OK, whadda ya think: HYDROGEN injection?

[ChesterRam]

In my never ending quest to squeeze the most mpg out of my engines (my wife thinks I'm obsessed) I've come upon this site claiming a simple way to inject hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) into your airbox.



Hydrogen Boost Project



While this makes sense to me in a way, my questions have held me up from forging ahead (I'll probably try it on the wifes honda 1st ).



1) Do you think it will work? How about on our diesels?



2) I know we inject other gases,,,wouldn't the results be just like propane?



3) Problems or possibilities?

 

[tgbol]

under Question 3. You are creating a bomb! I had a chemistry teacher that used to fill balloons with oxygen and hydrogen. during a lecture he would set them off. One time he had a load in one and it blew the ceiling apart. Any spark in the gases could create a hole in your truck!

 

[Alan Reagan]

Hydrogen could be very dangerous. Main reason, if you injected a little hydrogen and your grid heaters came on, you could blow the intake manifold cover off, not to mention what the reverse "poof" would do when the turbo spun immediately in the reverse direction from an explosion on the intake side. We made hydrogen in college chemistry experiments and the danged stuff is highly explosive when mixed with oxygen and given an ignition source. I'd be afraid to carry it around in a vehicle.

 

[Batman]

Oh the humanity... ... ... ..... can you remember the Zepplin that blew up, I beleive that was filled with hydrogen.

 

[John Berger]

If that would work, you would have the first Dodge truck that is Hydrogen BOMBed

 

[John]

that's not quite correct...

Originally posted by John Berger

If that would work, you would have the first Dodge truck that is Hydrogen BOMBed

Not quite... Rob Hanson has had an experimental hydrogen unit on his Ram for at least a year, maybe a year and a half now. It was designed and fabricated by a co-worker of his.

 

[John Berger]

DOH!!!

... and we can't talk to Rob anymore I'll have to check for posts on the performance results. Thanks for the update.

 

[Todd T]

i just got an email from the TST site and some guy is claiming to have mixed one to one his diesel with gasoline. I dont know if he was kidding or not. but he says it idles ruff but seems to have more power and gets 41 MPG.



I didnt even want to reply to that one, If he is not kidding he will be due for a new injection pump soon. but I figure I'll let him figure that out for himself.

 

[RustyJC]

I've worked in and managed Technical Service and Maintenance Technology groups for a major industrial engine manufacturer for almost 30 years. Among the factors we analyze on applications of spark-ignited gaseous fuel and dual-fuel (gas/diesel) engines are combustion stability, flame front propagation speed and other similar characteristics that are dependent upon the fuel being used. Based on extensive experimentation and field experience with varying percentages of hydrogen in fuel gas supplies, we know that hydrogen is an extremely "touchy" fuel. The problem is that hydrogen has such a strong affinity for oxygen, once combustion is initiated, hydrogen has an extremely rapid (some would say "explosive") combustion rate! This can lead to abnormally high peak firing pressures and combustion zone temperatures - similar to what we would see with overadvanced timing or even preignition. So, aside from the extremely hazardous aspects of handling hydrogen, I would urge any experimenters to be very cautious - the results could easily be mechanical mayhem in the combustion zone (head gaskets, pistons, etc. ).



Rusty

 

[Devildog]

Besides the fact that it burn clear, you cant see the flame! We had to use a straw broom to check for flames before we would go near the tanks. We use hydrogen nitrogen mix injected into a muffle in an anealing process, If the hydrogen levels get above 15% and the temp. isn't above 650c degrees and you lift the screen to look in the muffle in goes the O2 and boom... off come your mustache, beard, eyebrows and lets not forget the haircut and instant sunburn. and almost forgot the damaged "fruit of the looms"

 

[jwgary]

Breakin' the law

Besides the obvious drawbacks of using pure hydrogen already discussed, the way you have this device drawn up violates the first law of thermodynamics if you expect to get any more power out of it. You are using electricity to split water into H2 and O2. When you pass these through the combustion chamber they will burn and recombine into the same water that you split. The extra energy you are creating at the flywheel is eaten up by the alternator generating enough electricity for the electrolisys process. The best you could ever expect to do is to break even. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't argue with these fundamental laws.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Re: Breakin' the law

Originally posted by jwgary

Besides the obvious drawbacks of using pure hydrogen already discussed, the way you have this device drawn up violates the first law of thermodynamics if you expect to get any more power out of it. You are using electricity to split water into H2 and O2. When you pass these through the combustion chamber they will burn and recombine into the same water that you split. The extra energy you are creating at the flywheel is eaten up by the alternator generating enough electricity for the electrolisys process. The best you could ever expect to do is to break even. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't argue with these fundamental laws.

BINGO!



I thought I had some "different" ideas. A cummins powered Hindenberg would be a cool sight except fot the flaming bodies.



the benefit that "could" be from using such a device would be more complete combustion of the base fuel (gasoline or diesel)



One thing the guy did not consider for electrodes..... carbon

 

[WOWZY]

If you did this you could be compared to the Cliffdivers of the Fiji Islands. There are only 2 classes of Cliffdivers.



1) There is the Grand Champion Cliffdiver



2) There is Stuff on the rocks below.





I'm betting that you'd be the stuff on the rocks below

 

[BLACKRAM]

Your "Hydrogen BOMB" could set off a Project Echelon word search. Soon you will see NSA and FEMA agents at your door.



I heard they like Dodge trucks

 

[DSiemens]

Another issues is that the reaction creates water, although this would be very small, even a small amount could pose a problem with a compression ratio as high as a diesel.



Nitrous would be much safer here.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Try Methinol!!

I think the idea of hydrogen & oxygen may produce more power. But this is a unknown. If it works, it may work well. If it dosent work, it may be catistrophic. Under hood explosions can be hard on equipment. However there are methods that have been proven and they work VERY WELL. Try alcohol in the air intake (before the charger) the alcohol drops the charge air temps and adds fuel. Diesel tractor pullers have been using alcohol for YEARS very sucessfully. NTPA (national tractor pullers association) has banned alcohol use in diesel pullers. Why? Because it has a very dramatic power increase. The alcohol of choice is methinol. If straight methinol is two much for you you can cut it with a hydrogen oxygen mix. . WATER. The water and alcohol mix helps with high egts and adds POWER!! The bigest argument I get against methinol is that the tractor pullers only use it for a few seconds, and this is true. But I have used meth in the field for long periods of time and it works great. More power, cooler egts and less smoke. The addition of meth helps burn the excess diesel fuel. You will see a light haze from the exhaust but little or no black smoke at full power. The light red blue based flame coming from the stack is the look of power.