THINKING ABOUT GETING A SET OF 370 INJECTORS FROM PIERS. WAS WONDERING WHAT KIND OF POWER THIS WOULD GIVE ME? WILL I NEED TO DO ANYTHING ELSE TO KEEP EGT'S DOWN? 
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Piers 370's
- Thread starter J.R. Adkins
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I have a totally stock 215hp engine, and Piers told me it would be about 45hp. If yours is the 180 hp, it'll be more. If you have a cam plate, it'll really be more.
Feels like more to me. MUCH more responsive. Only glitch I found was I had to turn my idle up about 200rpm, and extra boost by shortening the wastegate arm. Went from 28 psi boost, to 38 psi boost.
It took me 4 hours to do the injectors. I didnt have any puller, had to use vice grips.
If I was to do it all over again, I'd plan it better and build/borrow a puller.
Eric
Feels like more to me. MUCH more responsive. Only glitch I found was I had to turn my idle up about 200rpm, and extra boost by shortening the wastegate arm. Went from 28 psi boost, to 38 psi boost.
It took me 4 hours to do the injectors. I didnt have any puller, had to use vice grips.
If I was to do it all over again, I'd plan it better and build/borrow a puller.
Eric
THey'll give you quite the kick in the pants. I added mine after I put the #1- plate in. You could really tell the difference. If you look at some of the older posts, you find instruction on a cheap way to build your own puller. If you buy them from Pier's(which I highly recommend) you'll geta puller with them if I'm not mistaken.
Paintersdsl:
I also have Piers' 370 injectors. BEFORE I put them in
I had a #6 TST plate with minor pump mods. My H. P. /
Torque on a Mustang Dyno was: 224 H. P. /625 Torque.
I installed Piers' 370 injectors, put in a #5 TST plate
and had Scheid Diesel do major P7100 pump work
to the engine. My NEW dyno #s AFTER all that was
as follows: 381 H. P. /1069 Torque. We figure the
injectors gave me about 50-60 H. P. not including
all the other work that was done.
Hope this has helped you.
---------
John_P
I also have Piers' 370 injectors. BEFORE I put them in
I had a #6 TST plate with minor pump mods. My H. P. /
Torque on a Mustang Dyno was: 224 H. P. /625 Torque.
I installed Piers' 370 injectors, put in a #5 TST plate
and had Scheid Diesel do major P7100 pump work
to the engine. My NEW dyno #s AFTER all that was
as follows: 381 H. P. /1069 Torque. We figure the
injectors gave me about 50-60 H. P. not including
all the other work that was done.
Hope this has helped you.
---------
John_P
Youre mistaken. It says install kit, not tool.
Eric
MPG
Where is your fuel milelage gone with 370s and a plate?
Where is your fuel milelage gone with 370s and a plate?
not yet
I have not yet purchased the 370's and the plate. I've had a few tech's tell me to get the pump tweaked. They say that this is more bang for the buck! Still trying to figure out what is the best thing for me to do. I dont tow much , about 4 times a year @ 7k. I just want something that will get up and go!
I have not yet purchased the 370's and the plate. I've had a few tech's tell me to get the pump tweaked. They say that this is more bang for the buck! Still trying to figure out what is the best thing for me to do. I dont tow much , about 4 times a year @ 7k. I just want something that will get up and go!
Paintersdsl-
I'm sure they didn't say what "tweaked" meant. When a pump shop says they'll "tweak" your pump, they usually just slide the stock plate forward and adjust the high idle (your shop may do more..... I don't know). I haven't found a pump shop yet that has impressed me with their tweaks. Personally I think you can perform the same tweaks the pump shop does and get the same results, maybe better results (they're usually a little conservative). When I was first getting in to diesel performance I let a pump shop tweak my pump,... . I was not impressed. I would inquire a little more as to what kind of tweaks they make.
-Cord
I'm sure they didn't say what "tweaked" meant. When a pump shop says they'll "tweak" your pump, they usually just slide the stock plate forward and adjust the high idle (your shop may do more..... I don't know). I haven't found a pump shop yet that has impressed me with their tweaks. Personally I think you can perform the same tweaks the pump shop does and get the same results, maybe better results (they're usually a little conservative). When I was first getting in to diesel performance I let a pump shop tweak my pump,... . I was not impressed. I would inquire a little more as to what kind of tweaks they make.
-Cord
How much to they charge for these "tweaks" ? At $275 a TST plate is the biggest bang for the buck. Being you have a manual transmission I would go with a #11 plate to start. This should take you from about 180 rwhp stock to about 280 rwhp, according to the chart. You are not gonna get this kinda power from "tweaks" like cumminsgetme has mentioned.
Then add 370's down the road once the bug has fully bitten and the venom has spread throughout your system. If you get 370's, Piers is the man!
Paintersdsl:
I see where you live in Mooresville, Indiana. You should
give Dan Scheid a call @ "Scheid Diesel" about setting
your pump up for you. His phone number is:1-800-669-
1593. I for one DO NOT think that doing the pump work
is a waste of money as long as it is done right and "Scheid
Diesel" does it right! They don't just "slide the stock plate
forward and adjust the high idle!"
I should be up at "Scheid Diesel" early next month. If
you want, I will try to contact you and let you drive my
truck which they did all the work on. I guarantee you
that you will not be disappointed in the performance!!
Send me an e-mail or "private message" if you are
interested. FYI, my "stock" pump was WAY OUT of
tolerance when Scheid originally did the re-calibration.
I will be glad to show you what I mean.
Let me know! Take care!
-----------
John_P
I see where you live in Mooresville, Indiana. You should
give Dan Scheid a call @ "Scheid Diesel" about setting
your pump up for you. His phone number is:1-800-669-
1593. I for one DO NOT think that doing the pump work
is a waste of money as long as it is done right and "Scheid
Diesel" does it right! They don't just "slide the stock plate
forward and adjust the high idle!"
I should be up at "Scheid Diesel" early next month. If
you want, I will try to contact you and let you drive my
truck which they did all the work on. I guarantee you
that you will not be disappointed in the performance!!
Send me an e-mail or "private message" if you are
interested. FYI, my "stock" pump was WAY OUT of
tolerance when Scheid originally did the re-calibration.
I will be glad to show you what I mean.
Let me know! Take care!
-----------
John_P
Well you have my interest. I mean nothing against Scheid Diesel either. But it seems that if I had a #5 plate, 370 injectors, high flow delivery valves, AFC kit, Gov spring Kit, in my truck I would not be disappointed in the performance either. -- I am interested in knowing what was WAY OUT of tolerance and what they are re-calibrating. Like did they remove the pump, disassemble it and do all kinds of trick stuff?
However I agree that just throwing in a bunch of parts is the easy part. Getting it all dialed in to maximize mileage, minimize smoke, make it idle well, etc. is another story. Every time I mess my mine, thinking I will learn something, I just end up driving back up to Piers to have it fixed.
However I agree that just throwing in a bunch of parts is the easy part. Getting it all dialed in to maximize mileage, minimize smoke, make it idle well, etc. is another story. Every time I mess my mine, thinking I will learn something, I just end up driving back up to Piers to have it fixed.
pump tweak
Thanks JOHN_P. How much did you pay for the tune? What did they do? How much milage and power did you gain?
Thanks JOHN_P. How much did you pay for the tune? What did they do? How much milage and power did you gain?
Paintersdsl and Sly Bones:
You have asked about what "Scheid Diesel" did to my pump
and "what was WAY OUT of tolerance. " Let me see if
I can explain it to you... ... .....
From the day my 96' was new it had VERY low power,
idled rough and started hard. I knew something was
wrong and Dodge was "jerking me around. " My old
first generation 92' CTD was faster than the 96' with
the old 160 H. P. engine!! I called Dan Scheid and he
assured me that he could get the truck running right.
I drove up to his shop in Terre Haute, Ind. where they
did the work.
Please understand that I am NOT a diesel technician
or mechanic, so if some of you "experts" read this
and something doesn't sound completely right,... ...
my apologies!! I wanted "paintersdsl" and "Sly
Bones" to understand how critical it is for the pump
to be "set right. "
First of all, YES, the P7100 pump has to be removed
from the engine to be calibrated. Scheid uses test stands/
"flow benches" to calibrate the P7100 pump. These
pumps are built by several manafacturers, two being,
"Bosch" and "Bacharach. " Bought new they cost
nearly $80,000!!! The pump is hooked up to this
stand and actually runs as though it were on the
engine. They run calibration fluid through the pump
while testing it and can vary the RPM. IMO, it is as
close to "real world" conditions you can get.
On my pump they immediately found that the individual
"cylinders" or injection lines were not "equal" or
even close to minimum specs. As I recall the "flow"
in the "cylinders" or injection lines were as follows:
#1- 18 #2-21 #3-15 #4-16 #5-10 #6-13
(Above numbers represent "cc's of fuel per line")
As you can see there was a big difference in fuel
flow between #1 and #6. "Cylinder" #5 was
especially bad at "10"!!! This was what was
causing a good part of my rough idle and hard
starting I mentioned above. They "reset" the flow
in ALL "cylinders" or lines to "20cc".
They also found that my "pump timing" was off.
The timing had been at "10". They "reset" this
to "spec" @ "13. 5. "
Additionally, my overflow valve was found to be
bad and the throttle was not opening all the
way ON THE PUMP! This too was all corrected.
A "stock" P7100 pump will usually have a "stock"
fuel flow setting of 170-180cc's of fuel per 1000
strokes of the pump. This fuel flow "setting"
cannot be changed unless you take the pump
off the engine and put it on a "test stand. "
The P7100 pumps have the capability to flow
ALOT of fuel!! Especially the "215 pumps"
which have a different cam than my "180"
amongst other things!
In addition to ALL THIS, they also made
adjustments to the governor.
Dan Scheid did all of this for me "under
warranty. " The truck ran FANTASTIC after
this and I have been back to their shop
two more times since the initial "tune-up"
and it REALLY runs good now! Many of
the other members who know me, have
ridden in my truck or drove it will "vouch"
for that!
As you can see, there was ALOT wrong
with my P7100 pump initially. And I will
admit that I may be an "exception" to
the norm. But... ..... could the problems
have been detected or fixed "on the truck?"
The simple answer to that is "NO. "
And "Sly Bones" I agree with you that
there probably are shops out there that
"adjust the high idle and slide the plate
forward. " And "tweaking" the pump is
probably not a good choice of words.
But... ... a "properly calibrated pump,
done on a calibrated test stand, by a
good technician" can give you one h***
of alot of horespower on these 12 valve
CTD trucks! And this is over and above
what the cam plate(s) and injectors give.
I hope this has helped "clear-up" some
of your questions.
Finally, my thanks to Dan Scheid and the
entire Scheid Diesel staff for all they have
done for me the last few years. They are
one shop that I believe "does it right!"
----------
John_P
You have asked about what "Scheid Diesel" did to my pump
and "what was WAY OUT of tolerance. " Let me see if
I can explain it to you... ... .....
From the day my 96' was new it had VERY low power,
idled rough and started hard. I knew something was
wrong and Dodge was "jerking me around. " My old
first generation 92' CTD was faster than the 96' with
the old 160 H. P. engine!! I called Dan Scheid and he
assured me that he could get the truck running right.
I drove up to his shop in Terre Haute, Ind. where they
did the work.
Please understand that I am NOT a diesel technician
or mechanic, so if some of you "experts" read this
and something doesn't sound completely right,... ...
my apologies!! I wanted "paintersdsl" and "Sly
Bones" to understand how critical it is for the pump
to be "set right. "
First of all, YES, the P7100 pump has to be removed
from the engine to be calibrated. Scheid uses test stands/
"flow benches" to calibrate the P7100 pump. These
pumps are built by several manafacturers, two being,
"Bosch" and "Bacharach. " Bought new they cost
nearly $80,000!!! The pump is hooked up to this
stand and actually runs as though it were on the
engine. They run calibration fluid through the pump
while testing it and can vary the RPM. IMO, it is as
close to "real world" conditions you can get.
On my pump they immediately found that the individual
"cylinders" or injection lines were not "equal" or
even close to minimum specs. As I recall the "flow"
in the "cylinders" or injection lines were as follows:
#1- 18 #2-21 #3-15 #4-16 #5-10 #6-13
(Above numbers represent "cc's of fuel per line")
As you can see there was a big difference in fuel
flow between #1 and #6. "Cylinder" #5 was
especially bad at "10"!!! This was what was
causing a good part of my rough idle and hard
starting I mentioned above. They "reset" the flow
in ALL "cylinders" or lines to "20cc".
They also found that my "pump timing" was off.
The timing had been at "10". They "reset" this
to "spec" @ "13. 5. "
Additionally, my overflow valve was found to be
bad and the throttle was not opening all the
way ON THE PUMP! This too was all corrected.
A "stock" P7100 pump will usually have a "stock"
fuel flow setting of 170-180cc's of fuel per 1000
strokes of the pump. This fuel flow "setting"
cannot be changed unless you take the pump
off the engine and put it on a "test stand. "
The P7100 pumps have the capability to flow
ALOT of fuel!! Especially the "215 pumps"
which have a different cam than my "180"
amongst other things!
In addition to ALL THIS, they also made
adjustments to the governor.
Dan Scheid did all of this for me "under
warranty. " The truck ran FANTASTIC after
this and I have been back to their shop
two more times since the initial "tune-up"
and it REALLY runs good now! Many of
the other members who know me, have
ridden in my truck or drove it will "vouch"
for that!
As you can see, there was ALOT wrong
with my P7100 pump initially. And I will
admit that I may be an "exception" to
the norm. But... ..... could the problems
have been detected or fixed "on the truck?"
The simple answer to that is "NO. "
And "Sly Bones" I agree with you that
there probably are shops out there that
"adjust the high idle and slide the plate
forward. " And "tweaking" the pump is
probably not a good choice of words.
But... ... a "properly calibrated pump,
done on a calibrated test stand, by a
good technician" can give you one h***
of alot of horespower on these 12 valve
CTD trucks! And this is over and above
what the cam plate(s) and injectors give.
I hope this has helped "clear-up" some
of your questions.
Finally, my thanks to Dan Scheid and the
entire Scheid Diesel staff for all they have
done for me the last few years. They are
one shop that I believe "does it right!"
----------
John_P
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
