Opinion on eBay Transaction gone bad...

[EBottema]

Hey guys-



About 3 weeks ago I saw an auction by a private seller for a brand new set of Alcoa wheels for my dad's 96 truck. I jumped on the price. I emailed the seller with over 200+ feedback which was 100% positives and asked him if he wanted to end the auction. He said fine for the 4 wheels and shipping for $450. I offered 435 and the deal was done. I paypal'd him with my credit card and he shipped them fedex ground. They came from Arizona to California and he took 2 rims in the original single wall alcoa boxes and taped them together. The packaging was terrible and the outside lips of the rims wore through the boxes during transit and put a bunch of small like nicks/gouges in the lips of the rims. I contacted the seller and he said he would contact fedex. I brought them down for the inspection and they flat out said the items were not packaged good enough. I knew that before they said that. I let the seller know that and asked him when he was going to finish the claim. If fedex agreeed to pay any money, they issue the seller the check. I asked him when he was going to issue me the check for the damaged rims. He said only if I sent back the rims to him. He said that was only fair. Let me get this straight, he gets to keep my original 435, the wheels, and I'll i get is my 435 back minus about the 50 bucks it costs to ship them back. So he gets my money and free wheels. Remember he is a private seller, not a company. I told him that was BS and then he told me I cant expect to keep the wheels and any of the fedex claims since the wheels would belong to him if he gives me any of the claims check. . I dont get it, im sure you guys wont either. Well, i contact my credit card company, discover, and he cancelled and credited me back the 435. I then got a threatening email from him saying he I don't cancel the chargeback then he was going to file a lawsuit and make me pay all attoney fees. I'm sure it is just a scare tactic but I did email him back saying if he wants to work something out by crediting me half or giving me half the claims check for the damged wheels then I would gladfully cancel the chargeback. What legal rights does he have against me? The guy is still unwilling to give me an compensation for the damaged product even though it was his fault. Anyone ever in the same boat?



I've been buying/selling on ebay for 5 years and never had this much of a problem before. I have over 260 feedback at 100% rating. I will say, feedback does not mean much sometimes... .

 

[Bertram65]

If they are not clear coated can you just have them buffed out? Might be cheaper than the $50 to send them back and the seller may be willing to help you out on it. Are they still a good deal even with the nicks for $435? If so I would just keep them.

 

[jwilliams3]

Tell him you'll see him in court and then *enter choice term

 

[JoshPeters]

There are rim repair places that can easily fix a little damage like that. There is one here in MN that is even portable. He came to the dealership that I worked at and did the repairs on the spot.



Josh

 

[EBottema]

Buffing will not work, the damage is too deep, they almost need to be ground. I would like to get a shop to repair them or even just take some 2000 grit paper and wet sand it a little, repolish and be done with it. When the rims are sanded and polished again on the truck they wont be too noticable. Yes 435 is a good dealer compared to 750 I would have paid from a dealer but I bought *new* rims and did not get those so it is the principal. If the guy ends up suing me, he is in AZ, I am in CA, doesnt he have to file the suit in my county? Thanks guys. I emailed him more pics last night since he said the first ones were not good enough and now he said "he's tied up and he will talk to me on Weds. " lol

 

[JoshPeters]

There is another company that we delt with that would take a severly damaged wheel and repair it. If you look for a post that I had a while back... . with an E-class that smoked the tires off the rims..... they fixed those. They have also repaired a couple of over a curb or the massive MN pothole damaged wheels. They would refinish the entire wheel to match.



Josh

 

[EBottema]

Here are some pics of the rims. You can see where the lip wore through the boxes. On the lip of the rim, you can see where it got a bunch of reall small nicks/gouges in them.



Erik

 

[bmoeller]

They don't look that bad to me. I've seen tire shops do more damage than that, just putting the tires on the rims.

 

[C. Harlan]

Dang... Looks just like the rims on my truck! Wait, they are the same! They honestly dont look too bad... I thought you were talking about large gouges, not small pits... $435 is a hell of a deal if you ask me.



-Chris-

 

[guava]

As far as ebay and private sellers go, if they are big enough to accept visa/american express/discover, then they are big enough to accept the terms they require. That means they need to provide the level of service and guarantee the credit cards require. F'em. All your saying is you want to return them because they didn't arrive as specified in the sale. He said no and your within your right to protest the charge. Just keep on top of your credit card company to follow through with all the forms and information they require. Otherwise, they will just give him the money back.



Anymore, I don't buy online unless I know the person or have history with the company. Either way, I will only pay with credit cards.



That being said, the rims do look good. You did pay for rims that didn't have that damage to start with so its up to you. Your in the right on this one and its a civil matter already established with the credit companies. Long history of case law.

 

[EBottema]

Yes guys, 435 is a great deal but I was told I was getting brand new rims, not ones with small nicks that will end up trapping the dirt. Trust me the pictures do not do justice and they look much worse in person. If a tire shop ever ruined a rim worse than that they would be buying me a new one. The should have been packaged better and the seller should atleast wanted to work with me. I called a wheel place today and they said it would be approx 50 dollars to repair each wheel. 200 bucks. Sad part is I even told the seller if he is able to get fedex to pay a claim on the wheels of 435, i would split it with him b/c he spent time on it and i dont expect to get free rims since they are still usable. Again, he doesnt want that. I have done many deals on ebay and never had such a terrible time. I've even shipping 2 brand new powersteering pumps in the mail, one got broke, other was fine. I gave the buyer a 100% refund and UPS gave me 25 extra for my time. He was happy, i was happy, the way it should be. My card has already been credited but I'm worried that the seller will lie and paypal will contest it and i will have no recourse. I've never had to chargeback on a credit card before, Does anyone know how good discover card is with these kind of issues?

Thanks guys, ill keep you updated since the seller siad he would email me tomorrow since he was too busy and tied up after he saw the second set of photos... LOL



Erik

 

[KBennett]

I feel your pain and have been in a similar situation. It cost me about $20 in shipping and I got nothing out of the deal after I sent the stuff back.

My buddy had the same thing happen on a set of cast iron big block Chevy heads(found out they were cracked) and the seller did not pay the return shipping.



I realize you did not get what you paid for but could you get him to knock $50 off the price and call it even?

 

[EBottema]

KB-



I already offered him to give me 150 since that is roughly what it would cost to repair the wheels and call it even then he can file the claim with Fedex and keep the whole 435 for himself... If someone did that to me, I would accept it since in the end you would be making an extra couple hundred dollars. Guess he is just stubborn.



Today is weds, lets see if i get an email from him

 

[cap-n-cray]

I had a similar thing happen to me with an Ebay sale. It's a long story but basically I bid on a new rear black bumper for my truck from a guy in Colorado. He must have bought out some dealer's NOS stock. The first bumper was damaged but not in shipping. He sent out a call tag with UPS to pickup the damaged bumper and sent me another bumper. The second bumper was damage in shipping and he file a UPS claim. UPS came and looked at the bumper and agreed that they damaged the bumper.



The bumper was insured with UPS for $400. 00. The seller being the shipper and insured got the money. I had an estimate to repair the bumper and powder paint it black for $150. 00. The seller refused to give me the $150. 00 to repair the bumper or ship me a new one. He told me to ship the bumper back and he would refund my money. My cost for the bumper including shipping was $245. 00. He had $400. 00 plus my $245. 00 and I had a damaged bumper.



If I sent him back the bumper I would get my money back but would paid for shipping the bumper back. Bottom line leaves me with no bumper and shipping cost. All I real wanted was a black rear bumper. I would have sold my chrome bumper for about the same price and my cost would have been nothing.



What to do? I canceled my credit card (I did not use PayPal) and got my $245. 00 back. I sent him a certified letter saying that he had abandoned the bumper and I would throw his property away if it was not removed from my property in 30 days. He had UPS pick up the bumper (They took it unwrapped in a busted up box).



Bottom line: The seller got the damaged bumper back but did pay for shipping several times, but also made more money from the UPS insurance, $400. 00. I finally did get my bumper powder painted black for $75. 00, but it really P***** me off. :{



He did not leave any Ebay feed back and I didn't either. Didn't want to just P*** in the wind. I did lose some sleep over it. Some day I may look him up. :-laf



It may be better to use a call tag from UPS to ship stuff. It only cost $5. 00 and you pay the exact shipping cost and are the insured. You get the insurance claim money if there is damaged.



Cary



PS. Watch PayPal, they don't like it when you cancel credit cards. They may come after you through your checking account.

 

[EBottema]

Well, here is an update.....



Over the phone, the seller seemed like he wanted me to pay him 235 for the damaged goods and he would get the rest from fedex. I agreed in a later email to that and asked how he wanted the payment sent. I hear nothing from him and then the other day, Without notice, I recieved a certified letter from the superior court with the details of the small claims suit.

The guy is suing me for the return of the wheels and the court costs ($25). He is coming all the way from Arizona and he has to eat that in court since travel costs are not recoverable in small claims court. This morning I wake up to a second copy of the summons delievered by a sheriff. Geez this guy is funny. I have all emails and all the info from fedex saying he packaged incorrectly and all the run around in the beginning. I have a feeeling I will win. Anyone have any good tips for court? Should I bring the rims as evidence to show they were poorly packaged? I was thinking of a countersuit based on breech of contract since the rims were not in as advertised condition when I got them...



erik

 

[Bertram65]

How did you leave it with him after you got the wheels? Obviously you have the wheels. what amount of the price have you paid?

 

[EBottema]

After i got the wheels I told him I wanted to either return them for a refund or we could file a shipping damage claim and he could give me the check so I could use it to have the rims repaired. He said no that any damage claim belongs to him basically. I right now have a pre-decision to get my money back from the credit card (not final for 90 days, and it has not been 90 days yet) and i do have the wheels in my posession. I tried numerous times to give the seller a fair amount for the rims and let him get the rest from the shipping company. total amount was 435 shipped, i offered 235 for the damaged product as I would use the money saved to have them repaired... He wanted nothing to do with that. Plus he still has an outstanding claim so in the end he wanted the wheels and the shipping claim award... And i would be out huge amounts of time and some gas money for a few trips to the shipping depot for the inspection...

 

[Bob Wagner]

In small claims the more the ammo the better your chances, just be honest

 

[J Shocik]

From EBottema:

I was thinking of a countersuit based on breech of contract since the rims were not in as advertised condition when I got them...

DO IT!! Just document everything and bring all documents with you to court, including all e-mails if possible. the jerk is sucessfully making your life miserable, return the favor. Make him pay... Just think, you might win if you're telling the whole truth and he lies even a little. Judges HATE being lied to, it insults their intelligence. Just my opinion... John

 

[nps]

Unfortunately I have too much experience in small claims court Was the GM at a company that received and initiated alot of actions.



Definately file a counterclaim. Check your local county clerk's website or office for rules and timeframe for filing/serving the counter, and also rules and/or guidelines that they have for your day in court.



Be organized. Make 2 copies + original (you keep originals and one copy for judge, one for the dirtbag). Put the documents into a presentation format, and buy a cheap binder (at least for the judge's copy). Approach it like it's your high school term paper! Divide the presentation into claim and counterclaim. Highlite key points. Number each page. Type up a cover page summary describing the timeline, your efforts at resolution, and each piece of supporting evidence you are presenting. Emphasize the deal you thought you had. You will blow away the judge.



Also contact your credit card company and get an exact status on the chargeback. Let them know what is going on. My guess is that if nothing has happened yet then Paypal is accepting the chargeback. The seller has no say in defending it - that's Paypal's call.



BTW did you "verify" your Paypal account with your bank account? Like cap-n-cray said, if you read the fine print when you agreed to their service, you allowed them free access to take your money. This is why I never verified my account, and also refuse to sell anything on ebay either. I'd talk to your bank and close that account, or at least open an new one, keep both open, and move your funds out of the account Paypal has access to .



Take the rims to court with you (in case the judge orders them returned). Leave all but the one with the most damage in your truck and take the worst one into court. Have pictures of all the rims/packaging etc. in your presentation package.



Good luck.