Realistic Max GCVW

[MAshley]

Truck info



2006 4X4

3500 DRW

Quad Cab

6 Speed Manual

3. 73 rear ends

Oo.

I currently tip the scales at 23,800LBS with a bumper pull trailer. My goal it to move to a gooseneck for increased trailer bed space and the added weight carrying capacity afforded by a gooseneck. I spoke to a weigh master “guy behind the glass at a scale house” and he said with my current setup he won’t have a care in the world about me until I’m at 64K lbs across the scales. :--) But I don’t’ think the brakes or clutch will hold that much.



I’m looking to find out what others are doing, what issues I need to be aware of past the 26,001 lbs,



I might add another 10K to 15K lbs + difference in pull style trailer to gooseneck,…… Can I …. ? Basically I’ll get licensed for 34K



At what point does the weight really start to destroy things. :{



Options I should look for in a hitch



Options I should look for in a trailer besides brakes.



Any advice you like to share is also great,



I don’t want to start any Flame wars and such but more of looking for useful info



Thanks

David

 

[Mundgyver]

Goose neck and a exhaust brake work very well. What does the book say for your GVW combined. Sounds like you need a baby Freightliner

 

[PatrickCampbell]

I would not want to do it but you will not be the first. B&W gooseneck hitch is rated to 30,000 lbs. I want to say that is gross trailer weight not gross combination weight, but I can't remember.



Figure a 26,000 lb trailer (34000 - 8000 truck) will give you a 6500# pin weight. You would be right around your rear GAWR. Maybe 10% of that 6500# will go to your front axle... so you'd be right around your front GAWR too.



I would get an exhaust brake and the largest trailer brakes you can get. Something like 3 7000# axles or more.

 

[Mundgyver]

I have the B&W turn over and it is rated for 30,000. It works superb. I have been at 23,000 with no problems.

 

[dmhollister]

I’m looking to find out what others are doing, what issues I need to be aware of past the 26,001 lbs,

One thing to consider is that a CDL license is required for a vehicle that is 26,001 lbs.

 

[obert]

In OH were supposed to have CDL for any thing RATED to carry over 26001#. regaurdless of actual weight at the time the DOT is standing there growling at you.



Our hilsboro 700 with thandem 10k axles is a great fit to my truck. Only a 23. 5k rating-- plenty for us, and I think the drums are 13x3. 5 Add the gvw's makes a little over 32k-- I need a CDL... ...

 

[Gaylord]

Hi David. First things first. I'm not sure from your post if the 23,800# is the truck and the trailer. What is the GCWR for your truck? GCWR is the weight of the truck + the weight of the trailer. GCWR is determined by the manufacturer. Exceeding this means that you are outside the design parameters of the truck. Towing weights like you stated means that you need a truck that is rated for such GCW. A mid range truck or tractor would be a much better choice, as you approach the GCWR. Which brings us to the 26,001# thing. When is a truck considered a commercial vehicle? Anytime the GVWR is 26,001# or more as per the DOT and thus requires a CDL (commercial driver's license) to operate. Don't confuse this with commercial license fees imposed by the state. Here in CA the state requires commercial fees on half-ton pickups and vans, but they are not commercial vehicles by defination, thus no CDLs to operate and not stopping at the scales. However some states require stopping at the scales for pickups. There are many trucks out there towing loads that the truck is not rated to tow and they seem to do so with impunity, until they are involved in an accident... ... then you get into the realm of "pleasure driving" insurance vs commercial insurance. Ask any 18 wheeler what his insurance costs are and you will be astounded. HTH

 

[jnelson]

I am regularly over 23K combined. I do not haul no more than 15,000# on my trailer (36ft GN w/ dual 10,000# dexters). To me anything over 30,000# on a continual basis is just to hard on the equipment. I am registered at 11,500 on the truck and 22,200 on my trailer. You can buy as much weight as you want on your registration but they can get you for being over on your tire rating. My 8 tires on my trailer add up to around 22,200 +-.



. 02

 

[MAshley]

Ok Maybe I should have stated that I allready have a CDL Class A. So I'm not worried about that part of the aspect. Also the 23,800 is what I weigh... yes I need a diet From what I gather I may need to get a DOT #, Also by the sounds of things adding another tractor may not be to wise, especially going accross scales and such. One thing that I find hard to get solid info on is what Dodge states as a Max GCVWR as its not on the truck anywhere that I can find.



David

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Mashley GCWR... there is what Dodge says which is meaningless and then there is how DOT does it:



GCWR is a calculated number taken by adding the GVWR of your truck + the GVWR of your trailer.



So if you have a 20K GVWR trailer and a 12K GVWR truck, you have 32K. But you still need to stay within the tire/axle limits on each axle.



Some people say you have to stay within the GVW of the truck and GVW of trailer AND tire/axle limits of all axles, but I don't know whether or not that is really enforced.



So if your rear GAWR is 9000 lbs, your truck rear end weighs say 3000 lbs, leaves you 6000 lbs of pin weight * 4 for a 25% pin weight and 75% of the trailer weight on the trailer axles = 24,000 lbs trailer weight... you could pull a 24000 lbs trailer. That is staying within your GAWR's but not your truck GVWR.



If you wanted to stay within the GVWR of the truck... 12200 GVWR - 8000 lbs truck weight = 4200 * 4 for 25% pin weight = 16800 lbs. trailer.

 

[Gaylord]

I disagree with Patrick. GCWR is NOT taken by adding the GVWR of the truck & trailer and combining them. GCWR is given by the manufacturer for each specific truck, as there are many variables. Like 3/4 ton, 1 ton, SRW, DRW, type of transmission, type of rear end, rear end ratio, engine type, engine size, brake sizes front & rear etc. I do not know where Dodge publishes these figures, but all manufacturers do. Once you have this figure, you take the actual weight of the truck (fully fueld and loaded as you would use it) and subtract this weight from the GCWR and now you have the manufacturer's allowed trailer weight. If using a GN or 5th wh. hitch, now you have to be sure that you do not exceed the axle rating of the truck AND the tire load limits on this axle. As I stated before, if you exceed these limits you are outside the design parameters of the manufacturer and will, sooner or later, fail by design.



As to what is enforced.....completely different subject. I can assure you that axle weights and allowable limits on tires are enforced at most state scales. Being over the GCWR is seldom enforced..... until you have an accident and the mouth pieces get involved.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Manufacturer's GCWR takes into a lot of things that have nothing to do with safety and a lot to do with them having a warranty to cover...



Alternatively, under the regulatory definition of GCWR, the court must add the "GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon. " 49 CFR § 390. 5

 

[macdaddy]

Wow!!!!!!!

Mashley GCWR... there is what Dodge says which is meaningless and then there is how DOT does it:



GCWR is a calculated number taken by adding the GVWR of your truck + the GVWR of your trailer.



So if you have a 20K GVWR trailer and a 12K GVWR truck, you have 32K. But you still need to stay within the tire/axle limits on each axle.



Some people say you have to stay within the GVW of the truck and GVW of trailer AND tire/axle limits of all axles, but I don't know whether or not that is really enforced.



So if your rear GAWR is 9000 lbs, your truck rear end weighs say 3000 lbs, leaves you 6000 lbs of pin weight * 4 for a 25% pin weight and 75% of the trailer weight on the trailer axles = 24,000 lbs trailer weight... you could pull a 24000 lbs trailer. That is staying within your GAWR's but not your truck GVWR.



If you wanted to stay within the GVWR of the truck... 12200 GVWR - 8000 lbs truck weight = 4200 * 4 for 25% pin weight = 16800 lbs. trailer.

Whered you get that info cowboy????. On the back of a serial box?.



Mac

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Which info are you questioning



Like I said I didn't say I would do it but that is staying within the GAWRs of truck and trailer...



With my formula for staying within the GVW and GAWRs of both truck/trailer it is not even debatable.



Ify our GVWR is 12200-8000 truck weight=4200 lbs. payload * 4 for 25% pin weight=16800 GVW trailer weight +8000 lbs truck weight = 24800 gross weight. This is legal in every aspect. The other aspect is completely debatable since he would be going over the GVW of the truck.

 

[macdaddy]

Gcwr

Which info are you questioning

Gaylord is correct.



GCWR=(Gross Combined Weight Rating). Total allowable weight that any vehicle (Tow vehicle+Towed weight)can handle.



Period.



It is clearly defined in any tow vehicle towing guide.



It's mathematical conclusions like you are coming up with that is causing allot of accidents and premature wear on any and all tow vehicles.



Do a search this is one of the most talked about threads here on the TDR.



Sorry about the flame



Mac

 

[RMcCulloch]

Gaylord is correct.



GCWR=(Gross Combined Weight Rating). Total allowable weight that any vehicle (Tow vehicle+Towed weight)can handle.



Period.



It is clearly defined in any tow vehicle towing guide.



It's mathematical conclusions like you are coming up with that is causing allot of accidents and premature wear on any and all tow vehicles.



Do a search this is one of the most talked about threads here on the TDR.



Sorry about the flame



Mac

The problem, here, is that the GCWR specified by the manufacturer IS NOT RECOGNIZED by Law Enforcement and has no meaning except when the manufacturer is attempting to get out of providing Warranty Coverage for a repair. At best, it is an indicator of tow vehicle performance while towing and, at worst, is just another bit of propaganda.



Law Enforcement (and the various Legislatures) only recognize GVWR - be it truck, trailer, sled, or any other towed vehicle - and, as stated previously, add the GVWRs of the towing and towed vehicles to determine the Combined weight.



For example: my bone-stock truck [see sig] suffers ~ 10-seconds in the quarter when pulling my 7-ton fifth-wheel. Since I'm pulling at the D/C-specified GCWR, this "performance-defined" figure may simply be defined by the increase of 1/4-mile accelleration by ~10 seconds.



According to LE, my Combined Weight is 26,100 since the truck's GVWR is 12. 000 and the trailer's GVWR is 14,100 regardless of what D/C says.



I'd strongly suggest calling up the nearest Drivers' License office and asking THEM.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Gaylord is correct.





It's mathematical conclusions like you are coming up with that is causing allot of accidents and premature wear on any and all tow vehicles.





Mac

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?section=390.5



Of course, Daimler does have its bogus GCWR but the law does not have the 2001 Dodge Towing guide? No! Who does? Hell I don't even have it. Does dodge even have it??? Surely if you were brought to court they could dig this up SOMEWHERE but on the road, the reality is GVW+GVW.



CFR 49 390. 5: "Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) motor vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon. "

 

[CUMMINZ]

I Like The Way Macdaddy Spelled "serial Box"... .....

 

[klenger]

My uneducated feeling on the whole weight issue is, if it's not posted on the door sticker, then it's not a published spec and cannot be enforced.



Beyond that, my research shows that the only weights that the real weight cops are interested in is lbs/tire width and is intended to keep road damage to a minimum from over weight trucks.

 

[glav]

Boy howdy!! Patrick and Gaylord both have good comments. Mac is right this subject has been discussed a lot on this website. I too have wrestled with this question for some time. I have wondered what numbers the weight enforcement people would use or what process the DOT would use to enforce such weight ratings. I can agree with Patrick is that DOT will have their way to judge us by weight. But the lawyers and manufacturers scare me if you get involved in an accident and are over some weight limit. Then if you want to stay legal in both camps get a MDT. Now you got the added cost of the vehichle, insurance, and fuel. I have not had many comments from MDT owners about solo touring in their MDTs. Obvisously parking can be a problem, but with my 1 ton dually I park in the far out places in the shopping malls already.

What to do, what to do!!