Overweight Truck Campers

[DocStressor]

I just weighed my 3/4 ton (see sig) with my EMPTY Lance 820 camper for the first time. I've had it on the scales before and seen some pretty terrifying numbers but it was always loaded with all kinds of gear. So I could never be certain that the overweight condition wasn't my own fault. Here’s the CAT scales weights with NO WATER, only 1 full tank of propane, a full tank of fuel, and my 180 lb a**:



Steer Axle - 4260 lb



Drive Axle - 5600



GVW- 9860



This is 1060 lb over the rated GVW of 8800 lb for the extended cab, short bed 4 X 4 2500. The truck handles the load just fine after my suspension mods. The Lance dealer recommended a 2500 for the camper and actually worked with Carson Dodge to set up the rig. So my question is the following: Can a camper dealer be held liable in the even of an accident that can be attributed to an overloaded condition? How about a weigh citation? They all push heavy campers for 3/4 ton trucks. Yet they must know they are telling the customers to break the law. Has anyone ever heard of a dealer being challenged?

 

[D6Diesel]

Lee,

The dealers just want to sell... The responsibility of weight and overloaded condition likley rests with the driver. You've done the right thing and weighed it. May be time to move up to the one ton truck. The article in TDR magazine 6 months ago by (?) Jim Anderson is a must read. It has the curb weights and GAWR for 2001 trucks. One thing that impressed me was the weight of the motor such that the front axle can only tolerate between 600 and 900 lbs. For those of us wanting to tow 9,000 lbs TT's, we may want to place the tongue weight all on the hitch and not distribute any weight forward?

 

[Tom G]

Camper Weights

Hi All:



I went though this exact same thing when I purchased my new truck in 2001. This is a long story but I will try and make it short.



I purchased a new 2001 3/4 ton QC, 8' bed towing and camper package thinking of hauling a 8 1/2 - 9' campter. Got the new truck home and started reading over all the books and documents included in glove box.



After the fact learned that the truck was only rated to carry a 1450# camper. Oh sure the bed of the turck was rated for about 2200 lbs as I remember. I went back to the dealer and said what is this bul..... They got on the phone with D/Chrysler and sure enough about 1450 was the max. As you know there are very few 1400 lb campers out there. In fact we couldn't find anything we liked.



When you purchased the truck there should have been an 8 1/2 X 11 document (red printing) in the glove box entitled "CONSUMER INFORMATION TRUCK-CAMPER LOADING". It is specific to your truck and includes vin. number, balancing data and cargo weights. While doing some research I leaned that a 2500, QC, 4X4's was only rated to carry something like a

960 lbs camper.



By the way I went to the local Ford dealer and the Ford trucks are designed to carry about the same weight. After some research and several HARD conversations with the local dealership and Chrysler they they took back my 3/4 ton and sold me a 1 ton dually which is rated to carry a 2772 lbs camper SAFELY.



Now here is where the SAFELY issue comes in. It appears to me that the DOT and D/Chrysler and FORD (maybe Chevy to but I never checked their trucks) do not want the liability of individuals carrying campers. Due to the longer QC frames, height of 4X4's from the ground, weight of campers and etc. it's almost impossible to be withing the LAW unless your running a dually AND only then with about a 9' camper. I would almost bet every 3/4 ton Dodge, Ford and Chevy out there is running over the limits.



So as my story goes - I got a super deal on a 1 ton dually from D/Chrysler and the local dealer and love it. The local dealer now has a policy that every customer get's asked WHAT they will be using the truck for and if they intend on hauling a camper. If for camper service they show the Consumer Information Truck-Camper Loading sheet to the customer before they buy.



Tom G.

Lake Havasu City, AZ.

 

[TowPro]

Re: Camper Weights

on the 98's it says "ask the dealer for a copy of this if you want it"

Originally posted by Tom G

Hi All:





When you purchased the truck there should have been an 8 1/2 X 11 document (red printing) in the glove box entitled "CONSUMER INFORMATION TRUCK-CAMPER LOADING". It is specific to your truck and includes vin. number, balancing data and cargo weights. While doing some research I leaned that a 2500, QC, 4X4's was only rated to carry something like a

960 lbs camper.





Tom G.

Lake Havasu City, AZ.

 

[Crazy Horse]

02-16-2002 10:45 PM

Lee Weber Wrote:

"I run an 8. 2 ft Lance 820 on a short 2500 with the extended cab. Check my mods. It handles fine with the mods I have listed in my sig. The camper weighs 2800 lb dry and I won't list my actual working weight. Lets just say it's a bit over 8800. In my opinion, the airbags, adjustable Ranchos, and stabilizers are all necessary for a safe ride. "







Lee -I tried to advise you earlier this year. Read the above quote. And... Read Threads And the 820 is 8' 11" not 8. 2ft.



Read my post for "Real Weight-Unloaded Truck" = Fuzzy Math.

 

[DocStressor]

Phil -- I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here. I just wanted to post some real data on an unloaded camper and to learn if anyone had ever had a problem with an insurance claim or over weight ticket. Obviously, I worry about this a lot. I just had to haul a bunch of lab equipment up to Montana in the camper and was REALLY overweight. That just got me to thinking.



And BTW, the tag on my '99 820 says 8'10", not 8'11".



Lee

 

[rfielding]

Wow... you all have me thinking... I just recently [May] traded in my 28' Travel trailer for a spanking new Lance 821... the largest camper that "will fit a short bed 3/4 ton" per the dealer. The owners manual and sticker in the camper weigh it in at approximately 3200# with the options included... before our family's "junk".



Since getting the camper... I have upgraded the wheels and tires to a larger size [285/75/16 BFG's], added a leaf to the rear suspension with a 1" block spacer to raise the rear 2", added a coil spacer to the front for another 2" to keep the tires from rubbing, upgraded to Rancho 9000 RS shocks all the way around, and went with airbags in the rear as well.



I tow a 21' ski boat, hence the reason for trading the trailer... My Lance dealer "swore" that this combination was "safe and not a problem". I called the Dodge dealer prior and they offered little to no help at all...



So far, besides the unanticipated upgrades that I made, the truck runs great and feels pretty solid when loaded... and towing in combination.



Am I going to regret this in the long run... Am I safe or am I actually setting myself up for a big failure...



I sure hope I was given sound advice as I am not in a position to change much more... the "money tree" is out!. . That Lance really set me back, but again, was told that this set up was OK... in fact the camper dealer uses all Dodge's to a haul there largest, heaviest campers around...



Any advice??? Thanks in advance.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Lee, I'm not trying to beat a dead horse either. I don't like to see people possibly getting in the position I was with an overloaded truck. I believe ultimately you will be responsible for any thing that occurs as a result of you overloading your truck. That is why the manufacturers put a piece of paper in with your warranty pack telling you what you can put in the bed as far as camper weight. I just talked to my insurance man (a personal friend of mine) and he said the insurance company would back you up in the case of an accident but said that you would probably be cancelled after the claim was paid.



And BTW the 2002 Lance 820 has a floor length of 8' 11". You must have a typo in your earlier post; you said "8. 2ft".





rfielding - Keep an assured clear distance between you and the person in front of you. Your brakes may be the weak point in stopping that load going down the road.

 

[Crazy Horse]

rfielding



Out of curriosity who came up with this line; "... the largest camper that "will fit a short bed 3/4 ton" per the dealer. '???



Was this "largest camper" suggested by the Dodge Dealer, or the Lance Dealer?

 

[RobG]

These campers weigh way more than anybody thinks. I weighed my 2000 Lance 1030 not long ago and, with a full tank of water, one full propane tank, and full of my usual stuff, it's 4400 lbs. That puts my truck 1200 lbs over the GVWR, AND IT'S A DUALLY.



I've concluded that when it's time for a bigger camper, it'll be time for a bigger truck... like an F450.



I sure hope DC gets a medium duty truck out soon, and I also hope it has a bigger crew cab than the 3rd gen RAMs, because otherwise I'll be defecting.



Rob

 

[Blakers]

Just because you exceed the 8800 GVW limit, does that mean you are breaking the law?



I know some states sell their plates on the amount of weight you want to haul, but that is mostly for commercial trucks and a way to make a buck for the state.



I now live in Pa and have my truck licensed for 8800 lbs, but when I lived in Ohio I had it licensed for 14,000 lbs (for a heck of a lot less money BTW). I even had 14,000 lb plates on my half ton Ford to avoid emissions tests.



I'm sure Ohio would not bother you with a 3/4 ton truck loaded over 8800 with a camper, no matter what commericial or non-commercial plates it had.



Blake

 

[Dieselnerd]

Blakers, I don't believe you are breaking the law as far as the DOT is concerned as long as you are not exceeding your axle or tire capacity. That being said, I understand Canada goes by GVW ratings and not axle ratings like our DOT. Different states may also have different ideas. You do take a slight risk running overloaded but having upgraded brakes and suspension as well as driving safely will normally keep you out of trouble. I am also guilty of driving overloaded with my Lance on a 3/4 ton truck. I have also driven all over Canada with it and have never been stopped.

 

[dresslered]

I'm sure wondering what truck my Canadian made Bigfoot was ever intended to be strapped to?

 

[E7mack96]

overloaded

While you guys may feel you aren't breaking the law, You are in violation of your insurance policies. If, for example, you are over by 1,000 lbs. and you rear end someone and kill a little kid in the back of a minivan, you can bet that you will be in big trouble. your insurance carrier will probably deny the claim as most policies exclude improperly and/or overloaded conditions. If they in fact back you up, you can bet that the settlement will be greater due to the fact that you could have possibly avoided the accident(or at least a fatality) if you were lighter.



Just to cover your proverbial butt, carry the most liability you can afford ( at least 300K preferably 1 million )



I know of a varmant that lives in KY and caused a very serious accident. The state minimum was only 10K and that is all he had. Not even a drop in the bucket. you cannot even replace a compact car for that now, much less begin to compensate for loss of life. He also had no assets to attach.



Martin Marietta was sued for letting a dump truck (not mine) out of the pit overweight that killed someone. They lost. Now, Martin Marietta will not let you out even 20 lbs. over the federal weight limits for your truck.



This also applies to pickups too.



Sorry for long post. Been driving for 36 of last 48 hrs. am tired.

 

[DocStressor]

Yeah, I've wondered about Bigfoot also. They are at least as heavy as the big Lances. The mounties are pretty good at ignoring campers. I've been waved by several times at "surprise" weight checks in BC. I can tell you, I was sweating each time. One guy told me that they might weigh a 1/2 ton hauling a camper that doesn't look safe, but otherwise they don't bother campers.



I guess all that we can do is try to make the rigs as safe as possible with airbags, Ranchos, etc. The Earthroamer article in the TDR makes the point that 2500s are really 1-tons except for the duallies. The tires would then seem to be the limiting factor. We could upgrade the brakes, especially on older trucks. But doing that right is really expensive. Otherwise:



1. Carry no more gear than necessary.

2. Dump before getting on the road.

3. Keep the rear brakes adjusted.

4. Keep your speed not much over 60 mph. Overloaded tires run hot which can lead to failure.

5. Upgrade the tires if you can.

6. Talk to an attorney about class action suits.

 

[dresslered]

My Bigfoot posts a plaque on the back with the "official" reading of 2871-lbs. when carrying standard equipment! Haah! I'm sure that this is without the double-pane glass, polyurathane filled walls, and other little items like the interior.



I hear you D6Diesel, and try to carry the least amount of weight possible. I have plenty of margin on the tires (6) and some room on the axles, but that GVWR sticker is a pain in the A$$!

 

[IdaH.O.Train]

I think everyone is worrying way too much about the trucks sticker GVW. Not to mention those who insist on bringing up the what ifs. What if you rear-end a large family of immigrants? What if your truck blows up because it has too much weight on it? What if you drive the same way whether loaded or not? Here is the bottom line, regardless of what the posted GVW is of a vehicle, you should always be driving safe enough for the road conditions. You should always have enough room to stop or an out to go to in an emergency. This is basic Driver's Ed. 101. You can do just as much damage with a vehicle within specs as you can with one out of specs.



As far as liability, if I rearend someone with my empty truck because I didn't allow enough space to stop, or I wasn't paying attention, I can be held just as liable. Check with your individual state for their laws.



Think about it, why would D/C put the most stout axles available in a pickup truck on their trucks, capable of carrying tons of weight, and outfit them with E rated tires, also capable of carrying tons of weight, if the trucks themselves were not capable of carrying that same weight?



By the way, I have talked to various CHP Officers regarding this subject and they have assured me that as long as you stay within the limits of axles and tires, that's what they go by. Furthermore, they said they had never heard of nor personally weighed a personal vehicle involved in an accident to see if they were outside the mfgs. posted GVW.

 

[sheldon]

My 02 SLT 2wd standard cab weighed in at 6000 lb even. I am looking at installing a Summerwind 811 with slideout on it. This will weigh out at approximently 2500 lb wet without any gear. By the time I add the the gear and myself I will be a little over 9000 lb. I will be adding airbags to be safe. Not bad considering what I have read here. It seems the big problem to the weight limit is the Quadcab and the 4wd, two items I specifically avoided. Since the camper will be off most of the time I wanted the 3/4 ton instead of the 1 ton for normal driving livability.



My other truck is a 82 Chevy 1/2 ton with a 6. 2 diesel. I carried a 86 Lance 2000 8. 3 camper on it for many years traveling most of the western states and Canada. I had 2500 lb overload springs on the truck which seemed the handle the camper just fine. Most of the time it was at 7500 lb, 1500 lb over the GVW of the truck. I never had an failure caused by overweight and was flagged on through any scales that did check me.



The most important item for me is making sure the tires can handle the weight and checking them often. Being an old trucker I know blowouts can be very dangerous.

 

[rfielding]

Sheldon... Sounds like good advice... thanks all for the input...



Sheldon, we'll have to compare notes later... I also live in Manteca... small world... .

 

[sheldon]

rfielding - I will have the Woodie at the car show at Perko's at Union and Yosemite on Friday. Hope to meet you there.....