Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Piers #10 plate and 3KGSK questions

[Rattlin_Ram]

I'm not a 12v owner, but a friend of mine is, boondock is his username on here. We just got through installing a PDR #10 plate, 3kGSK, and Autometer Boost and EGT gagues in his 98 12v. Previous owner CLAIMED it had not been tinkered with, except for the valve springs being adjusted. However we found that the stock plate was full forward, we could see where the screw driver slot in the plate bolts had been messed with. Anyway he doesn't think it has much more power now than it did before. Piers told him to install the #10 all the way back, so we did. We are thinking about sliding the plate forward a bit, or adjusting the star wheel tomorrow. Questions I have are this:



1: What boost should he be seeing with the elbow that came with this kit? He's only getting around 20-22psi, which is about what he was seeing before the plate and elbow. EGT's so far haven't gone much up over 1000 just running it hard around town.



2: Should we adjust the plate or starwheel first? I only rode in it once before we installed everything, but he says it feels about the same as before, maybe a little stronger, definatly pulls farther in the the RPM's though thanks to the GSK.



Anyway just looking for a little advise, first time I've worked on a 12v... . Hardest thing actually was the damn EGT probe, but that's a loooooong story... lol Truck won't be used to pull much more that about 3500-4000lbs. And not that often with that. Oh and BTW we are in Colorado at around 6500 ft too... ...



Thanks,

Craig...

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Craig, go to the middle and start there, adjusting the star wheel will crate more low end smoke(fuel) so slide the plate first, Always do one thing at a time with a 12V unless you have the experience, boost will be about 28-30 area and EGT's will be around 1200-1250 unloaded.



If he tows then he'll have to watch the temps, if you get too agressive you will start to beat on a stock auto, but a clutch will handle a little more.



Jim

 

[Lsfarm]

Move it Forward

I would definitely move the plate forward. Here at 1000' elevation and with a good trans or clutch I start at full forward and move back from there only if the EGT's are not controlable. At your elevation I'd move the plate to maybe halfway and give it a try and see if the EGT stays reasonable. You can reinstall the AFC housing forward from it's original position too. This does the same as adjusting the starwheel.



Moving the starwheel will only change the initial fueling, maybe give more smoke at initial start, but won't affect upper end HP if it is working correctly. Make sure that the governor arm is hitting the tip or above the tip of the fuel plate, not below the tip. This can be seen by looking at the tip at the rear of the fuel plate as installed in the pump, and pull up on the shut off lever to the run position. You can see the governor arm rise up and come forward and hopefully hit the plate just above the tip. If it isn't doing this, go to Pier's site and get the directions there for adjusting the governor lever/arm.



With the plate moved forward some you should see 30+ psi boost. Boost is a product of fueling and exhaust gas volume, and right now you don't have much fueling with the plate full back. You should see an increase in boost once you move the plate forward.



Hope this helps, Greg L

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

Thanks guys!!!

He'll be here in about an hour or so, and we'll slide it forward to about halfway or so. And see where the egt's are. Truck is a 5spd, so hopefully the clutch will take it.

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

We slid it forward....

... . MUCH better. Slid it just a little forward of the middle. Now EGT's are around 1250-1275 or so under WOT, running HARD up through the gears. Boost did come up, but is still only around 25-26 or so. Stock air intake and exhaust. Wondering if we should be seeing more. I think he is going to get a BHAF from NAPA, will that help with boost and EGT's? Also can we adjust the boost elbow? If so which direction will increase boost? Like I said we are at 6500' or so elev. so I'm not sure how much that has to do with boost levels.



Truck runs GREAT now, smoke isn't too bad unless really getting on it. He's happy with it, but of course wants more..... lol Clutch seemed to take it okay so far...

 

[nfox]

Boost Elbow

On your boost elbow turn the allen screw in to increase your boost, you should be able to get 30 to 34psi and this will cool your egt's some too. Have Fun!! Oo.

 

[bmoeller]

The BHAF will help just a little. With no other change at the time of installing mine, my boost went from a peak of 18#, to 20#. Can't comment on the EGTs though. Pyro wasn't hooked up a the time. Would reccommend a turbo heatshield. The filter will only be about 4-6" or so from the turbine housing. If I can get mine polished up nice again, he can have mine cheap. It's a Larry B h/s for a HX-35. Making a new one for my 40 out of tread-plate aluminum .

 

[boondock]

Thanks for all the help again Craig!!!



On the boost I am only running 24-25... .



Much better than before. Had the egt's up to 1300!! 4th from 40 shifting to 5th it hits 1300 around 80-85.



I will look for the allen screw and see what happens.

 

[onestackdram]

Also you WILL need to advance the timing. I would say at this point with those bombs around 16-16. 5* would be suffiecent. If at a later date he is going to add inj. it needs to go further yet. Secondly, the boost your seeing is only that low due to the elbow not being set right. I would test and drive with it, keeping the allen in your hand, drive with it, try and nail it a few times, then pop the hood turn the screw a couple turns, and drive again. And just keep doing this until you have it where you want it. The biggest thing to worry about is TIMING, if your pump is injecting fuel to late, that will skyrocket your egts.



Russell

 

[Andy Redmond]

Have your ck'd the fuel psi. ? A worn overflow valve will allow the fuel and pressure to bleed off too quickly and return more to the tank. . and cause low power too. I like to see at least 20 psi at idle and 20-30 at rated rpm (after the filter).



If you can gently squeeze the return line (behind the fuel filter housing and under the intake manifold, a short piece of rubber return to the hard lines on either end). If the pressure goes up, its likely a weak overflow valve. If it doesn't the lift pump may be weak.



Others have tossed you some great solutions too. .



Good luck

Andy

 

[boondock]

Alright I got the allen head moving and tightend it till it felt as though it was going to break. I also called Piers and they said I should check my fuel pressure, and it could be the overflow as Andy said. Also he said do not try to tighten it anymore.



Anyways with the little bit of tighting that I did the boost is up to 26 PSI, can't really tell a difference in the power or egts.



Fuel pressure guage will be going in soon as I have a three guage A pillar.

I will try what you guys said also.



Any other suggestions??

Mods to come as I want to spend the $$ will be BHAF, straight pipe or full 4 or 5" exhaust, and 370's, and hopefully a turbo as I am sure I would need to keep the egt's down with the 370's.



Thanks, Kurtis

 

[Lsfarm]

Did you try

Did you try just clamping off or removing the hose to the wastegate and see if you can develop more boost??



Unless you have a leak in the manifold, or in the intercooler, or a boot, you should be able to develop more than 26 psi.



Have you swapped this boost guage with another to check to see if it works correctly?? I've seen a split in the boost guage line that bled off about 10 psi to the guage. I spent hours chasing it down. A line kit is only a few bucks, bypass the exsisting line to verify that it is good and you aren't chasing a false reading.



Good luck, Greg L

 

[Rhondasway]

You can check the spring in the overflow; it gets compressed and you can stretch it back out as a temporary fix. Anyone know what the length is supposed to be? Don't forget to change the fuel filter and clean the pre-screen, and make sure your fuel tank breather is not capped (mine was).

Also, I'd at least upgrade your air cleaner to an K&N or Holley oiled-type. They really make a difference (reusable, just clean and re-oil), with the Holley being deeper finned. Then remove or gut the cat if it's still there and let that baby breathe!

Checking for boost leaks is also crucial: clamps, boots, intake, etc. You can have a significant leak that you won't hear. Spraying soapy water on things like your boost gauge fitting may show something at idle. If you're really suspicious, have the intercooler checked. I didn't know mine had a problem until I melted a piston... :{ When I had it checked it started leaking at 5 lbs, and wouldn't hold 10, yet my boost gauge would still go over 50.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

I helped a friend put a 3K and #10 in his truck. His truck didn't run right, either. Turned out the gov lever needed adjusted.



Jim

 

[1dslram]

Check your gov arm and adjust the arm to just above the nose on the plate. See Piers site for the instructions. http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechLeverAdj.htm Every truck I have done the same mod's to made 32 - 36# without touching the screw in the elbow. Remove the air filter and make a run and see if that is the problem. Otherwise check for boost leaks at the boots or intercooler. Make sure all the clamps are tight.

Bruce

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

If you've got time this weekend Kurt, bring it by and we'll double check the gov. arm... .

 

[boondock]

Well we closed off the boost line and it did not go up at all.



T-Bone has a 97 auto with DD2's, #10, 3KGSK, AFE stage 2with timing advanced and he also can not get over 26PSI.



Not sure what to think now... ...



What are the chances of the two trucks having similar problems like this? Wish I lived close to sea level.



Moved the AFC all the way forward and now I have lots of smoke a WOT!!!



Also added a BHAF that I bought (still have to pay him) from T-Bone seems to spool up a little better and in 5th gear I can get 27 PSI.



Is it the 7,000 foot elevation?

 

[T-Bone]

I'm very curious about this. The only thing I have left on my list is the cat and I hope to take care of that soon. After the last tweak of my AFC, the low end is much improved. Just a puff or so on take off but way better power off the line.



Hey boondock, consider the BHAF taken care of. Enjoy. All I ask is that you keep the good karma rolling.



Thanks boondock and Rattlin_Ram for all the help and the fun afternoon!



T-Bone

 

[1dslram]

At your altitude those numbers are about the best you can expect. Look elsewhere on this site there is a chart on the dorp in boost by altitued. I just don't remember where it is.

Bruce

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

Just thought I'd bring this back up since we found a few things. Boondocks truck has a boost leak at a boot down by the intake side of the intercooler. Looks like a pretty common place to leak, since on my 24v, and on T-Bone's '97 12v, the boots rub on some sensor down there. Looks like maybe an A/C sensor. Boondock also added a 4" MBRP exhaust, and a BHAF and his boost is up a few lbs now, and his EGT's are down.



T-Bone's boost elbow is leaking out a small hole on the bottom side. He is going to check into that.



But basically both trucks had boost leaks. I built a lil tester out of some PVC and and a regulator. The regulator sucks and doesn't work right. But we can air it up to about 10lbs on the boost gauge and you can find a leak RIGHT away. When I was installing my gauges a couple weeks ago I found a leak on mine with it when I installed the fitting for the gauge. Teflon tape didn't hold in the plug on the intake manifold, so I used some high temp RTV.



Here is the tester I built:

#ad


#ad