pyro installation/ exhaust manifold

[DarkRAM]

I've ordered the EDGE juice/attitude for my truck and currently don't have a pryo gauge installed. When I drill and tap for the sensor in the exhaust manifold does it need to be cold or at operating temp. Is there a risk of more damage to it one way or another? Or is this a non-issue?



Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[CLAYTON]

It doesn't matter unless it's to hot to touch. You should be fine either way.

 

[Kennywould]

My experience with driliing manifolds, use good sharp bits, I use wax to lubricate the bit and tap, I drill them manifold cold and at slow speed

 

[Dkuhlman]

Some good info

I don't know if '03s and up still have the divided manifold but the rest of the advise certainly applies.

http://www.piersdiesel.com/TechPyroInstall.htm

Good luck,



Don

 

[Kennywould]

Yes there is a divider



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[MacHaggis]

How about the tap?

Any thoughts on the best type of tap to use? Is carbide too hard to use in something as brittle as a manifold?

 

[Kennywould]

I used a steel tap, lots of wax, make sure you use the proper thread!

 

[smokejunkie]

I like to start the truck just about the time your through the manifold so none of the drill shavings get where they shouldn't be. ps. better wear safety goggles cause when your through the manifold the shavings will get ya

 

[BHolm]

I understand that Cummins reccomends only post turbo installations. The thinking, and it seems to make sense, is that if the probe breaks it will ruin the turbo.



If you are installing directly before the turbo what would be the problem with the seemingly safer post turbo install? I see the point in drilling at the number 5 cylinder outlet as that is supposedly the "hot spot" in the system but if you are measuring after all the exhaust is mixed anyway why not go post turbo? If post turbo you don't have to be concerned about the shavings from drilling either.



I haven't done any boost or pyro gauge installs and my trucks are stock. I was just wondering what the reasoning was that you much more experienced guys use?

 

[Kennywould]

If it's post turbo, I believe you have to add 300 degrees to the reading, I build and run big block chev motors in boats and its better to have as close to correct readings, because you tend to forget the addition, you can walk a fine line to melt down on aluminum pistons, been there done that, ain't no fun! If you check your probe once a year I doubt you would have a problem, it takes a lot of heat to melt one!

 

[RTuvell]

I understand that Cummins recommends only post turbo installations. The thinking, and it seems to make sense, is that if the probe breaks it will ruin the turbo.

I have heard this concern expressed before and in concept it makes sense, but I've never heard of an actual report that an EGT probe failed and damaged a turbo. Is this one of those "urban myths"?

I see the point in drilling (installing the EGT probe) at the number 5 cylinder outlet as that is supposedly the "hot spot" in the system .....

In my mind this makes the most sense for positioning the EGT probe so you can measure the exhaust gas temperature at its highest point. Isn't that the purpose of installing an EGT gauge?



I believe that people positioned their EGT probes right above the turbo or near the number 3 cylinder outlet before it became widely known that the highest exhaust gas temperatures occurred at the number 5 cylinder outlet.

 

[nickleinonen]

I have heard this concern expressed before and in concept it makes sense, but I've never heard of an actual report that an EGT probe failed and damaged a turbo. Is this one of those "urban myths"?

while i'd not really like a failed turbo from probe failure, i'd rather have that then engine damage from over fueling from a slow acting probe post turbo. external engine parts much easier/cheaper to fix than internals...

 

[BHolm]

What happens to the internals when broken turbo blades get blown into the cylinders?



I'm not trying to argue this but, if you pay attention to the post turbo pyro numbers and allow for the slower reaction can't you just back out 10 seconds sooner? It just seems like common sense that if you see the temps going up that you are proactive about controlling them right?

 

[MacHaggis]

I may be exposing my ignorance here,

but I'm thinking IF the probe should break up and drop into the turbo and tear up the blades, it's on the exhaust side, not the boost side, so I'd question whether we're talking about blowing anything into the engine. Just my immediate reaction. I'm prepared for any correction from ennybody knows more about turbo failures than me. They wouldn't have to know much!

 

[Bertram65]

For stock or lightly modified I think post is fine, post also gives you a more accurate turbo temp for cool down. My truck is stock so I am not worried about hurting the engine when towing, I am under the max tow rating for my truck. The EGT guage is just nice to have and interesting to see how RPM and load effect EGT temp, when towing I can lug it at 1900 RPM and watch the EGTs go to 900 or drop to 3rd and 2400 RPM and lower the EGT to 700. It is nice for cooldown, sometimes it can take a few minutes to get down to around 300. I have a couple pictures in my reader rig of probe location.

 

[Kennywould]

What happens to the internals when broken turbo blades get blown into the cylinders?



I'm not trying to argue this but, if you pay attention to the post turbo pyro numbers and allow for the slower reaction can't you just back out 10 seconds sooner? It just seems like common sense that if you see the temps going up that you are proactive about controlling them right?

No argument here, but this happened to me, this is a forged aluminum piston out of my BBC motor not diesel but the result speaks for itself! I have the pyro probes in the collectors and I saw the 1450, it was too late!



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:{ :{ :{

 

[BHolm]

My mistake on the stuff getting into the engine. I forgot to seperate the intake and exhaust sides in my brain



Of course Kennys pic shows that it could happen I guess. That would have to have been a pretty catostrophic turbo failure :{

 

[MacHaggis]

I think Kenny's point with the pic is that you don't need to look away from the gauge for long for EGTs to creep up. The pic is an overheated aluminum piston, not "spare parts" damage.

 

[RTuvell]

I think Kenny's point with the pic is that you don't need to look away from the gauge for long for EGTs to creep up.

I don't have an EGT gauge yet but I will definitely be going with an EGT gauge that has the option of an audible warning for any temperature you set so that I don't have to constantly keep an eye on the gauge.

 

[Kennywould]

I think Kenny's point with the pic is that you don't need to look away from the gauge for long for EGTs to creep up. The pic is an overheated aluminum piston, not "spare parts" damage.

Exactly my point, when your not staring at the gauge things happen real fast, which if your probe is after the turbo, you aren't looking at the gauge, then you see a problem, your looking at 1300 and your brain hasn't added the 300 or whatever degrees, maybe it's too late, damage done! Maybe a gauge should be made where 1100 is the red line, just for the after turbo setup, IMO