PDR cam w/ DD3 injector install results

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Jim - If I don't sell my BDDL, I will try it at the upcoming Bully Dog Dog Days dyno event July 9 and then post the graphs. I figure I'll probably try the performance (90 HP) setting only with VA 0% or 100% just to be somewhat mild on the injection timing, pressure, and duration contribution.

Thanks, I'll be looking forward to the results.



Jim

 

[Matt400]

Matt - Did you find anything out on the cam for the SO? Or if there were different part #'s over the 3rd gen years?

No, all they said for now was that the cam was not yet available for the public and would be 2 more weeks.



I emailed DriverNo8 that has a Scheid cam in his CA SO truck and he is happy with his but couldn't comment on the specs.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Tommeygun,



Ck out MCS Midwest Performance Diesel in Eureka. He's doing all of Ray Gullet's wrenching and installed his new cam and did Ray's complete recent rebuild. Ask for Keith at 636-938-1118. Keith is a great mechanic and Ray's recent sled pulling results demonstrates his effectiveness.

 

[Tomeygun]

Tonmeygun,



CK out MCS Midwest Performance Diesel in Eureka. He's doing all of Ray Gullet's wrenching and installed his new cam and did Ray's complete recent rebuild. Ask for Keith at 636-938-1118. Keith is a great mechanic and Ray's recent sled pulling results demonstrates the effectiveness.

I actually know keith from a few events, I was not aware of his ability on the harder stuff (cams, etc) - I might have to stop by and check him out



Certainly would be nice to have a mechanic you can trust that is close

(No techs here at my shop that would even consider touching a 3rd gen cam)

 

[Matt400]

I was just looking over the cam install outline in the OEM manual and it looks pretty straight forward. They say to remove the condenser but I think it will rotate out of the way without discharging the system.



Some key items are:

• Good time to change injectors with the rockers off
  
• Will need a good jack to lift the engine some
  
• Will need Miller tool #8502
  

They say all you use is the dowels out of the miller kit, I think it would be slick if PDR would sell just a dowel kit vs having to buy the Miller tool. I havent located that tool kit yet so I don't know whats in it or what it costs. . are you reading Brandon??



At first it looks like a simple upgrade but what an ideal time to do injectors and then it gets spendy

 

[Diesel Nut]

Some one knows and isn't telling!

 

[rbattelle]

What is the Miller #8502 used for?



-Ryan

 

[Tomeygun]

At first it looks like a simple upgrade but what an ideal time to do injectors and then it gets spendy

I love that about bombing... New turbo? Good time to get exhaust -- New cam, good time for injectors... i'm sold



New tires? May as well get N20, twins, DD clutch, Kelderman air-ride, fire-ring head with porting, ohh, and stacks... :-laf

 

[Matt400]

What is the Miller #8502 used for?

There are dowels in the kit that allow you to latch onto each of the lifters and pull them up enough for cam replacement.

Since the lifters wont come out through the top you just raise them and then secure the dowel in the "up" position with a rubber band.

 

[Matt400]

I love that about bombing... New turbo? Good time to get exhaust -- New cam, good time for injectors... i'm sold

True, you have to admit it would be hard with all that hardware out of the way to stare at the OEM injectors and say. . naw I will just leave those in there.



It would be like pulling a transmission to fix something else and not upgrade the clutch or TC.

 

[JStieger]

At first it looks like a simple upgrade but what an ideal time to do injectors and then it gets spendy

That's exactly what I thought when I first approached this project!



I didn't have access to a good, clean shop with the specialized tools and I didn't want to mess with the injector tips and associated inspection on the close-tolerance CR injectors so that's why I had Dyno-Mite do the job. Another factor was that they also have a dyno in the shop so before and after (even in-between) dynos are the norm for tuning purposes to verify what you're getting before you even leave the shop. So definitely if you're comfortable with doing the work then you do save some coin (probably ~33% of the total cost before tax).



About injectors: they did warn me ahead of time that the price could go up based on previous swaps they did on other 3rd gens that ran Ramifiers or early Edge EZ on the "secret settings" (i. e. , really high pressures) that had some damaged injectors. Fortunately, I lucked out and my stock injectors were in excellent shape. Lenny did give me a crash course on injectors from 1st to 3rd gens, but I think I only retained about 25% of the info; there are just so many little things to look out for. Would I have known what to look out for? No, definitely not! I mean, experience is #1, cleanliness is #2, having a good magnifying glass/microscope is #3, injector flow tester, etc. If I did the swap myself and I broke something I would have been FUBARed considering my truck is my only transportation for work, etc.



About the cam swap: The condensor does rotate out of the way too; just anchor it temporarily with a zip-tie. I don't recall that Evan jacked up the motor though. Evan is a member on this site so maybe I'll PM him to chime in here.

 

[Matt400]

Lenny did give me a crash course on injectors from 1st to 3rd gens, but I think I only retained about 25% of the info; there are just so many little things to look out for. Would I have known what to look out for? No, definitely not!

For a DIY job the only way would be to purchase a set up front and then return the OEM's for a core.

The condensor does rotate out of the way too; just anchor it temporarily with a zip-tie.

I thought so, thats cool.

I don't recall that Evan jacked up the motor though.

There is a cross brace sandwiched between the inter-cooler and transmission cooler to clear, doesn't look removable. I believe you pull just the left side motor mount bolt.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

The cross brace in the front does not come out unless you modify it. You can jack up the engine, but that is a lot more work than just cutting the brace out and then rewelding it when everything goes back together. Thats what I did on Julius' truck. After welding, I ground on it a bit to make everything smooth, threw some paint on it, and it was as good as new. Far easier and faster than jacking the engine up. You have to do the same thing on an 89-93 since they too have bracing in the way.

 

[jwilliams3]

IIRC on the newer trucks (04/04. 5) the brace is removable or has a relief for cam removal.

 

[Matt400]

IIRC on the newer trucks (04/04. 5) the brace is removable or has a relief for cam removal.

Good to know, I will have to take a look at one of those and maybe update my brace at the same time so if it were needed again it would be faster.

It must not take much movement because they only have you pull the one through bolt on the left side mount.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

It must not take much movement...

It takes about 1. 5" to gain enough clearance. Chrysler states in the service manual you need to remove all the engine mount bolts, not just the one side. Just don't forget you have exhaust clearnaces to be concerned with, and also the stick shift and transfer case shifters. I'm not sure if you'll be able to upgrade to the new brace or not. I have not actually seen the new brace, but I will take a look at the next 04. 5 that comes in. The brace is installed when they assemble the body, so getting a new one installed in one piece may require major surgery. If I was planning on a lot of cam R&R's in the same truck, I would modify the existing brace with a removable section in the middle, thereby creating clearance for the cam to come out. However, I can't see spending the extra time on that if you're not planning to do a bunch of R&R work on the same rig.

 

[DSpencer]

What would be more expensive, the cam or the cam install?

 

[Tomeygun]

What would be more expensive, the cam or the cam install?

I'm betting they are the same - About $450 for the cam, $450 to install









if I had to guess

 

[Matt400]

Chrysler states in the service manual you need to remove all the engine mount bolts, not just the one side.

True, I went back and re-read that- Pull out engine through bolts Thanks.

It may be possible to do just the one to rotate the needed 1. 5" you say it needs and keep the exhaust side down.



DSpencer- most likely the labor. PDR hasn't listed a price on their cam but I would guess under 500.

 

[Matt400]

I went back and re-read your first post and wanted ask a few things. .

I started researching mechanical upgrades so that I could leave my basic truck electronics alone except for a simple pressure box (VA or EZ).

Is there a reason you wouldn't want to also have timing? Its my understanding the injection event is also retarded same as the cam for emissions.

-improved throttle response off-idle with instant turbo spool up versus the 1 second lag pig of my stock truck or my truck with any electronic boxes.

When you say "stock" are you saying your current turbo spools up faster than your stock turbo did or the HTB2 with or without boxes?



The 2mpg increase you have seen, do you feel is from the cam or injectors?

Probably hard to say without trying one and then the other.

I see both manufactures claim a 1-3 mpg improvement.



Do you feel your combo is good for towing?

Last. . I see that DD has posted this statement on their site:

Injector applications require the use of one of the Edge modules

Why do you suppose that is? Since your running the adjustable VA I would wonder what happens to drivability and mpg's if you were to turn it off?