Propane, vapor or liquid, what's best?

[moparguy]

Brain picking time guys. Well, I'm thinking that a propane system may be the next major addition to the Lit'l Red One Ton. I'd go with a CNG system but don't have natural gas at the house to use with a home compressor, and propane is readly available when on the road. You've gotta look long and hard for CNG. So back to the subject question, what are the advantages/disadvantages of the liquid and vapor systems. What's the difference in the tanks.

Thanks, Ronnie

 

[RPhCummins]

I'd check out Bullydog's website.
Bullydog.com. They seem to have a pretty good system. I got to testdrive a propane injected 2001 the other day and that was a heart stopper. It was pumped up to about 600 horse with some other add ons besides the propane.

There is a guy on E-bay that sells a kit. You'll have to look under "propane injection"
to find that one.

Good luck
RPh

 

[Bart Timothy]

I believe the best system on the market is the Edge Pro which is a far superior system to Bully Dog's. It useses all standard off the shelf, time proven, fork lift propane parts.

Whether you should run liquid or vapor depends on many variables. Overall, liquid is a superior method but will probably require hot water plumbing to the regulator and you won't be able to run a BBQ tank which reduces the number of outlets where you can get refueled. The biggest problem with vapor systems is in cold weather and under constant use, the supply tank will become iced up and loose all pressure. In warmer weather it works very well.

 

[HVAC]

RPhCummins, can you tell me how to reach the guy with the 600 hp 2001? He certainly sounds like someone that I would like to communicate with. I am not aware of anybody with that much power in a ISB.

IMO the system capable of being fed with liquid is the best. I have seen vapor tanks overfilled many times and this can cause big problems with vapor regulators. When the liquid vaporizes at the regulator it can cause the regulater to freeze in which case you have no pressure control. I use a fork lift tank and the pressure in the tank is not effected by the engine drawing fuel off. In a vapor cylinder you can freeze the tank up in which case you cannot draw any fuel from the cylinder. The liquid system is more reliable and safer IMO.

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Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[moparguy]

Thanks for the comeback guys. Since I posted the original question, I've used the search function on both the TDR and the Ford site and am currently reading up on all the info I've found.

As HVAC said, liquid look like the better system. But if cost is a factor, it seems one can't discount the vapor systems.

Well, back to the research lab.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

moparguy
I run a vapor system. One thing I don`t like about it is when there is a wide range of outdoor temperature`s ,like the fall, You must constantly adjust you regulator if you want to run the system at its max power.
One day the regulator setting is to little. Next day its to much. Set up the regulator on a 50 degree day (approx Tank perssure 75psi) and your fine. Next day its 80 degrees( approx tank pressure now 130psi). Hit the propane and it sounds like every rod is going to come out the block. Way too much propane. See the chart and you`ll know what I mean. Notice the different tank pressures at different temps on this chart. The varying temps really screw up the regulator settings. (Fall & Spring seasons mostly)

#ad




[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 12-11-2000). ]

 

[Bart Timothy]

HVAC, I was thinking you'd probably take notice after reading about that 600 hp!!! I'm personally skeptical of the claim.

 

[HVAC]

Moparguy,

Correction, don't discount safety. Do not purchase a propane system based on price. Someone I know had his engine ruined as a result of a vapor system gone haywire #ad
Propane is a potentially volotile fuel. Most consider it a hazardous material. You need fittings and hose that can withstand much more then your patio bar b que. The lock off needs to be stout. Etc.

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Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[HVAC]

Hehehe, LOL @ Bart Timothy! #ad


You saw 586 hp in LV so you know it is possible. I have more in my bag but we save it for the strip. We'll see if RPhCummins can substantiate his claim. Don't wave those numbers in my face #ad

 

[Rebel]

HEMI®Dart, My understanding of regulators are that they regulate the pressure output regardless of the input pressure (unless the input is less than the current output setting, in which case the input pressure equals the output pressure). Is it possible that you have a defective regulator, or it's not oriented in the proper direction of flow? Just curious, I'm thinking of doing a little propane bombing myself #ad


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1997 2500 Ext Cab 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pac brake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce clutch,K&N airfilter,Missing Cat,Isspro gauges,and #11plate(280hp/680tq)AFC medium spring

 

[moparguy]

Rebel, you're right. The outlet pressure should be constant, reguardless of the inlet. That's assuming that the regulator is properly sized and trimed for the expected inlet and outlet pressures.

HEMI has described a regulator that needs help. The problem he described can be eliminated. Prehaps with a dual stage regulator system, or just a larger regulator with a wider operating range. However,with these changes, system expense goes up. I'd wager that the manufacture of the system can provide help with the pressure fluxations on the outlet side if one wanted to pay the necessary price.

I think the simpler solution would be to provide a more controlled temperature environment for the storage tank. I can see a insulated box with some type controlled heat, either coolent from the engine, or resistance heat. That would lessen the wide temperature swings of the propane. Giving the regulator a much better chance of providing a constant volume of gas to the engine.

MOST IMPORTANT: NEVER MESS WITH NATURAL GAS OR PROPANE REGULATORS/CONTROLLS UNLESS YOU REALLY, REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. READ, HAVE A STRONG BACKGROUND IN THE BUSINESS BEFORE YOU START MESSING WITH THIS STUFF.

 

[kevin1]

ahh just go liquid it is alot easier and safer and temp won't bother it just don't get to much in the engine I did this and it was no fun

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks Guys for the info on the regulator.

I read in my BullyDog installation instructions:

"Extreme outside air temperature variations may require different regulator adjustment screw settings"

I figured this was just a characteristic of a vapor system.

I will get in touch with Bullydog. My output[regulator] pressure definately changes with the temperature. Maybe too extreme. I could have a bad regulator.

Thanks Again #ad



------------------
Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.

[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 12-12-2000). ]

 

[moparguy]

Bill, I reread my last post and I wasn't very clear on what I was attempting to say. I do believe your regulator needs help or replacing, with a better type regulator, not a different example of the same model. Which is to say that the one you have may be working as the manufacture intended it's just that with the temperature/pressure swings you see, it's not the best reg. for this application.

When you talk to-------- , they'll likely say it's working as intended, and that the problem is the physical properties of propane, not a problem with the regulator.

I'm suggesting that they took the cheap way out, used a regluator that isn't able to deal with the wide swings of inlet pressure you're seeing. They could have used a dual stage regulator system to lessen the problem.

Sounds like marketing won out over engineering.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I understand your response now Moparguy. It`s almost exactly what Bullydog told me today.
Thanks again for the tip #ad



BullyDog Tech dept. response:
We would be happy to look at the regulator if you would send it back to us.
We will do all updates.
It may have a sticky valve.
Send a note explaining the problem, also your complete shipping address with
Name & Number.
There is a second regulator available if it is just a temp problem, but I
doubt it.
Thanks, Bully Dog

------------------
Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.



[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 12-13-2000). ]

 

[RPhCummins]

The guy that claimed the 600 horse is at Wright tire and oil in Idaho Falls, Idaho.

Kurt is his name. Actually I think he was claiming horsepower that would be obtained by adding all of the maximum out-put for each after market bombing toy put on the truck.

However, I can tell you, that the seat of the pants meter was impressed with how his truck ran.

I didn't mean to mis-inform anyone.

RPh