Oil Analysis Copper

[Axion]

I have been doing oil analysis on my truck since day one, and have only missed 3 out of 28 oil changes, all 3 (#1, #3 & #5) because the tech "forgot". I have never been concerned until this last one and was hoping someone might be able to chime in.



In this last sample, the copper reading skyrocketed to 214 when previously the highest was a 7, and typically between 2 and 4. All of the other metal readings were reasonable based on the oil change interval of just over 14000 miles. The previous interval was 11700 miles and the copper came in at 6!



The very helpful oil analysis company told me the following, "Elevated copper level may be due to increased oil cooler core leaching, not wear. Oil change or new formulation can restart cooler core leaching. " Has anyone ever encountered this leaching and should I be placing an order for a new oil cooler? A change in oil formulation can be ruled out as I've been using Amsoil AME 15W-40 for the last 20 oil changes, and why would an oil change cause an oil cooler core to start leaching after almost 6 years, when the previous copper values have never even been in the double digits?



I thank you in advance for your wisdom.

 

[Axion]

Sorry, forgot to mention the oil filter has not changed either. I have been using a Fleetgaurd LF16035 for the last 16 intervals (about 4 years),

 

[NavyDood]

I've gone through the same thing. I am on my 5th oil change doing the 1yr/25,000 miles OCI using Amsoil AME, Amsoil EaO or Donaldson ELF filter and no bypass. I analyze the oil only when I change it. My analysis reports (in order) for copper have reported 26/590/199/44. I have no other obscure numbers on my reports. Even if I had a bypass the copper readings would still be that high as they are sub-micron in size.

After doing some internet searching and many others with the same problem, I just shrugged it off and have kept on driving. My 590 copper reading was over 85,000 miles ago.

 

[MChrist]

I have heard several times that the POSSIBLE reason is that the synthetic oil is somehow reacting with the copper in the oil cooler, not the bearings. Big question is: if true, how long before there is actually a problem?

Havent heard anything else, but if copper keeps fluctuating, I wouldn't assume it's your bearings, as those would go up gradually. Maybe the synthetic oil is "loosening" the copper from the oil cooler, and it gives off copper randomly and erratically. Personally, I wouldn't worry. I'm having the same thing, and I'm using Mobil 1 5w40 synthetic on 8,000 intervals. My sample is at the lab right now, and I'm awaiting results in about 2 weeks.

 

[AH64ID]

I have seen oil spikes a couple of times, and each one was after a long hot tow (by hot I mean coolant temp) which increased the leeching. Now I don't see the spikes anymore, just the first 2 hot tow's (happened to be on 2 different oil changes).

I am not talking overheat, just sustained over 215° for a few minutes.

Amsoil is also known to leech a little more copper than other oils, and is normal.

 

[Axion]

Thanks for the help. I was kind of worried for a while.



Guess I'll just keep an eye on things and see where the numbers land on the next oil change.

 

[amsoilman]

Here is "Caterpillar's" Take on this issue.

"Per Caterpillar, high levels of copper found in oil analysis are a result of engine cooler core” leaching". The Zinc additive in Diesel Motor oil reacts with the copper cooler core tubes at high oil temperatures. This chemical reaction results in copper oxidation products forming on the surface of the tubes and then coming off into the oil as it washes over and around the tubes. Heat is a catalyst to this chemical reaction. The higher the oil temperature the greater the rate of oxidation and the longer the reaction process is sustained. This does not cause any damage to the cooler core, or to the engine. However, you will see the copper reading elevate to over 100 PPM. Copper is not a particulate in this case but is in solution in the oil. The PPM will start relatively low and increase over 100 PPM and stay at high levels for several intervals, and then return to normal. During the oxidation process, a hard film forms on the tube surfaces exhibiting the appearance of clear varnish. Changes in operating temperatures, and/or changing oil brands can chemically disrupt this film and begin the oxidative leaching processes again. This can occur in any system with a cooler core: Gasoline or Diesel engines transmissions or hydraulic systems. "

The AMSOIL Diesel oils are very high in Zinc and Phosphorus.

Last I checked, the (AME) 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine oil had 1267 ppm Phosphorus, and the Zinc level was 1377 ppm

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

AXION I have been told a man sent in new unused oil trying to establish a base line and it came back with a too high content of copper. Copper is a sign of camshaft bearings wearing excessively. I am a believer of sending in oil samples but sometimes taking one reading too seriously can be a mistake. Look at the reading before and put on a few more miles on the same oil, not many and send in another sample and compare. Nothing in this world is perfect so oil analysis can be flawed too. I look at three reports to make a decision. Good luck.

 

[dlmetzger]

Here is "Caterpillar's" Take on this issue.

"Per Caterpillar, high levels of copper found in oil analysis are a result of engine cooler core” leaching".

Disregard. I wasn't in thinking correctly, oil, not coolant.

 

[NavyDood]

The radiator is aluminum and the engine oil cooler is copper. That is what CAT is referring to.

Oil Analyzers Inc and Blackstone say the same thing about elevated copper levels on our 5. 9's. Even a rep from Cummins Tech Center over on the craptastic DTR site says it is a known issue. The oil cooler leaches causing the copper spikes and the majority of the time it is related to running a true synthetic.

 

[MChrist]

I just got my oil analysis back from Blackstone, and all my numbers are back to normal. My highest copper number was 18, and down to 6 now, and they said it's nothing to worry about, probably the synthetic oil and it won't hurt anything.

I actually thought my numbers would be higher this go-around, since I pulled our camper to South Dakota from Chicago, round trip. I was also on Smarty #7 the whole time. 8,000 miles on this sample, my TBN was still very high and was told to go to 10,000 miles. Makes me wonder if TBN was this high because it's synthetic. .