(real) Hot Injectors?

[Greenleaf]

I've been thinking once again... ... ... ... ... .....



If the POD injector (which is nothing more than a Cummins/BOSCH OEM unit) is OEM rated for 190 hp, then why can't I install an injector OEM rated for more ponnies? There are a few.



Then there is the custom injector I can build from a P-Pump injector. Is it possible to use an OEM injector rated at 250 or 325 and swap out the top? Seems to me it would be simple and inexpensive to use a P-Pump injector rated for 300 or more and swap out the top, eh? Or maybe just buy the tip. Talk about cheap. Buy six tips for a 325 HP application and set 'em on my new 160 hp body.



Maybe I'm way off base cuz I know of no one talking about this unless I uncovered some secret and will cause diesel performance shops to loose THOUSDANDS of dollars.



I have an applications manual and it gives me the part numbers to various pumps/HP ratings/CPL/injector combo etc. etc.



GL

 

[sdstriper]

I've been thinking once again... ... ... ... ... .....



If the POD injector (which is nothing more than a Cummins/BOSCH OEM unit) is OEM rated for 190 hp, then why can't I install an injector OEM rated for more ponnies? There are a few.



Then there is the custom injector I can build from a P-Pump injector. Is it possible to use an OEM injector rated at 250 or 325 and swap out the top? Seems to me it would be simple and inexpensive to use a P-Pump injector rated for 300 or more and swap out the top, eh? Or maybe just buy the tip. Talk about cheap. Buy six tips for a 325 HP application and set 'em on my new 160 hp body.



Maybe I'm way off base cuz I know of no one talking about this unless I uncovered some secret and will cause diesel performance shops to loose THOUSDANDS of dollars.



I have an applications manual and it gives me the part numbers to various pumps/HP ratings/CPL/injector combo etc. etc.



GL

How much would it cost to buy one and experiment? Or do they sell in sets?



Ross

 

[Greenleaf]

Buy one what? Injector? You can buy as many as you like.



Like the Lucas LJC6760401 which is a 244 HP OEM injector. It is available in either 9mm or, the very popular 7mm tip. If I order now, I aslo recieve a free Christmas ornament.



When I ask the pump shop there is a long pause... ... ... ... ... ... ..... and all I hear are crickets in the background.



They either DO NOT KNOW or they know, and are not to say anything.



I think it's a cover... ... ... ... .



The last guy I spoke with said this bull... "These engines are designed to operate with a particular injector as outlined in the CPL, and any deviation from this can result in internal engine damage"



That is when I spit my soda pop all over the wall.

 

[daledozer]

Different pop off pressures, spray patterns from what I understand.

 

[cerberusiam]

Maybe I'm way off base cuz I know of no one talking about this unless I uncovered some secret and will cause diesel performance shops to loose THOUSDANDS of dollars.

Oh, your definitely going down the right road. :-laf The 370 marine injector tips will fit right on a stock IC injector and work great. A little less flow than the POD's but quite adequate. A little work on the tips and they will flow just fine.



I now of several places that will do the injector tps for a very reasonable price and they will tell you that when you talk to them.

Different pop off pressures, spray patterns from what I understand.

Spray patterns are the marine setting, like the POD's. Pop pressures are the same as you use the same body and just change tips.

 

[sdstriper]

Scott, I meant to buy one to play with. You and cerberusiam answered my not-so-clear question and the point I was getting at. So you could put them together yourself then build one of those homemade injector pop pressure testers and play with them until you get an optimal pattern or flow?

 

[CSchafer]

I think the pod is acctually like 390hp and I know that they are bigger than the 370 so I guess what are you looking for? A cleaner injector can be had with the edm'd tips cut with the right pattern. There are people doing this now for less money than pod's. Daledozer just bought some and I'm sure he will be reporting on them soon and I plan on getting some custom units cut very large with my tax return.

 

[MBergman]

The same idea has crossed my mind several times. Why can't some mixing and matching be done to save ourselves some $$$. I don't want the smoke of the POD's, but I would like the power with a better spray pattern.

DPPI sells some inexpensive 1st gen injectors that were mentioned on an earlier post, and nobody knew what they were. They are Bosch 432133899, and advertised as a 50hp injector. Not sure how they compare to a 185 or 190 injector, but for the price, I may try those first and change the tips at a later date. Seems like just about Bosch part number is mystery on the net.

 

[Greenleaf]

I think the pod is acctually like 390hp

What is that refering to? In the manual it is listed as the 190 HP injector for CPL # 940.



I have not yet located the 432-133-899. I'm looking.

 

[tugboatphil]

Maybe I'm way off base cuz I know of no one talking about this unless I uncovered some secret and will cause diesel performance shops to loose THOUSANDS of dollars.

Scott,



At this very moment the Diesel Police have you under surveillance.

 

[Greenleaf]

Have you seen the movie Minority Report ? That is what this place is beginning to look like.



Guys, I'm not after a clean burn. I just want to locate some performance unit's that we as frugal minded individuals, can build at home and not pay for a complete injector let alone the $1,000+ charged for a high-perf. set.



Gotta go... the robot spiders have found me.

 

[sdstriper]

Guys, I'm not after a clean burn. I just want to locate some performance unit's that we as frugal minded individuals, can build at home and not pay for a complete injector let alone the $1,000+ charged for a high-perf. set.

Now that's what I like to hear!

 

[dpuckett]

GL-

I still have JLEONAD's Frankenjectors- 4 hole nonIC stock with a HUGE 5th hole EDMed into them. Guy that reset them said they flow a LOT of fuel.



I am kind of like Scott- what is wrong with people going through the books and finding stuff that may work for their intended aplication? I had a set of EDMs that I was marginally impressed with- they smoked like a coal burning steam engine up a grade, though they did add some power. I would have probably been just as well off with PODs.



I can also understand the shops' perspective- many of them did countless hours of dyno time and months, even years of R&D to improve over the stock (compromise of cost and performance) design, and want to recoup some of that effort and expense. But, if you are going to promise 3mpg and 50 ponies, back it up.



Daniel

 

[bgilbert]

Aren't new tips like $60 each? Isn't the biggest B series rating 370hp? Folks took them 370 injectors, removed the tips, or whatever swapped em onto a 1st gen injector body and results yielded less HP or flow rate than the cheaply readily available Lucas POD's. IIRC POD's are 4 hole @. 012, 370's are 5 hole @. 012, but yet flow less than POD's and as far as spray pattern, who knows which one matches our pistons better.

Like the Lucas LJC6760401 which is a 244 HP OEM injector.

I would be interested in this one. Was it designed for use with a VE or other rotary pump or inline? Pop pressure, hole size, number etc. How bout you buy a set and report back to us:-laf.

 

[Greenleaf]

A Lucas CAV injection pump. Same as the POD injector. However, a different CPL of course.

 

[dpuckett]

Though the highest power rating may be 370hp, that doesnt mean they used the biggest injector in it- pump output pressure affects fuel getting into the cylinders, too. I. E. a set of 2nd Gen 215hp injectors wont flow the same as stock 160 injectors from a 1st Gen, (all else being equal) due to output differences in the pumps. I believe the CAV pump was no shrimp, either, though not quite as big as the P7100.



DP

 

[cerberusiam]

Guys, I'm not after a clean burn. I just want to locate some performance unit's that we as frugal minded individuals, can build at home and not pay for a complete injector let alone the $1,000+ charged for a high-perf. set.

The 370 Marine injector tips are about your best bet. IIRC, they are about a 50 hp upgrade on a stock fuel system. Turn up the fuel, hone them out, and the limit is ... ... . ???



The HP ratings on most of these are worthless as they assume a setting that matches a CPL. Yeah, like most of our truck have seen THAT in a while. :-laf



The HP ratings for the 2nd gen injectors are equally worthless as they assume quite a bit more flow than the VE is capable of without some major tuning, and, the 2nd gen bodies are different like the POD's so flow rates are completely different between them.

 

[daledozer]

I am getting some customized 370s next week. I was talking to Chuck at New Era Diesel Perf. and told him how much I could get PODs for, and he recomended these 370s which are slightly cheeper, and are supposed to have a better spray pattern than the PODs, and from what I understand, these are going to be pretty darn close in power.

As for what GL is saying, I like your thinking Scott, but I think it would be hard to get the tips, or injectors, and have someone cut them for you, for a reasonable price. Or am I not understanding?

 

[PToombs]

When you guys are done beatin' this to death, just tell me where to buy the 500 hp injectors for $400! :-laf

 

[JLEONARD]

CAV pump was no shrimp, either, though not quite as big as the P7100.

In marine applications the CAV pump was/is used for the 210/220 hp version and maybe some 250 hp models. Most of the older 250 and 300 versions used the Mitsubishi pump.

Modern 270 thru 370 hp versions are P pumped.

The latest is a 380 hp model, and I'm not sure what it has for a pump.

I still have JLEONARD's Frankenjectors- 4 hole nonIC stock with a HUGE 5th hole EDMed into them. Guy that reset them said they flow a LOT of fuel.

... too bad the 1st one (the "set up part") had such a large hole. That set would probably yield the smoke that GL longs for. :-laf