race for the reasons that gmorrison gave.



The oil cooler is the only thing that is copper in your engine by itself. The rod and main bearings have copper in them too. The chromiun is usually the cam and tappets. Aluminum is piston material. I do not know about the lead, but have heard others say that lead is a component in Cat engine bearings. maybe the Cummins is using it too.



Don~

 

[John]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

This change I'm goin' with Delvac 1 (I copy everything JJW_ND does )

Vaughn, you were the very first person I remember using the Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 synthetic on the TDR BB.



Me? I'll stick with the Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel & Marine.

 

[Sled Puller]

Cliffman,

If you have to ask, use the 15w-40!LOL!



I only sell the 5W-30 to guys who want absolute maximum protection no matter what the cost, and are looking for max fuel economy.



I don't know if the price difference is worth it over the 15w-40.



Here is a link showin a fleet result with 5W-30:



http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/jeff_foster_trucking.htm

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

John, you are right, I probably was the first on the TDR to use Delvac 1, in my '98. 5. You have a good memory! To tell you the truth I was debating Amsoil vs Delvac right up to the moment I went for the Delvac. Seeing this thread got me concerned so that very night after work I swung by RE Powell here in Pasco and picked up a case of Delvac and wanted to get it changed before another day went by. I know I am being overly cautious but didn't want to take any chances (I'm sure you can understand that!).



What Don M says makes sense to me, when you are running hard and/or in hot climates you won't want to go thin on viscosity and film thickness. I think the vis on the 5W30 @ 100C is around 10-11 and the Delvac 1 & Amsoil 15W40 is approx 15 (if I remember right). Part of the reason I went with the 5W30 was because of the reported improvement in oil analysis numbers (but others have seen the reverse or it is too close to really tell), and another reason was understanding that due to its synthetic nature the 5W30 was closer to a 10W40 weight wise at operating temps (this doesn't apprear to be the case if you look at the link on Sled Puller's post where the vis numbers between the Amsoil 5W30 and the dino 5W30 at 100C are pretty close to each other). But like I said, I think Amsoil has a great product and I'm sure the 5W30 is a terrific oil, just be aware of what you are using & how you are using it (I guess that's what I'm trying to say ). Since I live in a climate where temps frequently run 100+ in the summer I don't consider it the right choice for me anymore.



Vaughn

 

[Cliffman]

How Many Miles

Hey Vaughn, how many miles on the 5/30??

 

[barryg41]

I use Rosmella..... Hey it works down here in the south.



It it's not API certified... . who's is going to pay for the rebuild... if it happens? NOT DC!



I just talked to Paul (pwknapp). He is getting ready to do the top end... not the bottom end:--). I said come on... . you dont even want to look at it... he said nope! 270k it still had the cross hatched marks.



Sorry Paul if I stepped on your toes... .

 

[Sled Puller]

Ya know, My Delo stinks too!



Must be the smell of cheap oil! LOL

 

[pwknapp]

Ain't steppin' on my size 12's. Only reason I'm doing the top end is because the darn head gasket is leaking again to the outside world. While I have the head off I figure it's a good time to get it checked out. I've been concerned about trying the lighter wt oils because of the outside temp and the stress associated with using the rig as a daily worker. Summer temps at 98, who knows what at road level (120-140?), pulling a loaded gooseneck all leads me to use whatever will keep it running with the least wear and tear. Sure hope to see those cross hatches when the head comes of this time. Rotella 15-40 every 5k for almost 400k, and 1qt of Lucas oil for make up in between changes.

 

[barryg41]

Oh my gosh!! Gene said it..... he uses Delo!?!?!?!

Originally posted by Sled Puller

Ya know, My Delo stinks too!



Must be the smell of cheap oil! LOL

 

[Don M]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

Ya know, My Delo stinks too!



Must be the smell of cheap oil! LOL

On the other hand maybe the Delo is not the source of the smell

Just kiddin ya!

Don~

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by barryg41

Oh my gosh!! Gene said it..... he uses Delo!?!?!?!

Well, I can't afford the good stuff! I spent all my money on HP!



Soon.



Gene

 

[dseabaugh]

just pulled out my oils scan to compare. 3k on 15/40 rotella t, 73k on unit, iron 26, copper 2 zinc 2367, visc @ 100C 13. 69. In comparison to yours I think I would be micing my disassembled before I could get another nights sleep.

 

[barryg41]

Hey Gene... . not to get off topic... but how far south do you guys go for a sled pull? I would love to see you guys in action. We dont do pull sleds as a normal thing down here. At least not on a weekly or monthly time frame.



Maybe I am not looking hard enough thought.