Competition PDR's Blower on 5.9

[SConklin]

BTW, hey Piers, thanks for the twin photos.

Any other secret projects you've got hiding that you shoulda told me about before getting these twins built? What's the story with the modified intercooler? hint hint...

 

[RacinDuallie]

What's that saying again? oh yeah:









AIR +FUEL= POWER !!!



Oo. I wanna try!! I wanna try!! :-laf

 

[Jetpilot]

As normal Piers to pushing the edge an into new territories, way to go! I have always thought it would be neat to have a blower/supercharger maybe even combined with some type of turbo setup but Piers took it a step farther that just a thought and made it reality.



Many people go to PDR for great items they manufacture and here is another fine example of why that is. Cutting edge products by a great guy! Keep it up Piers!



Doug

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I was just wondering if you could still close the hood with that installed... ?



Cool to see some more innovative ideas out there... ...

 

[moremph]

I think piers is just wanting to start a donut in a higher gear







so how would you plumb this thing, Feed it with a big charger or feed it into a big charger?



Travis

 

[DHRA]

... that's why you don't see 1500hp pulling setups in drag trucks... they might be able to make some exhibition runs, but they take 10 minutes to spool up! LOL!



Forrest

Actually, they spool less than 15 seconds and I've got a best of 9 seconds. But as you say, it's all about doing it different!

 

[RyanB]

Here's a first look at what found it's way on to one of our 5. 9's... 8psi at idle and 25psi with a blip of the throttle.

I could just imagine seeing a huge polished Super Charger sticking out the hood and a set of crome stacks out back!!!!!



I personally think this is an awsome idea for a dedicated racing/pulling truck but with the height of the 6bt already it would just be way to tall for a street truck unless you want a 12" cowl hood!!!!! Oo. :-laf :--) :--) :--)



Ryan

 

[Forrest Nearing]

real hot rods have holes in their hoods...

 

[CRoth - BD-Power]

I agree with Gene, we're back into the stone ages with a supercharger. I vote April's fools joke.



There is no way a supercharger can produce as much power as a properly tuned turbo system. For one the lob style are super inefficent (40%), plus they rob tons of HP. A turbo has no parasitic loss as long as their is positive intake pressure. I would be very suprised if it could generate 25 psi, typcailly they are 10-15psi max. Plus if he is really feeding it with two turbos (in the picture he is not, the teflon seals and thrust washers/bearings wouldn't last.



Really what you should do is have a twin system with a procharger as the secondary turbo driven by a clutch. Once you where up to boost shut off the procharger and route the air around it.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Actually, a ProCharger would be the worst route to take in a combo set up like that.



You'd be back to square one. Lag. A ProCharger (centrifigal) shines in a high rpm application, and for a belt driven supercharger displays a surprising amount of boost lag.



No, Piers has got it right. A Roots type (lobes) is what you want, boost right off idle... .



... but a Lyshom compressor (screws) would rule! Real low rpm boost and cool air being pushed.



Go with a Whipple.

 

[Sled Puller]

I agree with Gene, we're back into the stone ages with a supercharger. .

I just wanted to quote that in case he changed his mind!!

 

[BPonci]

You can run twin turbos with a blower. Thats why they have a blower bypass. 71, 92 and 149s have used them for years.

 

[Tcolesanti]

I agree with Gene, we're back into the stone ages with a supercharger. I vote April's fools joke.



There is no way a supercharger can produce as much power as a properly tuned turbo system. For one the lob style are super inefficent (40%), plus they rob tons of HP. A turbo has no parasitic loss as long as their is positive intake pressure. I would be very suprised if it could generate 25 psi, typcailly they are 10-15psi max. Plus if he is really feeding it with two turbos (in the picture he is not, the teflon seals and thrust washers/bearings wouldn't last.



Really what you should do is have a twin system with a procharger as the secondary turbo driven by a clutch. Once you where up to boost shut off the procharger and route the air around it.

So basically your saying that a roots style blower (14-71 or 16-71) used on Top fuel cars and Funny cars are not efficient.



I understand your statement that there is no way a supercharger can make as much power as a properly tuned twin setup, but how fast can that huffer/turbo setup make it (the power) compared to twin turbos???



I also understand that in no way should these 4 cycle Cummins be compared to the old fashioned 2-cycle Detroits, but in say a 6v92ta, the blower produced the needed boost off idle until the turbo produced more psi than the blower, then a valve opened bypassing the blower allowing the turbo to do its job.



I believe that everything has its place, and this setup does too. For someone looking for instant spoolup, no smoke, and super low EGT's, or the drag racer just simply looking for "0" lag this is it. I don't exactly think it is a step back, but definately "to the right and up". Thank you for your time.

 

[Cummins4Life]

I believe I read in the last TDR rag that Cummins had the first supercharged OTR diesel, even before Detroit. I'd look it up to be sure but my neighbor hasnt returned it yet.



Even if its not that efficient, it would be great for people living above 4000', and anyone wanting to be a little different.

 

[Sled Puller]

So basically your saying that a roots style blower (14-71 or 16-71) used on Top fuel cars and Funny cars are not efficient.



.

That statement is correct.



But sometimes, you are not looking for efficiency, for various reasons.



Does anyone know why Top Fuelers don't use turbos?

 

[pwerwagn]

Well, there is a BAH (blown alcohol hydro) boat using twins instead of a blower, and from what I understand, there is a Top Fueler (boat) on the horizon using twins.

Do any of you guys remember the feller on EBAY that was selling some mysterey sticks, and claiming he had a whipple between his turbo's???

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Boy this thread sure got the crap stirred up... ... ..... good on the guys at PDR, setting the example as always.



Jim

 

[Tcolesanti]

That statement is correct.



But sometimes, you are not looking for efficiency, for various reasons.



Does anyone know why Top Fuelers don't use turbos?

That was my point, at no time should a Roots Blower and a turbocharger(s) be compared against each other as far as efficiency is concerned. However on a top fuel or funny car, Roots blowers seem to work well (and efficiently 25-30psi) for that application, why would it not be right to use a blower/turbo setup on a Cummins to increase spoolup time???

 

[RustyJC]

If one is worried about parasitic drag of the blower, it would be easy enough to rig up a bypass so the turbo(s) feed the engine once they are spooled up and then use an electric clutch on the blower drive (like an A/C clutch) to disconnect the blower. This (i. e. , the drive clutch) was done as far back as the blower Bentleys and the Mercedes 540SSK in the 30's.



Rusty

 

[COMP461]

Top fuel only allows a spec blower, the PSI or Whipple blower are far more efficient and are used in TAD, but aren’t allowed in top fuel or FC. I have worked around Top fuel, and FC and have seen the boost these blowers make, they make 55 to 60 psi on the hit of the loud peddle. and the power it takes to drive them , it takes some where in the neighborhood of 500 hp to drive a big TF blower , but if a Hi Helix blower was used that about would be cut in half to 250 hp. We had a blower dyno and a clutch dyno when I was involved with a team. I have sent the biggest, barest pro charger to be dynode at a FC teams dyno , and I’m told that the Pro Charger 3000 r moved 2800 cfm of air at 38 psi and took 75 hp to turn

Contrary a turbo is not free hp; the drive pressure is a costly item, both is heat, and the ability to fill the chamber with a fresh cool intake charge. I am no saying that a Super charger is more efficient, then a turbo, but in a drag racing application where instantaneous boost is necessary, it would be potentially faster. The new super chargers are far more efferent then the ones in the past , the Pro Charger , is not prone to lag as some one else has stated , if you turn it X Rpms you get Y boost , this is relative to the restriction of the intake track and cam timing. I have been working with some people that are using the Pro Charger, and I have witness on there data logger a instantaneous 36 lbs of boost at the hit of the throttle, this is in a motor that the heads flow 400 cfm of air , almost twice what a Cummins dose and has twice the intake event on the cam.



In summary , I believe that a super charger might work , and I will be pursuing this in the future , I am also going to a single charger in the near future using one of TAD BIG BROTHER ++ , it all goes back to try any thing , no mater how ridicules , because that whay Pro Stockers have gone from 1000 hp in 1995 to 1375hp in 2005