Opinions on Buybacks

[Ozymandias]

Holy moly, better buy an annual ticket for public transport..

 

[snadamo]

There seems to be more cons than pros. For me, I don't want someone else's issue; undisclosed or otherwise. I am looking to buy and perform the regular maintenance, wear and tear repairs, and pray there's nothing major to fix. The juice doesn't appear to be worth the squeeze here. I didn't even take into consideration the insurance piece. I don't have USAA but I bet my insurer wouldn't insure a Buyback.

This is some excellent feedback, gents!

 

[R.Taylor]

I lemoned a $130k 2016 Mercedes S550... It developed a rough idle at 22k and the dealership could not figure it out for the life of them nor did MB want to really dig in and open her up.... 67 days total in service and it went bye-bye. I got back every penny and they did not nail me for the mileage.

I had a 2019 Ford F250 that had a vibration in the front end from day one... It spent 34 days total in service and when I called Ford customer service they opened a case and 3 weeks later they "repurchased" it and I was refunded in full. The Ford was crap but they really tried to sort it out with a new front axle, wheels and tires, driveshaft and other bits. I had that truck in my physical possession for only 8 days and put only 346 miles on it.


I would never touch a repurchased or lemoned vehicle as I might find myself fighting the same thing the first owner did. At least living here in California has one benefit..... We have super lemon laws that are all in the consumers favor.

 

[SnoKing]

I lemoned a $130k 2016 Mercedes S550... It developed a rough idle at 22k and the dealership could not figure it out for the life of them nor did MB want to really dig in and open her up.... 67 days total in service and it went bye-bye. I got back every penny and they did not nail me for the mileage.

I had a 2019 Ford F250 that had a vibration in the front end from day one... It spent 34 days total in service and when I called Ford customer service they opened a case and 3 weeks later they "repurchased" it and I was refunded in full. The Ford was crap but they really tried to sort it out with a new front axle, wheels and tires, driveshaft and other bits. I had that truck in my physical possession for only 8 days and put only 346 miles on it.


I would never touch a repurchased or lemoned vehicle as I might find myself fighting the same thing the first owner did. At least living here in California has one benefit..... We have super lemon laws that are all in the consumers favor.

Imagine that Consumer Protections: Is now endangered species!

 

[Tuesdak]

The odds of you getting three lemons are so far out there. Something isn't right here. There is some new case law that the number of lemons a consumer has is admissable as evidence in the lawsuit. Mercedes has a very good AI program to identify serial lemon customers because they have been taken advantage of.

No, actually I would call that normal odds. Say you owned any GM IDI diesel esp one with a PMD that burned out on the way home new from the dealer, a Duramax LLY overheater, a Ford 6.0 diesel, and got a "ZERO" Ecodiesel ... Nevermind the other gasoline engine oil sludge messes or other engine disasters out there. Electrical that can't be fixed and you should know how poorly it pays as a dealer tech to hunt down an intermittent connection or short. Just costs you time. Not saying people can't take advantage of it, but, it isn't easy for real lemons.

The vehicle, 2007 Trailblazer Super Sport, I went through the Lemon Law process on I took the money and dumped it with less than 20K on the odometer due to GM's looming bankruptcy without a Lemon brand. The Lemon Law reason would have been 3x rear end rebuilds, including from posi clutch pack failure, without fixing the 45 MPH howl. GM was ignoring the posi clutch pack manufacturer's "Don't Use Synthetic oil because the clutch packs will fail" for their 100K service interval mandate that used synthetic in everything. It took GM three oil spec revisions over a few years to "F get with the program."

Other problems the Shop Queen had would have been visible in the repair history. Bluntly Low Miles on a lemon can be from taking another vehicle because you want to get there on time without being towed, again. Nevermind "free" miles on the hook or sitting in the shop. Half the miles on my lemon was from driving home from the dealer's service department.

I paid the dealer to replace an ignition switch even though it was under warranty on it due to random SES, ABS, Airbag, lights and stuff like the AC randomly not working. Dealer could never find the problem as it was literally NPF. What a GD waste of our (my and dealers) time going to the dealer and that was why I paid them to fix the problem when I tracked it down myself. I popped open the switch in the service manager's office and showed them the burnt contacts on the Acc contact set that would randomly brown out the ECM's going ACC, Run, Start, Run. GM cut me a check for the repair. Later GM's arrogance, like any OEM's, claimed I insulted the dealer by paying them to do it because they couldn't find the problem and thus dared me to take the lemon case to court. It's a known common repair now due to a bad design unrelated to the massive GM ignition switch recalls for turning off (run to accessory) by themselves.

Dex 6 trans fluid sucks as the trans in it burned up.

It would liquid slug the compressor and randomly break the AC belt: GM redesigned the AC belt drive on later models to use a elastic belt and no tensioner.

The massive hot air return path over the top of the radiator heat blasted the condenser resulting in poor AC performance at idle. Design defect dealers can't fix.

The vehicles were later recalled due to power window switch wiring burning them down. GM wasn't kidding with "We got the real Blazer!" in the TrailBlazer name...

 

[TFucili]

From the mid-80s to 02 I had an incredible streak of garbage from multiple brands. Came within a whisker of Lemon Law on a 95 Tahoe, until a customer who worked for GM interceded, and successfully Lemoned an 04 Chevy with a posessed Allison. In that stretch we did manage to buy a 90 Volvo that served us well for 16 years. You can bet your boots it is possible to have multiple lemons.

 

[sag2]

I guess I just have incredible good luck. I have driven literally hundreds of new vehicles during my 36 years working and only one, a 1979 Dodge 150 left me stranded, in Bend OR. with a bad fuel pump. The majority never went in the dealer for a repair, only oil changes.
The 2014 1500 was in the dealer for two days for lifters on one bank in 50k miles. The 2018 has 21k and has never been into the dealer for any repairs.

 

[AH64ID]

So talk yourself out of it or gamble and learn the hard way only without ANY benefit of Lemon Law, because it's used.

I understood lemon law to cover anything with a factory warranty, used or new.

 

[nukegm]

I understood lemon law to cover anything with a factory warranty, used or new.

comrade - in colorado, lemons only apply to new vehicles. used is at your own risk....
cheers!

 

[AH64ID]

comrade - in colorado, lemons only apply to new vehicles. used is at your own risk....
cheers!

However it’s a federal law, not a state one.

 

[nukegm]

However it’s a federal law, not a state one.

not exactly, is my understanding. from colorado dmv : Luckily, state governments, with a bit of federal backing, have enacted consumer protection laws (lemon laws) assisting buyers in retrieving new replacement vehicles, or a return of money for flawed vehicles meeting certain conditions. cheers comrade!

 

[AH64ID]

I understand that it’s part of the Magnuson-Moss Act which is indeed federal. Certain states may have their own laws that deal with lemons, but that should be above and beyond the MMA.

 

[Ozymandias]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Nukegm is right, Lemon is State, Moss is Federal.

 

[AH64ID]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Nukegm is right, Lemon is State, Moss is Federal.

So it looks like each state has a supplemental lemon law, primarily for new vehicles.

It mentions how some states cover used. It doesn’t go into any details about specific state laws, but there is a federal section on the lemon law page that discusses and links to the Magnuson-Moss Act page ... aka the Federal “Lemon” Law.

I looked into Idaho’s “lemon“ law and it does not exclude used vehicles, just stipulates that it must be within 24,000 miles and 24 months of delivery. Used would be covered under that, thou it’s more restrictive than the factory warranty period that MMA covers.

As long as there is some sort of warranty the MMA will apply to used vehicles too.. thou it may be harder to use than a state law.

So I guess it’s worth research if you buy used. I don’t realize how different the state and federal portions were and always thought MMA was the main lemon law. Learn something new.

 

[seahawkdodge]

The Magnuson-Moss act really doesn't specify what actions are to be taken, it basically just says manufacturers will repair vehicles in a timely manner, while under warranty. It outlines what a warranty should cover etc. It defines a limited warranty, an explicit warranty etc. It leaves a lot of grey area.
State lemon and warranty laws are where anyone should start, and are much more likely to result in positive results.

A lot of state's and manufacturers like to point people towards arbitration, but I would strongly caution against any arbitration. It is simply a waste of time. Even if you do manage to get a positive result from arbitration, it WILL be for a lower judgement amount than any state lemon law. The BBB arbitration standards penalize the consumer for mileage at a much higher rate than any of the consumer lemon laws.

My experience with arbitration (in Kalifonistan) is that no matter how prepared you are, no matter how much evidence you have, no matter how many different ways you qualify for lemon law, the arbitration judge will not rule in your favor.

My Dakota was out of service for 47 days, had four broken cab mounts on three separate occasions, plus other issues, and the judge ruled in favor of Daimler Chrysler. I repeatedly had to correct the DC lawyer's "facts", and argue in fact that lemon law states 30 days, not 30 business days. I also had to argue with him that yes, in fact, not having the cab held on to the frame was a safety issue. None of it mattered. I wasted three months going to arbitration, with a vehicle I refused to drive sitting in the driveway. The judge never stated why he ruled in favor of the manufacturer, but the lawyer laughed the whole way out of the meeting room.

 

[TFucili]

I guess I just have incredible good luck. I have driven literally hundreds of new vehicles during my 36 years working and only one, a 1979 Dodge 150 left me stranded, in Bend OR. with a bad fuel pump. The majority never went in the dealer for a repair, only oil changes.
The 2014 1500 was in the dealer for two days for lifters on one bank in 50k miles. The 2018 has 21k and has never been into the dealer for any repairs.

Yes, you have incredible good luck

 

[Ram4Sam]

The Magnuson-Moss act really doesn't specify what actions are to be taken, it basically just says manufacturers will repair vehicles in a timely manner, while under warranty. It outlines what a warranty should cover etc. It defines a limited warranty, an explicit warranty etc. It leaves a lot of grey area.
State lemon and warranty laws are where anyone should start, and are much more likely to result in positive results.

A lot of state's and manufacturers like to point people towards arbitration, but I would strongly caution against any arbitration. It is simply a waste of time. Even if you do manage to get a positive result from arbitration, it WILL be for a lower judgement amount than any state lemon law. The BBB arbitration standards penalize the consumer for mileage at a much higher rate than any of the consumer lemon laws.

My experience with arbitration (in Kalifonistan) is that no matter how prepared you are, no matter how much evidence you have, no matter how many different ways you qualify for lemon law, the arbitration judge will not rule in your favor.

My Dakota was out of service for 47 days, had four broken cab mounts on three separate occasions, plus other issues, and the judge ruled in favor of Daimler Chrysler. I repeatedly had to correct the DC lawyer's "facts", and argue in fact that lemon law states 30 days, not 30 business days. I also had to argue with him that yes, in fact, not having the cab held on to the frame was a safety issue. None of it mattered. I wasted three months going to arbitration, with a vehicle I refused to drive sitting in the driveway. The judge never stated why he ruled in favor of the manufacturer, but the lawyer laughed the whole way out of the meeting room.

In contrast....my arbitration case went in a completely different direction.....it could not have been any easier, any quicker, or had a better outcome.
I received an identical truck, two model years newer, and was not responsible for any taxes, depreciation, etc. It cost me around $300 for miles driven and an extra $300 for an option I added to the order sheet for my new truck, which I got to keep and drive until my ordered replacement truck was delivered.
There were no lawyers involved, just me, a stack of repair orders from the dealer, and the arbitrator on a conference call with FCA in Michigan. The actual problem with the truck was a non issue at the hearing, all that mattered was I satisfied(and them some) all the requirements for the Ca lemon laws. It probably didn't hurt my case that the FCA rep on the call lied to the arbitrator about several issues that were easily disproven by the repair orders in the hands of the arbitrator.

Sam

 

[seahawkdodge]

Sam, that sounds much better than my miserable experience.
I went through mine in 2001-2002. I fought with DC for six months total, after passing all lemon law requirements. The worst part is that I called the lemon law lawyer from the Sacramento Courthouse, after walking out of arbitration. I had check in hand about a week and a half after hiring the lawyer.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Sam, that sounds much better than my miserable experience.
I went through mine in 2001-2002. I fought with DC for six months total, after passing all lemon law requirements. The worst part is that I called the lemon law lawyer from the Sacramento Courthouse, after walking out of arbitration. I had check in hand about a week and a half after hiring the lawyer.

Mine was the summer of 2015....as well as it turned out, don't really want to go through it again, I'm sure there was some dumb luck involved........But I did have a run of luck then, six months later the VW TDI debacle went down and I had a Jetta TDI. That one I would do again, put a good chunk of change in my pocket with that buyback....

Sam

 

[seahawkdodge]

I would rather not be going through any of them, but I refuse to just take it in the shorts from a manufacturer.
My wife had a 2017 Volvo that was four days short of lemon law, right before the Sienna. We ended up expecting another child, so she didn't want to wait for another breakdown for lemon law. I wanted to wait, since we had the vehicle for 8 months and we lost big time on the trade in.
The Sienna has been terrible from day one. The third row seats are the biggest issues, but there are a lot of little things it has been back for multiple times. Seals, trim falling off, the transmission doing strange things... Even beyond the problems, neither of us like the vehicle. The seats are uncomfortable and the Sienna really isn't set up well for our family. Toyota has been absolutely zero help, so I went with a lawyer. Now no Toyota dealership will service it. They can have it back and hand me my money.

My Ram 1500 Ecodiesel was great right up until 18K miles. It lost power while towing twice, almost causing accidents. The cruise control activated itself in traffic, almost causing an accident. The fender flares peeled, but then the body shop did a really ****ty job painting them. There are gouges along the edges and orange peel.
It has been in the shop awaiting a new EGR cooler since November 5th. FCA can have it back, I really don't want it. Nor do I want another Ecodiesel.