race suspension cont............

[blake underwood]

DB,



Good info. What exactly is the CSS1?



Here come the trolls :-laf !!!

 

[Lorenz]

Sway-A-Way is not closing the doors, thanks for contunuing a false rumor though.



I'll be the first to apoligize for not knowing you had put a cage in your truck since I last saw pictures of it.



Sean

 

[ohnoitsyu]

I've been watching these suspension threads from the sideline for some time (including the very first T-rex post that grow to probably over 26 pages). I ride a dirt bike in Baja - a lot. I've prerun many of the courses (250, 500, and 1000), and have ridden much of it shortly after the races as well. I've seen Kent (KORE) and DesertBull out there as well.



If you haven't seen what these guys are up against before or after the events, then you have no idea. :-{} I'm amazed that ANY four-wheel vehicle clears some of that stuff (quads included). I have visuals in my mind that I can't describe that leave me wondering how any of these vehicles make it. Comparitively, Glamis has basically no unseen obstacles (rocks, sand-covered rocks, logs, holes), and then we can talk about the boobie traps. At Glamis, you know what to expect - sand and sand whoops (and lots of newbies on farm implements [quads] )



For this last Baja 1000, I was chasing with another guy in his 2002 Dodge with stock suspension and 80k miles. That truck was only used for chasing (meaning not for prerunning or driving on the course), and that was the loosest truck I had ever been in. Doing what it takes just to chase has beatin' the snot out of that truck. My old '98, that I though was beat, felt virtually brand new compared to that '02. But my '98 didn't have that much Baja time on it.



Going down and simply cruising around Baja is one thing - hitting race courses is another. Even if I did have the means, I would have no interest to take my truck down there with simply a bolt-on suspension kit. It's so flippin' gnarly (I can't believe I used that word, but there's nothing else). Oh, and for those of you who actually have seen Dust 2 Glory, they didn't even cover how extreme the courses are.

 

[mhuggler]

One thing I gotta know, where are you guys getting the money and/or vacation time to beat up your $40,000 truck at "Baja" or wherever? I was merely following this freakish thread to see if ANY of these suspension systems will save my back en route to work(Pa. highways suck!). Where there any conclusions made yet? I don't need to jump my truck over anything; I,m just tired of hitting the roof everytime I run over a pebble or crack in the road.

 

[JDerbedrossian]

O. K. everybody shake hands now and give each other a hug. Lets get back to making some badass stuff for our trucks.



Jake.

 

[Regcabguy]

O. K. everybody shake hands now and give each other a hug. Lets get back to making some badass stuff for our trucks.



Jake.

AMEN!

 

[JOblenes]

"Okay, so the ego is checked" followed by "I just tell it like it is. " Yeah... Right... No ego there...

Let me paraphrase what I read.

The facts are that Glamis is absolutely tiddly-winks compared to raging in Baja. The two foot whoops for what Lorenz states is "10 of them" is absolutely LAUGHABLE.

You are trying to say Sean's product testing is meaningless.

Several years ago I tested the early T-Rex systems working with Kent and Victor closely and the R&D test locations were the Baja Peninsula... plain and simple because its the real deal.

You are endorsing the Kore products as you have done on many other websites.

Your weekend at Glamis cannot be compared to the countless miles on the Desert Tank testing a multitude of suspension systems including, T-Rex, Skyjacker, KORE and Carli that have ACTUALLY survived my off road antics in Baja.

You are further endorsing Kore products, justifying it by saying that it survives Baja

I tell you this story to EMPHASIZE that Glamis IS NOT Baja - Plain and Simple it's not the same.

... knowing that your suspension manufacturer has their CACA packed tight.

Basically you are saying, implying, insinuating (you choose the word) that Sean's system is not worthy because he has not conquered Baja. Of course irrespective of whether it actually could or not.

... because I've pounded the DOG-SNOT out of my truck testing the best suspensions in the off road industry

You have not tested Lorenz suspension, therefore by association you are saying Kore is the best or among the best (of course because you have tested it) and Sean's is not good because you have not tested it.

Nope... no cheerleading there just a completely impartial opinion about a product that you helped to develop.

Apparently Mr. JOblenes your attention to details are lacking.

No they're not. I never made any claims about your ownership of Kore products or anything else for that matter. I was merely stating an opinion that you came on here just to discredit and malign Sean. An opinion that remains unswayed (believe me I am under no delusions that you care)

You have your facts incorrect

Again, no facts involved here really. The only one with the ego big enough to keep using the phrase "the facts" is you who keeps "telling it like it is" as though there is no correct opinion other than your own.

I don't sell anything, no products, no advertising, no nada...

Now that is stretching the truth a little From the offroad website

From a website that you frequent (bold emphasis added by me):

Desertbull says: Nah, not National Spring! What you need is all about TREX Engineering. Visit them at www.T-RexEngineering.com They have just come out with the latest in Dodge suspension technology. If you want to go fast and fly through the air, T-Rex Engineering is the only way to go. We recently took our first test in the Desert Tank and we raged the Baja Peninsula at 60 miles per hour in the dirt flying cattle guards. More to follow...

No, no advertising there, funny a broken link in the document even has a blank placeholder with the word "Advertisement" in it.



And how about

And so, this month we are featuring nothing other than the KORE Performance Race Suspension System. Featuring the most technologically advanced reservoir shocks in the universe, FOX Racing Shox, and the best engineered aftermarket solid axle Dodge suspension every presented to the motoring public and you have one hell of a suspension system for a OEM truck.

... in the universe... best ever presented... Nope, no advertising there... and look there is even a picture in the articel of the old Kore system with non VR coils and no billet drop blocks (what? and you guys didn't have death wobble? ok that was a cheap shot at the Kore fans, I couldn't resist)

apparently your attention to detail is similiar to our brother Mr. JOblenes...

Now, now... come on lets play nice. Sorry if your inflated machismo doesn't impress me. As a mechanical engineer I just like to dig into the meat of what I am doing. These aftermarket suspensions are quite expensive and I want to be sure I am getting my money's worth and not paying for bling or the vapor type knowledge that some are trying to sell. I do have the knowledge and I like to believe the skills to design my own suspension, but I certainly wouldn't want to invest the time and money to do a one off (that is why we pay Lorenz and Kore to begin with). As a minimum I feel that I can honestly look at other's design and critique it for myself, if they will at least provide the basic characterisitcs of their product.

I was hoping that folks like yourself, with a lot of experience, would have something constructive to say. Maybe some advice on how much travel you need for a certain type of terrain, what spring rates you liked (or used) and how it perfromed on the various types of terrain, were stiff shocks good here, bad there, do you happen to know how much damping you used, you know, useful stuff like that. You are missing a great opportunity here to share some of your experiences, I would honestly like to hear what you have to say, I just have a hard time with so much use of the smilies, especially the bouncy one. My mind and ears are open please talk to us.



Jonathan

 

[ohnoitsyu]

One thing I gotta know, where are you guys getting the money and/or vacation time to beat up your $40,000 truck at "Baja" or wherever? I was merely following this freakish thread to see if ANY of these suspension systems will save my back en route to work(Pa. highways suck!). Where there any conclusions made yet? I don't need to jump my truck over anything; I,m just tired of hitting the roof everytime I run over a pebble or crack in the road.

Most of the current lower-priced offerings from Lorrenz, KORE, Carli, etc (not the normal lift companies, though) will work fine. This discussion is directed toward race-type systems, which are way overkill for your needs. I can likely guarantee that your question won't be accurately discussed here (if so, then the thread was hi-jacked). This thread is directed to those who aggressively drive their trucks offroad.



As for the time to go to Baja, for those of us in So Cal, going to Baja can easily be a day or weekend trip, or longer, if you want.



I can appreciate the aggro discussion - it's in the blood for most racer types. However, it's all talk until the finish line... then it's all excuses for those who weren't there first.

 

[lostronin]

O. K. everybody shake hands now and give each other a hug. Lets get back to making some badass stuff for our trucks. Jake.

Yep... great idea so I'll start with!

Carli's Suspension has conquered the biggest and baddest that Baja has to offer without compromise... . tried and tested in Baja and the deserts of North America.

In that there is sooooo much Kore cool-aid dispensed in these parts it's nice to see confirmation that going with Carli was the right decision.



Funny thing happened today. Was rolling back in from Norco this morning and decided to have a look see at the remnants of an open pit mine that once helped pay the bills around here. I was curious what the place looked like after the plant was dismantled and property returned so some measure of what it once was. While I'm taking said sentimental journey I see down yonder an F250 4x4 security vehicle of some sort that's heading my way at a good clip, rotating red beacon and all. I pretend I don't see him and take off for, although modest or extremely modest by Glamis or Baja standards (take your pick), the roughest **** I could find. Poor guy tried like hell to apprehend my *** but gear was flying all over his cab and he could barely keep control of the vehicle. I'm starting to feel sorry for him, and concerned for his safety as well, so I come about and head back down the hill to see what was up.



No need to recount the initial conversation (lotsa kickin' and cussing though) but in the end he was mighty curious as to how I was able to out run his mighty Ferd so effortlessly.



Can't thank Mr. Carli enough for an ordinary work day that turned out to be fun as hell.



Now when's the next road trip guys...



Chris

 

[Doubleclutch]

Thanks OHNO- that sums it up pretty well. MHUG- you could probably get some relief with local talent by just getting a better progressive spring pack like the K/L kits "mini-pack" for your rear springs. Then tell us how great they are, and we'll get a THREE way going! :-laf

Greg

 

[JOblenes]

I don't need to jump my truck over anything; I,m just tired of hitting the roof everytime I run over a pebble or crack in the road.

Ohno and doubleclutch are probably right. Its funny that I have let myself get sucked into the debates because all of this started off with exactly your same concern. For me it was the secondary highways and logging roads when I am out hunting (though I do do my fair share of trail/mountain offroading (not speed), you can see pics of my truck on the power wagon winch thread). The only reason I am getting into the "race" suspension is that Lorenz cut me a break on the price because I helped him out with an analysis of his towers, otherwise I am pretty much in your situation. I also wanted a little lift.



Perhaps a few comments on the use of your truck would help, i. e. do you tow heavy, carry lots of weight in the bed or 99% of the time you are completely empty. My problem is that I do carry lots of additional weight with the winchs, hydraulics, spare cable, high lift jack, etc. that I carry all of the time then throw in an ATV, chainsaw, trailer, etc. almost every weekend and it precludes me going with a softer spring pack (If I jumped my truck it would be a total yard sale mid-air). In fact I am going with a stiffer pack. Sean did send me a set of his mini-pack springs with my kit and if you want to cover the cost of shipping you can have them for free. Though with customs brokerage and shipping from Canada it may be cheaper to get them from Sean, I don't know. Either way you got first dibs, if not and someone closer wants them let me know (any fellow Albertans reading).



Jonathan

 

[Punkineater]

Man... ..... what a bunch of idiots. I wouldn't buy anything from any of you. Seriously do you guys really think you are putting your products in any kind of positive light whatsoever. This is definitely not the way to "market" your products or yourselves. You all sound like you're 12. Take the BS off the boards and back to the school playground where it belongs. I thought Boardman was bad in and of himself, but it looks like you all attend the same school.

 

[Diesel Dan]

wow,

More word of wisdom from pumpkineater

 

[Doubleclutch]

Hey Jonathan- those roads should be getting smoother now with all the snow you guys must be getting! When I lived in WI, the only time the tires didn't go out of balance was in the winter.

Greg

 

[JOblenes]

Hey Jonathan- those roads should be getting smoother now with all the snow you guys must be getting! When I lived in WI, the only time the tires didn't go out of balance was in the winter.

Greg

We have had really weird weather here this year, the photos of my truck over on the power wagon winch thread were taken this past Saturday, no snow in sight. But it is starting to come down pretty good now. The problem I am having right now is not the tires out of balance, but that the BFG MT's can be down right scary to drive with in today's weather. They are not bad in the snow proper, but on wet ice you have to plan ahead with these heavy trucks if you want to stop.

 

[JOblenes]

So, we have all carried on quite a bit on this thread, not always in the best form (myself included), but overall it has been bareable for me, so now for an actual suspension related question. If all of the folks with valuable input have not been scared/chased off I am wondering in anyone would care to discuss the setup of suspension vis-a-vis bump absorption versus cornering ability. In road racing one of the driving factors in shock settings is weight transfer (how quickly the vehicle will dive into and recover from corners, which combined with the springs affects the corner grip and stability). In offroad racing it seems like they focus a lot on travel to suck up bumps. My question is: are these two types of considerations competing or complimentary interests, i. e. if the setup of the truck is optimized towards straight line whoops does it negatively impact my cornering ability for fast cruizing of the Alberta backwoods dirt roads. Any takers? I guess I am hoping to set the truck up for more of a rally car type setup then an all out desert race with jumps type setup.



Jonathan

 

[VKeller]

Carli Suspension

My husband and I both own 2005 dodge diesels I have a 3/4 ton and he has 1 ton. We both spend most of our time off road and we need trucks that perform well both on and off road. We live in northern Az where there are hundreds of miles of dirt roads. We both have had the Carli suspension installed on our trucks. I can't talk technical stuff but I can tell you what it feels like and I have spent plenty of time off road over the last 20 years to know the difference. This is the greatest suspension system on a dodge diesel that I have experienced. The suspension sucks up everything put in front of it. I don't have to slow down going over any of the rough road I have encountered for fear that I'll be jolted out of my seat or my head slammed against the window . On washboard roads the back tires never leave the ground,even while excelerating up hill and it also corners well, I always feel like I'm in control of the truck. For you guys that hunt or camp, you probably know what it's like to get to camp with your globes or mantles on your lanterns broken or your eggs in your ice chest already scrambled and the whole back of your truck rearranged? Well I do but it doesn't happen with this suspension. I love driving off road and the Carli Suspension makes it really enjoyable. We also had Defiant lightbars installed. Wow! I don't know have we ever drove off road at night without them. They light up the world in front of you, which is a huge safety issue here. We need to see well out in the distance as well as peripherally as we have a healthy population of elk we have to watch for. The ride on the highway and around town is amazing also. There is no compromise with this system, we have the best of both worlds on and off the road. Thanks to Carli Suspension for putting a smile on my face while driving off road, the only things now is I can go too fast. It's hard to believe a truck this big can ride this nice.

 

[CIverson]

We have had really weird weather here this year, the photos of my truck over on the power wagon winch thread were taken this past Saturday, no snow in sight. But it is starting to come down pretty good now. The problem I am having right now is not the tires out of balance, but that the BFG MT's can be down right scary to drive with in today's weather. They are not bad in the snow proper, but on wet ice you have to plan ahead with these heavy trucks if you want to stop.

If you get those BFG MT's siped (little lines cut in the tread) it will make a night and day difference on hardpacked snow and ice.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Welcome to the boards VK. ALWAYS nice to have new blood and views added to those of the crusties. WHAT, you don't race???

Greg

 

[GiesJ]

If you get those BFG MT's siped

Siping works great but if you run on gravel a lot you will chunk the heck out of the tires. My buddy siped his BFG Muds and loved it on the Wyoming ice. He had noticable improvement over the BFG MT as is.