Powerstroke owners are clueless

[rbarr]

The new 6. 0's variable vane turbo is supposed to have boost evan at an idle. Something like 10 lbs. So, you'd think this would take care of low torque under 1800rpm. But I understand when ford gets these engines from navistar they install there own electronics which could explain alot.

 

[Neibe]

Originally posted by TBrennan

I'm 6'1" and I don't find the driver's seat any harder to get into than any other truck I've been in.



Also, I don't know why I keep hearing about Ford building a better truck. I think that is Ford marketing doing it's thing and why they outsell Dodge so much. What is about their ancient technology leaf springs (which they are going to abondon in favor of coils and links like Dodge 10 years ago), C channel frame, drivetrain, or spartan interior trim that makes people think they are "tougher"? It's just that Ford Tough image from the commercial in your head!



All trucks have the same pathetic sheet metal, crappy paint, and cheap plastic parts. The new AAM axles seem to be at least as good as their Dana counter parts. So why exactly is Ford a better "truck"?



My '03 handles better, drives straighter, and brakes better than any other truck I have driven.

I agree a few years ago 4 wheel and off road magazine did a test on a Ford and a Dodge they parked them both on a real twisty section and took a picture. It was a section where the left front tire were going in the opposite direction as the right rear was. The body lines on the Ford were way out of whack the Dodge was as straight as an arrow. They said the Dodge had a stronger frame. I think this article was about 1996 year vehicles.



If your going to complain about missing wheel well liners, hood insulation, or underhood light, give me a break. Spend $200 and get those things if you want.

 

[Neibe]

A few years ago 4wheel and off road did a test on the Ford and a Dodge. They parked both trucks on the same section of twisty road were the left front tire were going a different direction than the right rear. On the Ford the body lines were way out of whack the Dodge body lines were as straight as an arrow. They said the Dodge had a stronger frame this was about 1996. This was about the time all the rumors about the Dodge having a weak frame you can guess were those rumors started thats right your freindly neighborhood Ford dealer.

 

[ndurbin]

I was reading a brochure at the Ford dealership while a buddy was workin a deal on a truck. Not a 6. 0L thank god! But I was told that the 6. 0 had a aluminum head? the brochure said it was cast iron. And I can see why they complain about no power the 6. 0 doesn't reach peak torque til about 2100-2200 rpm and doesn't hit peak hp til 3250 rpm. And from personal exprience all the 7. 3s I've come across ya got give em alotta r's to get power.

 

[WadePatton]

Hmmm, lemme see now, boost at idle-yet no power until 1800 rpm. And then Ford says that maybe the driver is dumb and doesn't know how diesels operate.



Sounds more like Ford is dumb to me.



Ford guy brings his truck in because it has no power, leaks all over, won't start when the wind blows out of the east, fuel is diluting the engine oil--and the Service Manager informs him that he, the driver, "just doesn't know how diesels operate". :-laf



Quantity is Job 1.



Yeah, most PSD owners are clueless, but then so are most drivers. But I do love it when they try to pass me. :-laf:-laf



We are the hardcore, get your fingers dirty, kind of folks. And I'm sure there are those in the other camps too.



And then the dyno operator has pretty quick 7. 3--we raced after the last dyno run. He got off the line quicker, but we were evenly matched after I quit spinning tires. That was B4 the DD3's.



I do know of one (local) PSD guy who--after spending untold amounts of cash, hit the HP wall with his 7. 3 and said to heck with it, I'm getting a Dodge. He joined the TDR and everything. Guess I'll have to go check on him, see what he got.



And while we're on the functional intricacies of the wunderbar V8's--the question that pops up in my head over and over again is WHY V8? The I6 seems to me to be vastly superior--and as I like to say, the way God intended diesel engines to be configured. Yeah, I know everybody makes V8 diesels, but most of them aren't. If V8 diesel was the way to go (more reliable, economical, or durable), then that's what would be in the OTR rigs. If you'll listen, you'll hear that the big trucks sound a little more like my truck than they do a PSD.

 

[lmills]

If I remember right, the heads are a two piece design. The bottom part is cast iron and the section that bolts on top is aluminum

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

I suppose that the 6. 0L does make boost right off idle anyway. At college there is a guy with one and he is revving it all the TIME,the turbo starts whistling as soon as it is off idle. I thought he had a bunch done to it but somebody said the only performance-wise mod was a straight pipe.



If he don't stop that showing off I'm going to pull up beside him in the parking lot and :-laf while I eliminate the entire mosquito population on campus.



Steve

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by WadePatton

Yeah, I know everybody makes V8 diesels, but most of them aren't. If V8 diesel was the way to go (more reliable, economical, or durable), then that's what would be in the OTR rigs. If you'll listen, you'll hear that the big trucks sound a little more like my truck than they do a PSD.

One other reason they don't use V-8s in OTR trucks is WEIGHT. To dang heavy. The only use that I have seen lately for a 550hp. 3408, was to power a huge tub grinder.



Why would you use a heavy motor like that one when a 3406 can do the same job, with more torque for the same HP.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Re: International does not see near the troubles

In the Internat'l trucks, the 7. 3 was running between 180-195hp, about 450-500trq. The 6. 0L is around 245hp 520trq. Plus the 6. 0L only turn about 3000rpm.



In Fords, the 7. 3 is rated at 215-255hp and 450-505trq. The 6. 0 is rated at 325hp and 525trq. , turning to 4 grand!



Notice even though the horsepower numbers are higher, the torque ratings are about the same--goes back to the old math again. Horsepower is just a calculation of RPM, torque, and cubic inches. The sofware differences between the International versions and Ford's morphidite POS process is where the problem is. Keep the engine to perform LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED and the problem amazingly decrease. Notice I didn't say *go away*, just decrease.

The 2003 7. 3 made 275hp and 520 lb ft. Torque peak at 1600, Which is where its supposed to be anyways. Too bad you couldnt get one of those with the torqueshift. That transmission is doing great getting the power to the ground. The 6. 0 is making 560 lb ft of torque at peak which is at 2000 rpm. The torque curve is very poor compared to the cummins. Not flat. Peaky. It has dropped to about 512 lb ft by 3300 rpm. The cummins spends more time at peak even though it utilises far fewer rpm. 1400-2900 is great for an I-6 diesel to hold its torque.



Now for an interesting development. I go to the ford dealer a couple of days ago on a spy mission. Im looking for the epa tag on the t444p. Guess what. Its a light duty emissions engine. Why the hell do they fork the thing out of its medium duty rating to put it in the f650s or 750s. I just dont understand fords thinking.

 

[Sticks]

I know just enough about diesels to get me in trouble. I have had a couple of conversations with some die hard Ford owners about the PSD, and the CTD. I try to take them down a different path when they talk about my weak a$$ engine.



"You would agree that the F550 and up truck are a heavier duty, stronger, made for tough work, truck. . right?"



"Yup"



"So why is it that my 'weak a$$ engine' is an option in those heavier duty, stronger, made for tough work, trucks of yours? And remember, strength is in torque, not horse power. "



"... Uuhhhhh... Your's is still slow. "



"OK. You paid $45k for your comparable equipped truck, right?"



"Yup"



"Mine would be around $38k. I can go spend $3k on dialing in my truck, and it would be stronger, faster, and still last much longer than yours, or $7k and it would be more than yours could ever be for the same price you paid stock. "



"... Uuhhhhh... Your's is still noisy. "



"Only at idle... "

 

[JCockrell]

Originally posted by sticks





"... Uuhhhhh... Your's is still noisy. "

"Only at idle... "

:-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[truckstom]

Originally posted by bmoeller

One other reason they don't use V-8s in OTR trucks is WEIGHT. To dang heavy. The only use that I have seen lately for a 550hp. 3408, was to power a huge tub grinder.



Why would you use a heavy motor like that one when a 3406 can do the same job, with more torque for the same HP.

plus it's WAY too $$expensive$$ to overhaul..... last 3408 I heard was over $20,000 to rebuild... .

 

[OTRPU]

Lately I've been called a cranky old fart, now I find out I'm also clueless. Sheeeze. . . I was really clueless when I blowed my 99 Cummins up. Had to run that whimpy old PSD for 4 months to get the coin to get the Ram outta hock. Hands down my Rams a better hauler than my PSD, prolly even without the sleeper. But with the sleeper. . . no contest. Guess I don't understand blind brand loyalty, if I had a Chebby. . . it would break too.



#ad


Cheers,

Steve J

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

They finally fixed the standard engine thing. They now have the 6. 0 standard. I think that international now builds the chassis and drops a ford body on it. It is built off the intl 4200 chassis. The cummins is available with 30 more hp and 40 more lb ft of torque than the PSD.



I think it would be worthy of pointing out, to a clueless owner, that a smaller engine with fewer cylinders makes more power from the factory. This is in an application where the engines are worked hard. So where it counts. The cummins outshines the PSD.

 

[vrwheeler]

As one of those guys that knows nothing about the truck he bought, but was lucky enought to have friends that said buy cummins diesel. I got a 98 12v 4/4 , auto, cc, kdp, transmission by fred in az. Then another friend told me about this web site. Every thing I know about diesels (which is not much) came from this web site. I guess it,s time for another lesson, I know about the wait to start light, but whats this about cool down time for the turbo? Now remember it's not nice to poke fun at us who are still learning. Thanks.

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by OTRPU

Lately I've been called a cranky old fart, now I find out I'm also clueless. Sheeeze. . .

I didn't think so when I met ya a while back.

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Raven

As one of those guys that knows nothing about the truck he bought, but was lucky enought to have friends that said buy cummins diesel. I got a 98 12v 4/4 , auto, cc, kdp, transmission by fred in az. Then another friend told me about this web site. Every thing I know about diesels (which is not much) came from this web site. I guess it,s time for another lesson, I know about the wait to start light, but whats this about cool down time for the turbo? Now remember it's not nice to poke fun at us who are still learning. Thanks.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97574

 

[vrwheeler]

thank you I'm also learning to use the search on this web site.

 

[jarsong]

Originally posted by illflem

I've met just as many clueless Dodge owners as Ford.

Think it has more to do with the people driving them than the brand they drive.

Now that I respectfully disagree with. I would bet more people "Tinker" with their Rams than with the grocery getter powerstrokes. Dodge owners for the most part are in a different demographic than the Ford owners. We tow heavy crap for YEARS, they take kids to the soccer fields and stop at Albertsons on the way. Logging industry in my area would be the big exception, but they don't screw with their trucks but rather fight to keep them working. Both have there exceptions. Almost EVERY Ram owner I know has chipped or modded there trucks. I know of only one in our family of many Powerstrokes that has done anything.

jarsong