OK if Submarines and Locomotives can do it WHY

[Forrest Nearing]

not sure about the subs, but the new breed of locomotives roll in at over 400,000lbs... the engines in these new ones are rated at 4500hp and give between 4300-4400hp available for the traction motors

my point is that they can afford the weight penalty...

 

[AKaiser]

One thing to remember is that every time you change the energy from one form to another, you lose a bit. I seem to recall a story about locomotives, which operate on the system being discussed in this thread, where it was stated that it required 250 hp from the diesel just to excite the electrics before they put out anything.

This is why large electric motors are run on 3 phase power. It takes at least twice as much electricity to get it going (breakout force) than it does to keep it going. What I learned living on a farm

 

[HGreen]

10 years ago I was working on a project for hybird electric transit buses for a local government. The ones we purchased were made by AVS in TN that had a small turbine that would charge the batteries permitting operation as long as you had fuel. The only problem is that the battery technology was not up to speed and they were never delivered. The turbine was interesting is that it was the size of a beer keg and would run on just about any fuel. We were going with diesel, but others were using JP4, propane, natural gas. These buses were in the neighborhood of 24 passengers and weren't light. The technology was great and would work in a pickup.

 

[Skydiver]

I thought this was interesting. At least it saves fuel.

10HP_Chevy



I would be happy to rotate my rear axle 90 degrees and mount a 100 horse motor in the bed over the yoke. Installing A generator in place of the transmission would be expensive as well. Problem is I think I would become less efficient.

 

[Road Dog]

It works on locomotives and submarines because you don't care about the weight. You need an engine, generator and one or more electric motors. You don't need a transmision but in the end you're probably still doubling the weight of the powertrain. Batteries add a lot of weight too so the idea of a battery pack with engine-generator backup sounds good but you'd need a 1T truck to haul it around.

Still... someone will figure it out.

 

[MA2LA]

well think about how heavy our drive trains are to begin with.

 

[ssanders60]

Hybrids

GE Transportation



A true hybrid locomotive is now on the market by Gen. Electric.

About 3 yrs ago they reduced the V-16 4400 HP locomotive prime mover

to a V-12 with the same HP, a 5% savings in fuel . The new hybrid

of course has a bank of batteries that are charged when in dynamic braking,

enough power to support 160 homes for one year, an amount that is generated by one locomotive during 1 yr. of normal operation. And yes,

the power is AC, much less maintenance, much more traction effort in the

amount of tens of thousands more pounds of effort than the conventional

DC units. This unit will amount to a 15 % or more in fuel savings.

Already there is an Army vehicle (huge truck) powered like this.

For those who are not familiar with dynamic braking, the process is when

the engr. places the power lever from power to braking, coming out on the

throttle causing the electric motors on the axle to start generating electricity

which is then fed to the batteries. You might call this reversing polarity.

To date this power generated by dynamic braking goes to large heating grids

and the heat disapated to the atmosphere by huge fans, a waste that is in the amount that it could power 160 houses for one year.

I could see this in hwy trucks like the army vehicle, however it would make

an expensive automobile or pickup.

But, no transmission necessary.

 

[rbattelle]

one things you guys will like to hear is cat has done this exact thing on their brand new d7's

Here's a link to the article. Impressive efficiency gains.

Here again we have an application where weight isn't much concern.

I thought Red Rocket was going to take on this project.

Ryan

 

[hammersley]

Yep...........about time

Here's a link to the article. Impressive efficiency gains.



Here again we have an application where weight isn't much concern.



I thought Red Rocket was going to take on this project.



Ryan

No Question that this is a HUGE STEP in the right direction... ... .

 

[JesseJ]

I had the same thought since I'm in the charter bus business. I figured we could drop a b-series motor in a bus running a generator to replace the 14L motor and auto. trans. combo. Use traction motors on the wheels and voila! Instant improvement in mileage. Is it possible? Who knows, just a thought. I think if any hybrid/electric vehicle is going to become mainstream and/or feasible and/or affordable, battery technology needs to make some huge strides forward in the coming years.

 

[RoryTek]

Cat has a D7E with a C6 driving an AC generator.

 

[AKaiser]

I had the same thought since I'm in the charter bus business. I figured we could drop a b-series motor in a bus running a generator to replace the 14L motor and auto. trans. combo. Use traction motors on the wheels and voila! Instant improvement in mileage. Is it possible? Who knows, just a thought. I think if any hybrid/electric vehicle is going to become mainstream and/or feasible and/or affordable, battery technology needs to make some huge strides forward in the coming years.

This sounds like a possible retrofit waiting to happen. Certainly would be easier than retrofitting a system with batteries.

 

[JesseJ]

Well, like I said, just an idea, it would probably cost a lot of money to actually do it. My other idea was just batteries. Of course as I said before, batteries would need to make a giant leap forward in technology, but I know solar power technology is coming along quite nicely. They are working on a spray on film that would work just the same as a solar panel except WAY cheaper. They're trying to do it for things like siding, shingles, etc. Basically to make your whole house a solar panel. Well, my other idea was that if they can perfect the spray on film then it's only a matter of time until they could just mix it in paint and spray it on a bus, which is HUGE and would have lots of surface area exposed to the sun. Take out 3000+ lbs. in current running gear and stuff it with batteries, and a couple of electric motors. A completely green vehicle for the tree huggers And someday could make someone rich since I just gave away my secret. :-laf