PREMO OIL REFINER v. AMSOIL DUAL BYPASS

[RDietze]

i am looking at possibly getting a bypass system when/if i switch over to synthetic oil. does anyone have any pros or conns with the above oil bypass systems?



thank you

 

[GLASMITHS]

i am looking at possibly getting a bypass system when/if i switch over to synthetic oil. does anyone have any pros or conns with the above oil bypass systems?



thank you

I have the "Oil Guard" EP20. Just changed the filter for the first time at 12K. I was very impressed with how clean the inside of the canaster was and also the magnetic drain plug. It always has a small amount of black stuff on it, even changing at 5K. But both were clean and did not require cleaning. This was using Valvoline Sup;reme 5w40. I did change to Royal Purple 15W40. Also my oil pressure increased from 60 to 63 psi hot. I am very satisfied with mine. Considered the TP. Just concluded that the TP is used for something else; but not to filter oil.

 

[LightmanE300]

I think the TP system is a joke - you're constantly changing tp , and adding oil, basically changing a small part of your oil all the time. Seems like a waste of time to me. I prefer the traditional bypass approach, like Amsoil's or Oilguard. I had an oilguard on my last vehicle, and it was great - however the filter elements are a major pain/mess to change. I got the Amsoil setup this time because of the easy spin on filters and relocating the full flow to an easily accessible location (I don't have to get under the truck). TDR member CPFF makes a nice battery box mount for the amsoil setup for 2nd gens. .

 

[GLASMITHS]

I think the TP system is a joke - you're constantly changing tp , and adding oil, basically changing a small part of your oil all the time. Seems like a waste of time to me. I prefer the traditional bypass approach, like Amsoil's or Oilguard. I had an oilguard on my last vehicle, and it was great - however the filter elements are a major pain/mess to change. I got the Amsoil setup this time because of the easy spin on filters and relocating the full flow to an easily accessible location (I don't have to get under the truck). TDR member CPFF makes a nice battery box mount for the amsoil setup for 2nd gens. .

I agree with you about the TP thing. However, I also expected the Oilguard to be messey, but it wasn't. Didn't spill a drop. And I put mine down on the frame below the radiator. Did not want it on battery. Too much up there to begin with. And changing it once per year when the other filters and oil is changed makes it a non-issue to getting under the truck. I actually thought this was a canaster filter, but am glad now it is not, because you can see all the crud on the filter element and how clean the canistor was.

 

[LightmanE300]

The oilguard I had was messy unless you were really careful and it was cold. I like to change mine hot, and it was a pain. You had to unscrew the silver/chrome filter housing, then the filter element would be exposed. Then you have to grab the oily filter element and unthread it from the top of the assembly. Then the o-ring etc. It was a just a LOT more hassle than spinning on and off a filter. The only advantage to the oilguard to me is cheaper elements, by a few bucks. Not worth the extra hassle to me. Visual inspection of oil offers no real indication of quality or condition.



I have had great oil analysis reports with both systems.

 

[RDietze]

what does TP stand for?



how much does the Amsoil dual bypass go for $?



thanks for your inputs

ron

 

[AMink]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98863



Here's several pages of reading re: the TP filter.

 

[rweis]

I just installed the RACOR LFS-802 bypass filter. It is much like the OilGuard (which I think I have read is made by RACOR), but I chose RACOR based on their product line and known commercial use.



I intentionally went with the 60 qt sump version to get the larger filter, looking to a once per year filter change.



I measured oil flow rate through the LFS-802 new, and will monitor the flow rate during the course of the year. How are you going to measure when to change the bypass filter?



The drawback I saw with the Amsoil dual bypass, you could not measure just the flow rate of the bypass filter (as I understand it). The Amsoil single bypass filter you can measure.



How / when are you going to change your full flow filter?



Are you going to do oil analysis?



Are you going to do "refresh" cycles or total changes? What are you going to use as your parameters?



Bob Weis

 

[Hohn]

Does anyone have any pros or cons with the above oil bypass systems?

Then we have:

I have the "Oil Guard" EP20.

Was the OilGard one of the "Above" systems? Or am I misreading?



JLH

 

[GLASMITHS]

Then we have:









Was the OilGard one of the "Above" systems? Or am I misreading?



JLH

 

[rweis]

I went to the Diesel Power Products web page and read the literature for the PREMO OIL REFINER.



I have a couple of questions:



There are other bypass filters that does pretty much the same thing (especially the heater) and some of the arguments I read were:



1. What is the heater about? The oil is already at or very near 195*F as it is in the engine. It is an extra failure point. Does 195*F really rid the oil of fuel dilution, water and liquid contaminants? Why would the engine not do that naturally? We do vent the oil system to the atmosphere.



2. It talks of gravity return. Meaning you have to mount it above what? If oil is entering under pressure why does it not exit under pressure?



Does state what it filters (3um) and at what % (97. 8), which few others do.



How are you going to know if the filter clogs early (ie on a already dirty inside of the engine)?



"Periodic laboratory oil analysis will virtually eliminate oil changes and disposal costs". I would not get too wrapped up with that statement. You have to have the oil analyzed periodically to see how the oil is holding up (metals, insoluables, additive package, water %, fuel %, particulate levels, etc), and I think it will get dumped periodically. However that is no different with any EOCI (Extended Oil Change Interval).



I offer "Lubefinder.com" a industrial oil analysis site that has some good info on it. There are a couple of threads here in TDR about EOCI . Another site Nodia.com is a commercial oil site with good information.



I do think you are on the right track (bypass filtering) without a doubt! I also think the seperate bypass unit is a better unit than the "dual" ones because you can check the flow rate (quantity / time) of the bypass filter to help determine if it clogs early (mine flows 1 qt / 60 sec, warm oil, 35 psi, idle). (Specifically addressing the subject line).



Welcome to the bypass filter experimenters, we all have a learning curve that we can help each other with.



Bob Weis

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

I know that the oilguard wasn't one of the options. However I still have one sitting and am still reluctant to put it in due to the "Twine" filter. I was more concerned about debris from the filter media ITSELF (Whatever it may be weather it be twine , tp , or paper) clogging presious oil jets and gallys and such.



That was my only chime on the subject. Carry on.

 

[rweis]

If you go and investigate the industrial "weave filters" I think you will find they are like the Oil Guard and RACOR weave filters. Oil Guard may make the RACOR one's, but I went with RACOR just for the kind of reasons you have. RACOR does industrial filtering of all kinds, the LFS-802 is just one small component. I do not see Oil Guard as a major industrial supplier.



If you look up ISO Cleanliness Code (ISO 4406) you will find there are several industrial "weave filters" that filter all sorts of fluids to generally 2. 8um absolute.



After I spent a couple of weeks reading the industrial applications I felt safe using a "weave" filter from a major industrial applications supplier.



Just my . 02, however, do not do the install until you feel it is the thing for you to do.



Bob Weis

 

[GLASMITHS]

This is one of the main reasons why I did not go with the TP or paper towels.

 

[RDietze]

Then we have:









Was the OilGard one of the "Above" systems? Or am I misreading?



JLH

Hohn and GLASMITHS,



my original question was directed at the subject line "premo vs. amsoil dual bypass," not the oilguard system. but it seems a few folks run the oilguard. no one responded about the premo refiner - it IS expensive in the mid $350s - i was just wondering if the premo worked, because it would cost about twice as much as other systems out there.



thanks for your inputs,

ron

 

[GLASMITHS]

Hohn and GLASMITHS,



my original question was directed at the subject line "premo vs. amsoil dual bypass," not the oilguard system. but it seems a few folks run the oilguard. no one responded about the premo refiner - it IS expensive in the mid $350s - i was just wondering if the premo worked, because it would cost about twice as much as other systems out there.



thanks for your inputs,

ron

You always get more than you ask for :-laf . Also this should tell you that not many people see an benefits to the premo; since one of the objectives of the changing of filters is to renew the additive pack.

 

[rweis]

If you go to the commercial filter manufacturer's I think you will find there are several commercial industrial grade bypass filters. I too thought they were more $$$ than necessary to do the job. My CTD is not food grade, is not 24/7/365, does not cause a $$$ loss during downtime.



If you go to non commercial filter manufacturer's I think you will find there are several non commercial industrial grade bypass filters. I chose the RACOR for items stated in previous post.



There is a ton of info on industrial sites about studies on $$$ effectiveness of bypass, maintaining oil integrity, just read one on a 300,000 mile study of $ saved with cleaner oil / less heat / less friction yielded . 3 to . 7 additional mpg. These are real analysis, not suppositions, by firms, city's, counties.



Does your local city or county gov't use bypass filters on any of their fleet? Might be a good question to ask to see what they do, and what they use.



Bob Weis

 

[Car_nut57]

Premo

I went to the Diesel Power Products web page and read the literature for the PREMO OIL REFINER.



I have a couple of questions:



There are other bypass filters that does pretty much the same thing (especially the heater) and some of the arguments I read were:



1. What is the heater about? The oil is already at or very near 195*F as it is in the engine. It is an extra failure point. Does 195*F really rid the oil of fuel dilution, water and liquid contaminants? Why would the engine not do that naturally? We do vent the oil system to the atmosphere.



2. It talks of gravity return. Meaning you have to mount it above what? If oil is entering under pressure why does it not exit under pressure?



Does state what it filters (3um) and at what % (97. 8), which few others do.



How are you going to know if the filter clogs early (ie on a already dirty inside of the engine)?



"Periodic laboratory oil analysis will virtually eliminate oil changes and disposal costs". I would not get too wrapped up with that statement. You have to have the oil analyzed periodically to see how the oil is holding up (metals, insoluables, additive package, water %, fuel %, particulate levels, etc), and I think it will get dumped periodically. However that is no different with any EOCI (Extended Oil Change Interval).



I offer "Lubefinder.com" a industrial oil analysis site that has some good info on it. There are a couple of threads here in TDR about EOCI . Another site Nodia.com is a commercial oil site with good information.



I do think you are on the right track (bypass filtering) without a doubt! I also think the seperate bypass unit is a better unit than the "dual" ones because you can check the flow rate (quantity / time) of the bypass filter to help determine if it clogs early (mine flows 1 qt / 60 sec, warm oil, 35 psi, idle). (Specifically addressing the subject line).



Welcome to the bypass filter experimenters, we all have a learning curve that we can help each other with.



Bob Weis

I will try to answer some of the questions you present.

1) The heated element is to ensure that when the oil is spread out into a thin layer on the heated ramps that it has enough heat to evaporate the liquid contaminants such as condesation etc. You are right that the oil temp may be very near that temperature already and the engine naturally does this through the crank case vent. The Premo takes it one step farther by making the oil flow in a thin layer giving it much more surface area for evaporation and venting.



2) The unit needs to be mounted high enough above the oil level so the oil returniong to the engine flows back by gravity. This is because of the evaporation chamber with heating element is vented to atmoshere and the oil is no longer under pressure.



3) The absolute rating of the Premo filter is important for ensuring no particles larger than 3 Micron can pass through it. Many filters that claim very small micron ratings are not rate absolute which means they can let particles larger than the rating pass through the filter. Premo is one of the few filters that are rated using this standard.



4) The new Premo units have a clear top you can look through and see the oil flowing over the heated ramps. The older style had a sight tube in the return hose.



5) oil change interval. We have not changed the oil in any of our diesels since using the Premo on them. My wife's Excursion with the diesel engine now has about 70K on the oil and as long as the analysis keep coming back good we won't be changing it. The oil should be changed if the oil analysis comes back indicating that should be done and every 100K or so.



I hope this helps.

 

[rweis]

What do you use to measure to see if the PRIMO filter needs replacing before the oil needs to be replaced (ie viscosity, additives, TBN, metals, dispersants, ... )?



Bob Weis

 

[Car_nut57]

I simply use the oil analysis we get from ANA labs. Besides all the numers and condition of the additives they provide a recommendation regarding good for further use or identify what parameters might be a problem and recommend if the oild should be changed or not. They also will give possible causes of any problem identified in the analysis.