Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Oil Blowby - Causing Major Leak

[Dave M]

I didn't realize that your's has the Hydraboost brake booster. It is by far the more desirable system as far as I am concerned, but it would have nothing to do with vacuum leaks. However anything else that lets air into the suction side of the vacuum pump could be the culpert. I be interested to hear what the test shows.

It appears that 97 was the first year for the hydroboost. I agree with you that is far superior to vacuum boost and am glad I have it. I had my hands in and around the power steering pump and that should have nothing to do with my oil leak, other than I may have bumped the oil lines (If there is an oil line) to the vacuum pump while working on the power steering pump.



I replaced the p. s. fluid with Redline synthetic from NAPA... so I spent a long time transferring fluid. I took pics and intend to post a thread on that repair. I used a new boost unit ($275 + shipping) from Hyratech and was very pleased with the function... had no problem with air leaks, etc... I believe, because I stayed away from rebuilt booster... . But thats another story and thread.



I will start the beast up pretty soon here and check for leaks, plug wastegate and check for boost rise, and keep on looking today. I'll post results this evening when I'm done.



Mechanic, thanks for all your help here... lottta good troubleshooting info. Thanks to Vaughn and others for helping me out with this diagnosis... Now... Start wrenching... and hope I don't break anything else. Me and the red beast are going to get real intimate today :-laf



Dave



(The fool working on serious diesel stuff on... APRIL FOOLS DAY!... but, this is no joke guys. . its for real :-laf )

 

[Dave M]

Oil Leak Gone!

I looked over the engine pretty thoroughly and could not find a leak source other than my original blowby tube theory . Checked vacuum pump, injection pump, temp sensor, turbo oil line, oil pan and removed blowby tube and put my finger up the fitting on the block to check for blockage... . no leaks.



So. . I cleaned where last weekends leak seemed to have been concentrated... rear main seal and blowby tube. Started up truck... just light puffs black smoke when reving engine... probably due to my low boost (9psi max). no oil coming out tailpipe. . put white sheet paper near tailpipe and had son hit go pedal... no oil on paper .



Took her for spin about 10-15 miles total on highway and up steep hills after plugging boost line to wastegate at AFC housing and then plugged intake to AFC housing line... No change in boost. Kept checking rear main seal (no leaks) and blowby tube... light smoke from blowby at times by minimal . Put bottle on blowby tube and never seen a drop of oil in it... Geeez!



Popped oil fill cap. Got metallic type noise out of gear box and puffing a little whiteish smoke. Put hand over oil fill cavity..... can't feel any pressure at all... same for blowby tube .



Pulled radiator cap while running. Looked like a big bubble trying to pop under surface but it never did. No bubbles or oil film. Dumped overflow tube... no oil residue. Replaced antifreeze in November so it all looked green. Even after driving and getting engine hot, radiator OK .



Noticed I still have a power steering leak around at p. s. pump. Think I scored the return line fitting when I cut it off of pump :{ . . so I need to fix it but leak is not too bad yet. Thats totally unrelated to my oil leak issue.



I'm stumped! Today I'll remove turbo lines and do compression check and will update youse guys with the results. Cummins said if oil is overfilled it would cause the oil to go out blowby. But its OK now. Haven't yet put a 100 mile trip on it but will take it to Cummins Fresno Monday (50 miles one way) for Manometer blowby test.



SOOOO... . What could cause an intermittant oil blowby of 6 quarts in 200 miles? Hmmm..... Anybody venture a guess :-{} ? I'll keep you posted as events unfold. And now back to your regularly scheduled threads .





Dave... Dumfounded in California! :-laf

 

[Neibe]

This might be a long shot but check the bolts on the AFC housing to see if they are tight. We got back from a camping trip and I saw oil dripping out of the motor and it was in the general area of the vent tube so it could appear to be coming out of the tube. The bolts on my AFC had come loose probably from my numerous tinkering. As for the vacuum pump a leak from there will spray oil all over and make quiet a mess could also look like it is the vent tube.

 

[mechanic]

I looked over the engine pretty thoroughly and could not find a leak source other than my original blowby tube theory . Checked vacuum pump, injection pump, temp sensor, turbo oil line, oil pan and removed blowby tube and put my finger up the fitting on the block to check for blockage... . no leaks.



So. . I cleaned where last weekends leak seemed to have been concentrated... rear main seal and blowby tube. Started up truck... just light puffs black smoke when reving engine... probably due to my low boost (9psi max). no oil coming out tailpipe. . put white sheet paper near tailpipe and had son hit go pedal... no oil on paper .



Took her for spin about 10-15 miles total on highway and up steep hills after plugging boost line to wastegate at AFC housing and then plugged intake to AFC housing line... No change in boost. Kept checking rear main seal (no leaks) and blowby tube... light smoke from blowby at times by minimal . Put bottle on blowby tube and never seen a drop of oil in it... Geeez!



Popped oil fill cap. Got metallic type noise out of gear box and puffing a little whiteish smoke. Put hand over oil fill cavity..... can't feel any pressure at all... same for blowby tube .



Pulled radiator cap while running. Looked like a big bubble trying to pop under surface but it never did. No bubbles or oil film. Dumped overflow tube... no oil residue. Replaced antifreeze in November so it all looked green. Even after driving and getting engine hot, radiator OK .



Noticed I still have a power steering leak around at p. s. pump. Think I scored the return line fitting when I cut it off of pump :{ . . so I need to fix it but leak is not too bad yet. Thats totally unrelated to my oil leak issue.



I'm stumped! Today I'll remove turbo lines and do compression check and will update youse guys with the results. Cummins said if oil is overfilled it would cause the oil to go out blowby. But its OK now. Haven't yet put a 100 mile trip on it but will take it to Cummins Fresno Monday (50 miles one way) for Manometer blowby test.



SOOOO... . What could cause an intermittant oil blowby of 6 quarts in 200 miles? Hmmm..... Anybody venture a guess :-{} ? I'll keep you posted as events unfold. And now back to your regularly scheduled threads .





Dave... Dumfounded in California! :-laf

Dave,

This is getting interesting. It will be interesting to see what Cummins finds.

I have had situations come and go and never knew why. Maby this is one of them.

I suppose that your low boost pressure could have caused a rich condition which could have caused excessive soot which could have temporarily stuck a top ring or two.

Engines with Keystone type rings usually do not stick and tend to be self freeing if they do, but with machines almost any thing is possible.

I admit that that is a lot of mabe's, and could be miles of base, but I am just thinking.

 

[Andy Redmond]

That oil line you refer to is tee'd off the oil rifle. If it leaked/leaked intermittantly it could dump some oil in hurry. It is under pressure to the lube the vac. pump and the lower end of the injection pump. Both units return oil into the gear housing.



Re- ck. the oil pressure sending unit, sometimes they will cause a good leak (elec. portion seperates from the metal portion).



A cup plug could come out of the block (behind/inside tappet cover and requires injection pump removal to remove the tappet cover for a peek). Usually oil pressure falls off though.



The manometer test should tell the tale of the oil mist or leak.



Good luck

Andy

 

[Dave M]

Yippeee!

I didn't see much of any oil leaks and drove it another 40 miles. But I found the boost leak Here:



The boot was on passenger side where it connect to the intercooler and as you can see it rubs on the red fender lip and put a 3 inch split in it.



So I got a good fix for it. Instead of spending big bucks for new intercooler boots just do this shown in the 3rd pic with the steel intercooler pipe.



AH!... DUCT TAPE ... Natures perfect fix for any situation. Simple yet effective . . and once you stick in on there its never coming off :-laf Every toolbox sould have a roll.



I ductaped it, put it back together and took it for a spin and... . VaWALLAA... hit 20 PSI boost Oo. where I was getting 9 psi boost. I sure am glad I put them gages in or or would never know the low power was due to the boost leak. Man I've been driving around for 2 years with this dog and now... . WOOPEEE... Its a new truck. Boy can I hear that turbo whistle now... . YAHOO! Oo.

Originally Posted by Mechanic:

Dave,

This is getting interesting. It will be interesting to see what Cummins finds.

I have had situations come and go and never knew why. Maby this is one of them.

I suppose that your low boost pressure could have caused a rich condition which could have caused excessive soot which could have temporarily stuck a top ring or two. Engines with Keystone type rings usually do not stick and tend to be self freeing if they do, but with machines almost any thing is possible.

I admit that that is a lot of mabe's, and could be miles of base, but I am just thinking.

Mechanic, I agee with you. I think this could be a good expanation of this intermittant oil blowby problem.

 

[Andy Redmond]

Golly Dave, are you a rancher?



I grew up in Wyoming where I saw many things which were repaired (albeit temporaily with the rancher's three best fix-its-- duct tape, bailing wire and WD-40. Most of the other 49 states seem to like these three as well. I do love a good steak, so God bless the rancher, just keep him away from anything that's not a "Critter. "



Seriously, go get-ya a new boot, they aren't that expensive. Besides anybody reputable isn't going to want to assist you in finding your oil blowby, with your duct tape band-aid.



Good luck

Andy

 

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by Neibe:

This might be a long shot but check the bolts on the AFC housing to see if they are tight.

I checked the AFc housing area real good yesterday but could not see a leak there. There is a slight leak possibly on a square looking engine block plate that bolts under the AFC and toward firewall which has the blowby tube on it. Doesn't look like a significant leak tho.

Originally Posted by Neibe:As for the vacuum pump a leak from there will spray oil all over and make quiet a mess could also look like it is the vent tube.

Looked at the vacuum pump again and it is dry. . no leaks there... externally anyhow.

Originally posted by Andy Redmond:

That oil line you refer to is tee'd off the oil rifle. If it leaked/leaked intermittantly it could dump some oil in hurry. It is under pressure to the lube the vac. pump and the lower end of the injection pump. Both units return oil into the gear housing.



Re- ck. the oil pressure sending unit, sometimes they will cause a good leak (elec. portion seperates from the metal portion). A cup plug could come out of the block (behind/inside tappet cover and requires injection pump removal to remove the tappet cover for a peek). Usually oil pressure falls off though. The manometer test should tell the tale of the oil mist or leak

.

Andy, Good points to investigate. Pulled the connector off the oil sending unit (If its behind the vacuum pump) and cleand it. . shows no sign of leaking.



The oil line to vaccum pump and injection pump were checked... no leaks.

A cup plug could cause it but it should not of stopped. Or maybe it occurs only at sustained speeds. I'll check it tomorrow when I drive to Cummins (50 miles). Good points to look at though... good thinking.



I tried to do compression test but did not have a deep socket to fit the lower mounting nut of the injector. What size is it... So I can buy the right one. . looks like around 1 inch. Heres a pic of the 19 mm wrench on the injection line to #1 and the 10mm (I think) wrench on the drain line to #1.

 

[Dave M]

:-laf :-laf

Golly Dave, are you a rancher?



I grew up in Wyoming where I saw many things which were repaired (albeit temporaily with the rancher's three best fix-its-- duct tape, bailing wire and WD-40. Most of the other 49 states seem to like these three as well. I do love a good steak, so God bless the rancher, just keep him away from anything that's not a "Critter. "



Seriously, go get-ya a new boot, they aren't that expensive. Besides anybody reputable isn't going to want to assist you in finding your oil blowby, with your duct tape band-aid.

Good luck

Andy

Andy,



Gottcha... April Fools!... HeHeHe :-laf Just kidding you guys. I wouldn't leave the boot like that but did it to prove that was the boost leak. Thought I'd get a rise out of a few of ya :-laf :-laf . I'll probably buy one tomorrow from Cummins when I take it in for the Blowby test.



Now. . Seriously... Could someone tell me what size socket (or what you use) to pop the injector out. I assume the injector is threaded in so a deep socket of ? size should get it out.



Thanks all for hanging in there with me on this trouble. Andy, I take it Piers intercooler boots won't get some competition from my boot fix?



I post again tomorrow after the blowby test.



Thanks all,



Dave

 

[ctdf]

I had a serious oil leak, worse when pulling trailer, oil was undercoating the truck and the front of the trailer. When the truck was empty and I would drive 60mph or slower, thats not much fun, I could drive forever and use no oil, but drive 70-80 hard it would use 4 quarts every 1-200 miles, and then put a 6000 lb trailer and 10000 lb skid loader on it driving 50-70 with your foot in it and it used 5 quarts in 21 miles :--) , and it was full when I left, good thing I had more oil.

The blowby was horrible but not 5 quarts in 21 miles bad, thought head gasket, as had replace it a year earlier, so I was going to change it and the head, as it showed a crack when magnafluxed then also, compression checked ok, but what the heck, already had the new head and gasket. Got the intake off and noticed oil standing in it , took the turbo off and pulled the compressor cover off, it had been rubbing the compressor wheel on the alum. housing, and the exhaust was leaking some oil to. Best guess is the bearings went and the seals couldn't seal all the slop in there so when I was building lots of boost the oil was being pushed by the seals into the intake and exhaust sides both and the pressure from, I guess the intake side, being it had the most slop, the boost was being pushed the other way past the seal into the return line creating my excessive blow by.

This may be a rare thing that happens or never to others but that what seems to be my luck. Hope this helps someone.

 

[Dave M]

I had a serious oil leak, worse when pulling trailer, oil was undercoating the truck and the front of the trailer... ... . The blowby was horrible but not 5 quarts in 21 miles bad, ... ..... Got the intake off and noticed oil standing in it , took the turbo off and pulled the compressor cover off, it had been rubbing the compressor wheel on the alum. housing, and the exhaust was leaking some oil to. Best guess is the bearings went and the seals couldn't seal all the slop in there so when I was building lots of boost the oil was being pushed by the seals into the intake and exhaust sides both and the pressure from, I guess the intake side, being it had the most slop, the boost was being pushed the other way past the seal into the return line creating my excessive blow by.

This may be a rare thing that happens or never to others but that what seems to be my luck. Hope this helps someone.

This sounds like a more likely scenario for me than "Overfilling" the oil causing the blowby to occur. Although I did not notice oil in the exhaust llike you did and I had no oil in the intercooler boot coming from the turbo side and the compressor blades on the turbo had no oil on them . Its possible a bad turbo could cause this. But I read a post on "Blowby" where a ring was cracked and was causing blowby above 60 MPH. Thats kinda weird too.



I'm still waiting for something to break again. :{



I have an update on my Cummins trip yesterday but got to leave... So I'll try to post more results tonight. I also have another interesting problem that developed yesterday with the truck thats sounds related .



Stay Tuned Ya. . ALL! The never-ending truck trouble. It just won't end. . will it ?



Dave

 

[acook]

Have you looked to see if the front gear housing maybe busted from the dowl pin? Also look at the tappet cover gasket behind the fuel pump along the length of the block. If this is blown you more than likely have a scorn cylinder.

Also if the baffle on the tappet cover has become loose it will allow oil to escape out the blow-by tube.

 

[Andy Redmond]

Okay Dave, you need a calendar too April Fool's was on 4/1 not 4/4.



Try your 15/16" deep socket although its actually metric . It will not work on no. 1, as the engine lifting bracket interferes, you'll need a crowsfoot wrench. I have some Snap On "crowsfoot" wrenches that are like a flare nut wrench with the end cut off, but with a 12pt socket surface and a boss for the 3/8" drive ratchet. They are about $25 a piece but worth every penny.



You will need an injector puller, you can make one from a piece of metal 1" elec. conduit. Then chop off a piece one inch long. Find a 9/16" washer to lay over it (you could tack weld or braze) the washer to the conduit, thread the lug nut down onto the injector and it will "pull" it out of the head (remove the hold down nut first). You'll need a metric lug nut to thread onto the injector, try one that's M14.



Andy

 

[Dave M]

Have you looked to see if the front gear housing maybe busted from the dowl pin? Also look at the tappet cover gasket behind the fuel pump along the length of the block. If this is blown you more than likely have a scorn cylinder.

Also if the baffle on the tappet cover has become loose it will allow oil to escape out the blow-by tube.

I did the KDP in November, and I've checked for leaks there and there are none. The tappet cover is very hard to see but I did notice that the cover that the blowby tube is mounted to at the rear of the engine had an some oil(I believe it is oil. . it was black anyhow) around the rear of the cover and on the last bolt there holding it to the block, but not a serious leak... I just see a little oil there. I'll try tightening the bolt. Hard to see behind the injection pump but I'll look again. Nothing up there looks like it had a serious leak of 3 gallons oil.



The thing is it has stopped and hasn't come back.



Took the beast to Cummins yesterday and had the blowby test done. It passed. I drove for 150 miles so far with a drip bottle on the blowby tube with a few drops of oil in it. The blowby test was done after driving at freeway speeds for over an hour and they got to it right away so engine was still hot. Results of Blowby test:



1 inch at Idle

8 inch at 2900 RPM (parked... not driven)

Max blowby is 16 inches @ W. O. T.



Cummins Diagnosis: leak possibly caused by overfilling oil. They could be right. I might have not let engine sit long enough before checking oil level... not sure!



After I got home I stopped at NAPA (10 miles from home) and when I left I started hearing a loud groaning from the turbo side of engine any time I pushed it (1PSI boost) If I got it rolling at 50 MPH and no load on engine then it quit. Got Home and had my son rev engine while I listened in engine compartment and it would make the noise only close to 2900 RPM. I could not tell if it was alternator, A/C compressor bearings or turbo. Gut feeling is it was turbo.



I noticed my boost was down to 9 PSI on the way home from Fresno (mostly uphill from 300 feet to 3,000 feet elavation) so I checked the duct taped boot and the clamp was hanging loose and boot slipped almost off intercooler. Fixed it and took it for spin... . No Noise and had boost back up to about 15 PSI. Hmmm... . Another disappearing problem. Last weekend when I fixed my boost I did notice this groan briefly some when I got the boost up to 20 PSI but it didn't last more than a second or two and I wasn't sure if it was the heater blower or what.



Wife drove it about 20 miles today... . no noise. I'm getting a mechanics stethescope thing and this weekend I'll be ready if the noise comes back.



So... Lets see what we have here. A dissappearing oil leak and a disappearing turbo noise (perhaps) . Whats common here... . OH NO... Its me!

Originally Posted By Andy Redmond:

Okay Dave, you need a calendar too April Fool's was on 4/1 not 4/4.

Your right! I'm such a fool though, it doesn't matter. I don't even know what day it is. :-laf

Seriously though, thanks for the info on the injector socket and how to pop it out. I couldn't find a deep socket to fit that I had. The guy at Cummins said it was 1 1/8 inch, so I bought that. Sounds like he is wrong. . Huh?

I'll try it this weekend again. Thanks for the info. It makes a lot of sense and should go easier next time.



Dave

 

[Dave M]

Golly Dave, are you a rancher?:



I grew up in Wyoming where I saw many things which were repaired (albeit temporaily with the rancher's three best fix-its-- duct tape, bailing wire and WD-40. Most of the other 49 states seem to like these three as well. I do love a good steak, so God bless the rancher, just keep him away from anything that's not a "Critter. "



Seriously, go get-ya a new boot, they aren't that expensive. Besides anybody reputable isn't going to want to assist you in finding your oil blowby, with your duct tape band-aid. Good luck Andy

Andy,



Weell... I kinda figured my duct taped boot might not be too reliable in the long run... especially if I stomp on the go pedal , so I took your advice and ordered a new set of intercooler boots fron Piers Oo. .



Just as an update... No more oil loss ... No more groaning from turbo side of engine after reconnecting the duct taped intercooler boot that slipped :-laf . If any thing further comes up I'll update you guys... It just doesn't seem possibly to lose 3 gallons of oil that quickly by overfilling the oil. I'm skeptical, so I'll keep a close eye on things.



The power steering pump leak has been fixed . You remember I recently replaced my hyroboost unit and thought by cutting the return line to power steering pump I may have scored the return fitting on the pump. Well... when I was at Cumminns Monday for the blowby test I asked the mechanic about the leak and he suggested replacing the power steering pump resouvoir cap since there seemed to be fliud coming out below it... . Vawala... the leak is gone... so far anyhow.



After fixing the boost leak (temporarily with duct tape) My wife drove the truck to Fresno and back (100+ miles total) and said on the way up the mountain she was passing people and she is all .



I have had this truck for 2 years (my first diesel) and its always had this boost leak but without gages I didn't know it... . I just thought the truck was a dog. Thanks to this TDR site, you guys have pulled though by convincing me to get gages and then pointed me to the one of the most likey spots for the boost leak. . and that was it. Now the truck is fun to drive. Oo.



I'm going to check compression (just because) and then adjust valves and then check timing. Then put in the #10 plate and 3K GSK... . Boy I can't wait to see what that will do to this truck... . WHOOPEE! Oo.



I'll update with the compression test results probably this weekend.



Thanks everyone for the great help on this oil leak thing and so far it looks like my engine is healthy. Thank God!



Dave

 

[vonTrapp]

Hi All!



Well, I thought rather than starting a new thread, I'd carry on with this one.



The problem with oil barfing out of the BB tube affects our 98 Dodge also. On a recent run up to Red Deer, I blew out almost 9 litres before I realized we had a serious problem.



Same situation as the others... I run the old girl all day and she'll lose nothing. Up hills, I can run the boost at 20psi, and no oil will spew out. Yet, get on the hiway and run over 2100rpm for a sustained periods, and she'll start barfing out the BB tube.



In spite of the high mileage, I have to eliminate the rings as being the culprit (for now), if for no other reason than the 5. 9L has one tough bottom end. We've been trying to schedule downtime to get a leak down test done (nearing the point for a head rebuild I think... 460,000km on the odo now) and I have seen no oil in the intake or exhaust side of the turbo. Turbo has NO in/out play... just a smidge up/down (which is normal).



But this vacuum pump issue really caught my eye. It's the one area of the truck I've never even looked at.



1) Could someone help me out with how that thing actually works and what type of test I could run myself to discover where a line may be sucking air?

2)Which line vents into the crankcase?



Thanks all!

 

[dtygart]

DaveM

You might want to get a special socket for the injector fuel line nuts (sorta like a flare tubing fitting wrench, but a socket) to torque the fuel fitting nuts. Regular deep socket for the injectors themselves. good luck!

david

 

[dtygart]

oh, silly me, I just noticed this thread is about six months old... well, hope he made out ok on his compression test!

david

 

[Andy Redmond]

Von Trapp:



The vacuum pump attaches to the gear housing and also spins your ps pump. The vacuum pump is driven by a gear (meshes with the other gears in the gear housing) pressed onto the nose of the pump shaft. The pump makes vacuum when centrifical force slings out little fiber/rubber vanes against the pump wall. It should make 20-25" Hg at idle.



The line that attaches to the bottom of it(tee'd off the oil rifle), lubes the pump and it exhausts into the gear housing.



The seal in the pump (where it joins to the ps pump) is the one that can allow an oil seep or leak. My experience with a leaky vacuum pump is that this is a constant and worsening leak, not one that is intermittant.



The road draft tube is attached to the tappet cover (behind injection pump along entire ds of engine) on the 12v's.



On 24 valves the road draft tube is attached to the front of the gear housing.



If you added a catch bottle to your crankcase vent/draft tube and it was full (blowby oil, water (carwash)), I suppose a little vacuum type action could occur to try to "siphon" oil.



I would think this is a long shot.



Get the manometer test for sure and monitor if one brand of oil at changes seems to aggrivate the problem.



To your specific questions:



"Which line sucking air" Presumably you refer to vacuum lines, try near the hydro-boost above the fuel filter or anywhere aoft rubber vacuum tubing attaches to the hard plastic tubing.



Also the ds battery is notorious for leaking and the acid eating the vacuum lines at the cruise servo (under neath ds battery box).



Line venting to crankcase?



N/a open crankcase breather and non-vented "ported" vacuum system.



BTW, send me a PM if you have trouble finding a vacuum pump repair kit (re-seal kit).



Good luck

Andy

 

[vonTrapp]

Thanks Andy



PM on the way.