2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Rear Brakes Conversion Drum to Rotor????

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My rear brakes are fine and adjusted properly, but I noticed when stopping in snow that the front rotors lock up and the rears keep moving. I have to step on the brake pedal harder to get the rears to stop or put the trans in neutral to stop.



Has any one converted the rear brakes from drum to rotors? I would like to know if the truck stops better?



Also my truck has the weight sensing proportioning valve. In converting to rotors on the rear do you bypass the proportioning valve?
 
If you have a Gen II Ram you could purchase a complete rear end assembly, housing, brakes, and all from a late 2001 or 2002 and slide it under your truck.
 
Depending on the year of your truck you may only have rear ABS which would be why the fronts lock up but not the rears. In snow and ice with my auto I will have to put it in neutral to stop the tires.

In my opinion it not worth the effort and money to convert to rear disks 80% of your breaking is done with the front brakes.

Floyd
 
Nope.

My rear brakes are fine and adjusted properly, but I noticed when stopping in snow that the front rotors lock up and the rears keep moving. I have to step on the brake pedal harder to get the rears to stop or put the trans in neutral to stop.



Has any one converted the rear brakes from drum to rotors? I would like to know if the truck stops better?



Also my truck has the weight sensing proportioning valve. In converting to rotors on the rear do you bypass the proportioning valve?
Don't bother. I had the egr conversion installed and ended up with a marginal parking brake and minimally better stopping power. Prior to that I did the Chevy rear wheel cylinder swap and disabled the brake proportioning valve. If I did it again,I'd work with EGR enhancing the existing system. I ended up going with an eb coupled with $4,000 worth of DTT transmission upgrades in order to stop that '98. 5. OUCH!:{
 
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There's two easy things you can do to drastically increase the effectiveness of your existing rear drums. One is free, and the other is extremely cheap, being a tiny fraction of the cost of a drum-to-disk conversion.

1. Install larger wheel cylinders in the rear drums. NAPA part number 37337 is what you want.

2. Disable the proportioning valve on your driver's side frame rail by the rear axle. This valve has an arm that changes angle depending on the height of the bed relative to the axle, the idea being that if you load up the truck (settling the rear suspension) you need more rear brakes.

Give those a try before you drop serious money on a conversion. I've done them both on my truck and have VASTLY improved braking. Before I made those two mods, my rear wheel anti lock had never kicked in before. Now if I get on the brakes quickly on icy streets I can feel it kick in. (and yes, it very effectively prevents my rear wheels from locking up)
 
There's two easy things you can do to drastically increase the effectiveness of your existing rear drums. One is free, and the other is extremely cheap, being a tiny fraction of the cost of a drum-to-disk conversion.



1. Install larger wheel cylinders in the rear drums. NAPA part number 37337 is what you want.



2. Disable the proportioning valve on your driver's side frame rail by the rear axle. This valve has an arm that changes angle depending on the height of the bed relative to the axle, the idea being that if you load up the truck (settling the rear suspension) you need more rear brakes.



Give those a try before you drop serious money on a conversion. I've done them both on my truck and have VASTLY improved braking. Before I made those two mods, my rear wheel anti lock had never kicked in before. Now if I get on the brakes quickly on icy streets I can feel it kick in. (and yes, it very effectively prevents my rear wheels from locking up)



So with this logic, when I hook up my 11,000 pound fifth wheel and air up the air bags to keep it level, I get no extra braking power... Makes sense to me. Any more info on disabling the proportioning valve? I don't think I have ever paid any attention to it.
 
The two ways I'm familiar with are:

1. Pop the arm off the axle connector pivot and zip tie the arm to the frame such that the valve thinks the truck is heavily loaded. This is just setting the appropriate angle when you secure it with the zip ties. This is the method I used.

2. Dodge issued a TSB to dealers with a kit and instructions for running new brake line to completely bypass the valve.
 
Thanks, I will have to do that, as for the wheel cylinders, I did my brakes a few years ago and don't remember what I got. I'll just have to change those out, wheel cylinders aren't too expensive.
 
Change your wheel cylinders to the Chevy 1-3/16" bore. The Napa part # is 37337.

Keep you rear brakes adjusted and you'll notice a 25% decrease in pedal pressure w/ no noticeable increased pedal travel. They bolt right in. Your ABS system will take care of any rear lock-up. I had converted to the 3500 1-1/16" bore cylinders years ago, and they can't hold a candle to the General Mistakes.



If your wheel cylinders are still OEM:



The Dodge 2500 is 15/16" 0. 9375

The Dodge 3500 is 1 1/16" 1. 0625 ~12% increase bore size

The Chevy 3500 is 1 3/16" 1. 1875 ~25% increase bore size





A 1 1/16" cylinder will have 28% more push than a 15/16" cylinder at the same pressure.



A 1 3/16" cylinder will have 60% more push than a 15/16" cylinder at the same pressure.



By switching from a 15/16" cylinder to a 1 3/16" cylinder you've added 60% more braking power to your rear brakes
 
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John I did this conversion right before Christmas. I found an 02 donor and completely swapped the rear axle, camper special springs and sway bar. For now I left the prop valve in. However, the fittings on the axle are different on the trucks. I took the brake line from the prop(99) and had it welded(hydraulic shop-$40), so it would fit the 02 axle. I was worried about the rear ABS getting too much fluid during a panic stop. I also added washers under the lever arm to get more fluid to the calipers. Be sure to get the Parking Brake cables with the rear end all the way up to the cab. I am in the process of buying the front axle off the same truck, because my 99 has single piston calipers and the 02 has dual piston(rear has dual too). This thing stops way better. I went to Colorado for winter break and so much better than last year in the mountains. I have had a panic stop since the change and it didn't lock up. I also have the Master Cylinder and ABS from the 02, since it has 4 wheel ABS.



Joey
 
IIR the ABS only works in 2wd anyway and chances are you would be in 4wd in the snow. So swapping to the Chevy cylinders would be a mute point as far as your rwabs operation in 4wd in snow.



As far as locking up, it depends on what you have for weight in the back end. The more weight you have, to a reasonable point, the better you'll get around and stop in both 2wd and 4wd and the less rear lockup you'll experience when braking. I like to have about 1000 up to 1500 lbs in mine in winter.



Note: I have to buy water softener salt pellets for home use anyway. The bags are weatherproof, the contents work well in a pinch for under-tire traction, and I get a slightly better deal buying in bulk (2000 lb pallet) every year at the beginning of winter. So that's what I use. The bonus is my wife does not have to deal with lugging a 50 lb bag of softener salt when she goes grocery shopping. And my traction -- both stop and go -- is greatly enhanced. One other thing about "traction weight": Too many guys use heavy, hard objects like scrap metal or firewood. In the event of an accident, those become deadly missiles. Something 'softer' like bags of salt pellets might save a life.



If you do the conversion to larger cylinders, and do not have the height-sensing proportioning valve (useless junk to be disabled, imo), you might look into an adjustable p-valve like those Wilwood sells. Then you can dial in your own preferred front-to-rear braking under the load you normally have and even adjust it with the turn of a knob if that changes. Unlike the RWAL, it would work in both 2wd and 4wd, but it is not an anti-lock device if you are dependent on those.



But you can go out and find the slickest traction you are likely to encounter - say, ice in winter and loose gravel in summer - and hit your brakes hard enough to lock them up and keep adjusting the rears so they lock up at the same time the fronts do - not earlier. It will always vary depending on load and traction, of course, but you'll get pretty good at knowing where to set the adjustment. What you are doing is putting a real brain and real world conditions in control of a "dummy valve" similar to what the factory put on some rear axles (height sensor).



Those never work well, and not at all if you have good load-leveling suspension. In fact, they work against it and are dangerous since a truck with air bags might be very heavily loaded, yet level, and the dummy valve will restrict rear braking like the truck is empty. They do not "enhance rear braking" when sagging as described earlier, they restrict it when you aren't sagging. There's a difference. And sagging in the rear automatically screws up braking and steering right off the bat.



So-called anti-lock brakes have been around long enough now that many people have difficulty driving a vehicle without functioning anti-lock brakes. They are godsends when they work properly, but I'd never bet my life on them and they're no substitute for skillful non-anti-lock brake technique.
 
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I have the GM cyls on my 96 w/rear ABS, No problems with locking the brakes but I apply them at least once before I get on the road.

Floyd
 
a bit off-topic

I love the signature, Floyd : "I need no stinking chips. ", but I have got to ask about the "full time power windows" ?!



Are they always up, always down, or always doing both automatically? :confused: :D
 
I am considering doing the GM cylinder swap but have question for those who have done it. Do you have any problems with wheel lock-up when driving empty in the snow? My truck has the 4 wheel ABS system if that makes any difference.



Your 02 has rear discs, no need to dot eh GM cylinder swap.
 
I love the signature, Floyd : "I need no stinking chips. ", but I have got to ask about the "full time power windows" ?!



Are they always up, always down, or always doing both automatically? :confused: :D



Ya, I know not a very good description. When I first got the truck I would shut it off w/the window down. Found a mod that let you use the power windows w/the key off and on. I need to update have a couple other things to add to it.



Floyd
 
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