Questions running threw my head..

[bgilbert]

I've had some questions running threw my head lately, that I know probly have been covered in the past, and I don't like cluttering up the 1st page and pushing other members important questions/problems back for my off the top of my head ?'s.



That said, I'll just shoot.

1: What is the maximum safe boost for stock head gasket? Or which is the weaker of the two, the stock head gasket or stock turbo?

2: Our any 1st genners upgrading driveshaft yokes and or u-joints? I've been searching in the competetion forum about 2nd genners upgrading. I dont even know what model or series yokes are on our 1st gens.

3: O-ringing, is that o-ringing the head or the block?

4: Studding the head, am I correct saying using 12mm studs, one doesnt have to have the block retapped for bigger thread sizes? If so, any advantage of using the 12mm studs over new stock head bolts? Or would one say if you were to stud the head, might as well go all the way to the bigger size? -btw, I might be wrong on some of this info, bear with me pls.

EDIT 5: HX-40,HX-50, HX-55 what are their original application/off of? What fuel level/hp are they good at?



Ok enough for now, as I said some of my terminology may be off, and my vocabulary isnt the greatest- thats whats truck driving and talking on the cb will do to ya-... come on back, i hear ya, 4, over. tia, Bill

 

[phillips5]

To my experince of blowing several headgaskets right between 2 adjasent cylenders every time. Old haedgaskets before the 91. 5 change could only hold 28 and if the gasket was replaced after 91. 5 or the truck is 91. 5 or newer 35 psi if not more. It hapened like clock work If I beet the truck and hit 30 or so psi the very next day the truck was misfifing and the boost guage was bouncing like crazy. Until 91. 5 and now that gasket is still in there and I hit 35 psi a lot a couple of hundred thousand miles worth

 

[dpuckett]

The marine HG is good for 40+; BTDT. On a nonIC, 25 is the most I'd go with either stock HG or turbo. The H1C starts to lose efficiency after that point.

I wouldnt worry about the U-joints unless you get to 400 hp, which you wont do w/o an intercooler, some BIG sticks, and turbo upgradres. Just be sure to grease them every oil change. I forgot a few changes on my pickup, and it burned up the rear one. I'm greasing them every change now.

stock replacement head bolts should be good enough, if you even need them. At 255K, mine hadnt stretched, or if they had, it was VERY little, and Very evenly. I dont think you need to O-ring or stud the head, unless you plan to run some serious boost pressures (50+ psi). BUT getting the head ported while it is off may not be too bad an idea.

5. I know the HX40 is originally off the C series 8. 3l. (H1E, H2_ are also on some C8. 3s) The others are from a host of apps from 450-550hp- from the L10, M11, and N14 possibly the K19, though I'd think theyd get a bigger charger. I know the HX60 is on some ISX (15L) 600hp applications.



Daniel

 

[sparks57]

1. Bah, I'm running 30 and my head gasket is fine... let's not forget intercooler boots guys... they blow too.



2. I am currently looking into upgrading u-joints to the bigger size. It'll run about $1500 for a long bed.



3. Ussualy the block.



4. Head studs are best because they are stronger and don't stretch like stock bolts.



As for turbos... not sure of original apps... I do know some of them come from the bigger industrial and automotive cummins engines. The 40 is good to about 450hp, the 50 I don't know, and the 55 seems to hold a lot of power, but has a failure problem.

 

[dpuckett]

CB, expand on the upgrades for the driveshafts and u-joints. I'm a bit curious, myself, as I plan within the next month to start towing again. Not saying I need to upgrade just yet, but I'd like some info to counter the guy behind the counter trying to sell me what I dont need...

What do you know about the failures of the 55s? Dont forget, guys, that if you go much over a HX40, (single, not twins) you get incredible lag, low end smoke, and it isnt recommended for towing or heavy hauling. Now for the hauling CB wants to do, they'll do

-DP

 

[sparks57]

The upgrade is going from the stock u-joints to the next size up. It's really not necessary unless you are going to pull real heavy with a lot of power. Mostly something sled pullers do.



All I know about the 55 is one guy blew like 3 of them in a row...



As for my choice of turbo... I'd go with twins if I outgrow just a pdr 40. Then I could use the 40 in the twins. And Daniel is correct (OMG! ) anything above the 40 is starting to get too big... but the pdr 40 in it's self is a very quick turbo if tuned right.



One thing about the HX-40 is that a lot of people expect too much from them, and grenade them. The HX-40 should be waste gated so it does not see more than 40 psi.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

bgilbert,



Just south of you here on Hwy 41...



4. Studs have a much greater clamping force than bolts, all else being equal, so they would hold greater compression pressures. The head bolts in the 5. 9 are 12mm so tapping would not be necessary; however, every time the head bolts are removed a blind tap should be used to clean the threads for a precise torque reading when installing. Having said all that, the stock head bolts in original condition will rein in many horses, probably more than a VE pump can put out?



Trent

 

[MMiller]

PDR has oringed heads. the studs would be a good investment, 7X the houlding strength. 12mm is the size of stock holes. Hasley machine sells 14mm for extreme applications 80 psi+ boost!!! PDR recommended to me to install new headbolts with the last head gasket. 3 of my bolts(short ones!) were loose at dissasembly. I had $60 in headbolts, but forgot the bolts that hold down the rockers.



$1500 to upsize ujoints? I would just upsize the rear on a 4X. I haven't priced this conversoion, as I haven't had any problems there yet. IMO I think the dana 70 should be switched out before the ujoints. I have ruined the ring and pinion, several sets of tires, but replacing the ujoints every other year is adequate for me. But you would need two new yokes, and then have a new shaft made. I would think you would have $200 max in yolks and $300 in a new shaft( more with extended cab) if you found the right shop. I have had good luck with Sadler powertrain out here in easter IA, and Certified Power train in Central/norther IA. I have bought plenty of yokes, shafts, ujoints in the last 7 years of mud racing, truck pulling, and fourwheeling in my old truck. Heck, I had $300+ in r&p. I do my own installs though too.



Michael

 

[sparks57]

Originally posted by redbadge

the stock head bolts in original condition will rein in many horses, probably more than a VE pump can put out?



Trent

You just wait and see... .

Originally posted by MMiller

IMO I think the dana 70 should be switched out before the ujoints.

Definately true, our rear ends are pretty weak! :-laf



But anyways, one area I still need to research on is o-ringing, c-ringing, etc. Apparently the head or the block can be o-ringed, but I saw some pics of a scheid engine having the block o-ringed... so I assumed that that was the best way.

 

[nascar mark]

Some good info here and some so, so info.



1st- The stock head gasket can go anywhere between 10psi and up. The stock H1C is out of its realm by 30psi but will stay together past this psi for some time.



Most head gaskets will hold 45psi max without O-ringing. Comes down to time, heat cycles, head bolt stretch and how hard you get on the go peddle before the engine reaches approx 140deg's with head gasket alone. Its anyone's guess when the stock H1C will give up the ghost. It will die a slow death pushing it beyond 30 psi.



2nd- The 1st gen U-joints are stronger then the 2nd gen 3/4 ton trucks and look to be about the same strength as the 1 tons.

The Dana 70 isn't a bad street axle but the 80 is going to carry the weight and torque better.



3rd- O-ringing is recommended for 45psi to 70psi and can be done to the head or the block or both together if using smaller wire. Most common is the head by far. Why... $



4&5- Michael, Trent and Daniel covered this one good.



Bill,

It comes down to what power your wanting to push and how deep are your pockets.



CB,

Put down the coffee dude.

 

[sparks57]

Coffee? ME??? Never! :-laf



Thanks for the info Mark, as always, you've added some valuable insight.



I thought the first and second gens had the same sized u-joints? Can you please elaborate on the u-joint issue?

 

[paccool]

If you are concerned about the U joints, make sure the ones you use do not have the zerk fittings. Having the grease holes drilled weakens the joints.



Stan

 

[bgilbert]

Thanks for all the good input guys. With the addition of POD's and turning the fuel up and being non-IC, has got my 30 psi boost gauge pegging before WOT. So all these issues are going thru my head, and I want to address them next. I always like to overdue something, I don't care if I'm not pushing that much hp-yet-, I still want to have the assurance that my HG, head, turbo, driveline are going to stay together. I get this attitude from my local diesel shop, (not saying any names) 'well your just an old rusty truck, nobodys doing anything with them, you dont need all that'. I kinda what to have this 'old rusty truck' that screams under the hood, nope I'm not doing body work on it, I'm putting my money under the hood. I think once I get to some higher levels, I'm gonna get a decal made up "Old Rusty Truck" lol.

Lastly, I had the u-joints on rear shaft replaced aways back and not long after, the rear one was shot. Can a shop put u-joints from a gasser Dodge truck in place or you think they didnt grease it? So what kind of replacement u-joint should I get/need? Thanks. Bill

 

[bgilbert]

"If you are concerned about the U joints, make sure the ones you use do not have the zerk fittings"

Stan, zerk fitting? Is that a grease zerk-where you grease it? I was researching this, and was reading about nongreasable u-joints? -Not being hollow or something? Please collaborate. . Bill

 

[RGT]

The grease zerk is the fitting, if you use ujoints with zerks be sure to put the zerk so that it is in compression, it will be less prone to failure that way. For my front axle I got a super heavy duty ujoint that is greased with a pin through one of the caps, much stronger than the kind with zerks and still greasable, I don't know if these style are available for our rears, but seems like they should be, I find when I grease mine every 2-3k miles they are in need.....

 

[RGT]

The grease zerk is the fitting, if you use ujoints with zerks be sure to put the zerk so that it is in compression, it will be less prone to failure that way. For my front axle I got a super heavy duty ujoint that is greased with a pin through one of the caps, much stronger than the kind with zerks and still greasable, I don't know if these style are available for our rears, but seems like they should be, I find when I grease mine every 2-3k miles they are in need.....

 

[GGott]

Hi BGilbert, Good questions! Have had the best service from the sealed Ujoints. The better quality ones are well worth the few extra $ you will pay. We run greasable ones in our log loaders ,and when greased -the grease will go to the sloppiest joint or the one with the broken seal, leaving the others without grease... ... ...

 

[phillips5]

I have 500k with a high percentage of them at 35 psi I have not lost a turbo yet must be lucky. What has accually hapened to the torbos that have gone bad because of over35 psi . Are you guys sure that you are letting them cool down before shutdown. Is it the exhust side or the compresser or the bearings. If it the exaust wheel coming apart I would think it is a heat problem not a boost psi problem.

 

[dpuckett]

U-joints

I'm not too fond of never being able to regrease my U-joints. When I have regularly greased the u-joints, I have had good service life; normally as long as I owned the vehicle. I had to rpelace one recently that I had gone about 10K on a greasing (lot of gravel, dust, etc- and I had overlooked it) and one of the caps was just powder filled. I'll be greasing them every oil change from now on, or at least for a while. I always pump grease into them till I see fresh stuff coming out, then wipe the old cr@p off, and go on my way.

What do you mean by putting the grease zerk/ fitting "in compression?"



Daniel

 

[boatpuller]

To put the fitting in compression means that you have to figure which direction the joint turns and which side is the driving side(the yoke on the rear of trans is the driver the one on the front of drive line would be driven) and make sure that the joint is installed so that when the truck is going forward you are compressing the zerk fitting not trying to pull it apart. Remember the joint is a cross and it can be installed different ways.



Sorry I can't post a picture it would be real easy to see if I could just draw you a pic.



If this doesn't answer your question let me know and I'll try harder.





Caleb