Realistic Max GCVW

[obert]

This threads mood has changed... .

 

[navyjoe]

3500 rear end on a 2500 !!!!

OK guys, I looked for input on this in the forum and found nothing concerning dually conversions.



I'm buying a larger Lance camper, an 1130. I weighs around 3500 loaded. I have a 98 12 valve 2500 Quad cab with AirLift bags, oversized tires rated at 3415# each. I can carry the load with 600 to 800# to spare on the tires.



Jeff Garmon in Atlanta has my engine running GOOD!, Suncoast in Fla. has my Tyranny up to snuff. I like my truck, only has 154000 miles on it and my wife thinks its real comfortable to ride in. That last item is the MOST important one!



I would think a Dually would handle it better. I can put a used 3500 rear end in this rig for about $1000 plus fenderwell extensions. What do you think about that? Have you heard of any problems going this route?



PS I didn't really know were to post this. Move it if necessary.



Thanks, now blast away!!! Oo.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Your truck without the lance on the rear end is about 2500 lbs max. 3415*2=6830 - 2500 lbs base weight = 4330 lbs. left over. Run them at 80 psi and you should be OK. I don't know how those campers "load" but I would try to load it as evenly as possible front/rear.



Dually can definitely not hurt. You can get a dually conversion kit instead of getting a dually axle. I bought a kit from ArrowCraft for about 1100 shipped including 7 steel wheels and front/rear adapters. another 700 bucks and I had 7 brand new tires. I do not have a bed so no fender flares for me.

 

[navyjoe]

Thanks for the lead. Apparently then you are runing the same wheel size all around? I have been wondering about how to handle a spare. Are all wheels inter-changable?

 

[PatrickCampbell]

You can either just convert the rear, but then you would need 2 spares (Or you could just not carry a spare for the rear, and ride on 3 tires until you find a place to get a new one... which to be honest with you I don't think is a big deal... I've been driving around with no spare for a while), or if you get the whole kit, the wheels are all identical so you have the ability to rotate front to rear and only carry 1 spare.



I bought straight from ArrowCraft ... dug up my invoice and it was 1100 including shipping for 7 steel wheels and both front and rear adapters and hardware (all new lug nuts).



http://www.arrowcraft.com/arrowcraft.php?pageid=products&subpid=catalog&category=3&pagenumber=1



Here's a few pics - warning truck is ugly! You can get "simulators" to make the wheels look nicer... or just get alloy wheels.



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[Cattletrkr]

Last night I had 22K of cattle in the trailer. P/U and trlr empty weigh in at about 15,500. That put me at about 37,500#. That's nothing out of the ordinary. Average load is a little less than that and the heaviest is about a ton more. I've got extra springs on the rear along with airbags. My truck is licensed at 18K and trlr at 21K.



I drive that down the freeway at 70mph when conditions allow me to. I usually try to stay under 60mph on smaller roads. That way I stay in 5th, can't pull it at 60mph in 6th.



Those weights are with my new trailer, which is slightly bigger than the last one. Most of the 102K on my truck were with the old trailer that averaged a ton or so less. No big repairs yet. I drive like a gramma with the trailer. Empty on the weekends is play time. Gotta blow the carbon (soot?) out...



Per the supervisor at the MN DOT hotline, MNDOT CANNOT enforce a manufactures stated weight rating. They can only enforce road limits and tire limits. That's good because with above mentioned 22K of cattle, I'm approx 2K over what my trailer axles are rated for. I'm a ways away from tire ratings so I'm OK there.



I've got incredible stopping power. 10K axles with elec/hyd brakes. I usually have my controller set to read less than 7-out of 14 I think. Stopping that kind of weight is not a problem. Throw the BD brake into the equation and I'm safer than most guys pulling their "heavy 5'er".



Here's the important part to the thread starter, quoted from above. "No big repairs yet. "

 

[navyjoe]

Wow, thats loading her up! Thanks for the pictures!



If I understand correctly your truck was orginally a 2500 wasn't it? I beleve the 2500 has a smaller rear end than a 3500 which apparently has caused you no trouble with such a load.



What I currently have a 4:11 ratio wich makes mountain towing easy but since I have an Automatic it makes it impossible to tow in 3rd gear on the highway. This other rearend is a 3:55 which means I could tow in 3rd if I needed to and get a little better Fuel milage when solo. I would also assume that 3500 rearend would have bigger brakes and bearings?? One other drawback to a 3:55 is the GCWR is reduced a little I guess due to the Automatic.



You mentioned elec/hyd brakes on the trailer. Did they come that way? I also have a 12000# fifthwheel with just Elec. brakes - they are miserable!

 

[nps]

If I understand correctly your truck was orginally a 2500 wasn't it? I beleve the 2500 has a smaller rear end than a 3500 which apparently has caused you no trouble with such a load.

He has a Dana 80 hybrind because his truck started out as a HO/6 speed. The 3500 has a Dana 80. So the meatball of his truck is the same as a 3500.



Your rear is a Dana 70 with an auto. So the compare is not apples to apples- you have the smaller rear end and he doesn't.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I frequently see drivers run stopsigns, speed, and fail to make proper signals for lane changes - no legal issues UNTIL they get caught by a LEO or involved in a accident!



Comments as to what you SAW someone do - or manage to get away with yourself have no bearing on what is reasonable, proper, or legal.



Our 24 ft 5er has a WEIGHED pin weight of 1200 lbs. My in-bed hitch weighs about 100 lbs, and my 50 gallon fuel/tool box adds another 500 lbs or so to the mix - for a total bed weight of about 1800 lbs - and that is without passengers and miscellaneous other camping gear added in. My truck itself weighs 7000 lbs, according to the local DOT scale.



As I read and understand the GVWR for my truck, it is rated at 8800 lbs total - subtract the 7000 lbs the truck weighs, and that leaves 1800 lbs for cargo - right about where I am with a 7000 lb, 24 ft 5th wheel!



I'm well under the GCWR for my truck, even though I'm already at the ragged edge of my truck's GVWR.



In a campground, around a campfire, you probably will get away with (maybe even applauded!) bragging about hauling a 33 ft rig on a truck like mine, with a hitch weight up around 2500 lbs - but how loud would you brag in a court of law, perhaps in the company of relatives of the folks you killed or maimed?



The legal consequences, to me, simply aren't worth it - as one of the "senile older coots" mentioned earlier, my reflexes and eyesight just aren't what they used to be. And it seems pretty selfish for ME to place others at deliberate risk simply so I can indulge myself in my chosen pastime - at the same time twisting rationality as a tool to excuse what I am doing.



If my truck is clearly inadequate and unsafe for my desired load, I'll park it - and God help me if I deliberately endanger my equipment, or the lives and equipment of others simply to indulge my own selfish wants.



The bottom line message for this thread, and the previous dozens like it is, get enough truck for the load, and the question doesn't even need to be asked or debated.

 

[navyjoe]

Thanks nps. I believe that answered one of my questions. Putting in a 3500 rearend would just give me a bigger better package all around.



How do you like towing with the 3:54 rearend? I know you have the 24V engine and it has about 500 more usable RPM than my 12V. Have you ever noticed what your RPM is at 55 to 60 MPH when you are in hi gear (not overdrive- I don't know what trans you have. Mine is an AUTO and is 1:1 in third)?

 

[EricBu12]

just as easy to kill or maim someone being "Right" under GCVWR if you don't know what you are doing or how to drive... .



I see everyone from Weekend warriers to Hot shot transporter... . ( I drive big rig for a living) ..... There is equipment, ratings for that, and then there is the person who either respects that equipment or is blindly depending on it... . Alot of the Weekend warriers I see do 75-85 and some of those are Pull-behind TT!!!



I know my setup is heavy, I did make the equipment to be able to handle it but I am not oblivious to the fact I need alot more room to stop and manuver. I hardly ever go over 65 to 70 while towing and I am always aware of my surroundings.....



If I am involved in an accident but not my fault... then no problem... If the guy that causes an accident and goes to court, he deserves it.

 

[nps]

How do you like towing with the 3:54 rearend? I know you have the 24V engine and it has about 500 more usable RPM than my 12V. Have you ever noticed what your RPM is at 55 to 60 MPH when you are in hi gear (not overdrive- I don't know what trans you have. Mine is an AUTO and is 1:1 in third)?

I've got a 6 speed manual and I also have 35" tires. I generally run at 1800 rpm. That puts me at 65mph in 6th (OD) or 55mph in 5th (direct drive). 60 in 5th will turn around 2000 rpms. Haven't found a hill that needs any less than 5th. I only use 1st when towing - empty starts are in 2nd gear. If I had a 4sp auto I think I'd want 4. 10s.

 

[steved]

My uneducated feeling on the whole weight issue is, if it's not posted on the door sticker, then it's not a published spec and cannot be enforced.



Beyond that, my research shows that the only weights that the real weight cops are interested in is lbs/tire width and is intended to keep road damage to a minimum from over weight trucks.

Agreed... depending on the state, they don't even have a weight restriction (MI comes to mind)... it is based purely on tire and axle weight rating.



steved