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Rear Shocks 3500 with Air Suspension

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does anyone notice this

Service Trailer Brake System....a little different

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Yep, can't change to alt or back unless sitting still, major adjustment. I still say the system will make minor adjustments on the fly. Say you hitch up on some real awkward angles and the rear axle is all out of wack. It adjusts sitting like that. Now you pull onto the road. I can't see it keeping one bag near zero and the other highly inflated. You'd go down the road tilted. Prove me wrong please. With actual proof it does absolutely nothing on the fly. Not how you interpret phases and such. If you prove it 100%, I will start saving up to replace it with standard suspension. I won't be on the side of the road cause a bag is empty from a small air leak because the system won't keep air in it while on the move. That would be a very poor design.


Earl
 
If that’s the case your system is f dup. Have you actually measured it?

Measured what? If you're talking EMPTY ride height between ALT and NORM, yes I have measured it in response to your comments before and posted the numbers for you to see. There is even a Note in the owners manual about most 3500's not going into ALT without a load. There is going to be a minimum pressure in the bags, and without a load that minimum pressure will keep it higher than the lowered ALT height even with ALT selected.

It stands to reason that if the system cannot remove enough air to lower to ALT height that in ALT height it would ride higher empty than loaded, even with minimum air in the bags.

Dad’s ‘17 works identical. Doubt they both are broke the same....

There were also some spring changes between 15 and 17, thou I don't know if it's just the overloads or main leaves too.

What stuff lives in your bed all the time? Maybe you have 500 lbs of fixed cargo that I don't have.


Say you hitch up on some real awkward angles and the rear axle is all out of wack. It adjusts sitting like that. Now you pull onto the road. I can't see it keeping one bag near zero and the other highly inflated. You'd go down the road tilted. Prove me wrong please.

I agree that it will adjust for this, but to me that's not going down the road adjusting for the altitude/temp differences as mentioned earlier. Correcting for uneven terrain at loading would be corrected very quickly and at low speeds. That is not the same as adjusting pressure for a swaying load or climbing 5000'.

Every time I start the truck and begin driving I hear it purge air from the tank, likely to push any water out. It usually takes 100-200' from where I was stopped. It doesn't do it until I am driving. I would guess that it does a moving check of the load around this same time.

If you prove it 100%, I will start saving up to replace it with standard suspension.


I'd feel the same to find out it adjusts at 65 mph. I don't want it adjusting at highway speed for the same reason I plumbed the airbags on my 05 independently, it made for a more stable load and added to sway control.

If the system were to adjust at 65, and adjust fast enough to try to compensate/react to sway it would make for a very unstable ride with most any load.

I have found a few more references to road surfaces and shifting loads, and they are all under the description for payload/normal ride height. None list that under the ALT ride height description. I find that interesting.

I've got some feelers out to Ram on the subject... see if it gets anywhere.

I also wonder if the FSM has any additional info on it.


I won't be on the side of the road cause a bag is empty from a small air leak because the system won't keep air in it while on the move. That would be a very poor design.


Earl


You need to get past the small leak. A proper system will be leak free. It's not very hard to have fittings and lines that don't leak. The bags likely operate at less than 150 psi, and we have fuel systems operating at 26K psi without a leak.

If I have a leak I want to know about it, not let the system bandaid it



I will say that at the end of the day the way the auto-level handles weight is awesome. I'm right at my RAWR when I take the ATV's camping and it has minimal body roll, it's comfortable, and stable. So I guess either way it's working quite well, thou I would like to know more about how it adjusts.
 
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You need at least 500# for ALT to kick in.

Read about it, the truck bed height is LOWER in ALT than without plain and simple.

Truck adjusts while moving plain and simple.
 
Read about it, the truck bed height is LOWER in ALT than without plain and simple.

No it's not. There are at least 2 of us in here telling you it doesn't work that way on at least 3 different trucks. Yours seems to the exception, not the other way around.

Empty in Normal ride height: ~40.75" to the fender
Empty in ALT ride height: ~40.75" to the fender
Loaded in Normal ride height: ~40.25" to the fender
Loaded in ALT ride height: ~39.4 to the fender

Loaded was about 2K lbs of 5er pin weight.

There are the plain and simple measurements.



Yours might be lower unhitched, but what else is in your bed? How much stuff is in that tool box? Even the hitch and box in the bed means it's not empty...
 
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I will never get past the air leak. I've have many of air bags leak on trucks to semis. My add on air bags with wireless control would compensate for air leaks and even warn you.
I'm sure the system would light the service air suspension light or message if it detected a leak or any other system issue. But I want the sob to keep that bag aired up provided it can keep up with the leak. Other wise it's getting pulled off. I won't be 12 hours from home with a 13k 5th wheel on the side of the road cause it won't add air to the bag cause the truck is moving. That's just piss poor and would be a major flaw. Semi air bags constantly adjust with a mechanical ride height valve, even with leaks. I need proof man, not your take on it. Lol unfortunately the owners manual barely even mentions the system.
Again, I'm saying minor adjustments on the fly. My add on bags I could take from 5 psi to 100 psi and in between on the fly and didn't effect handling, just ride.
The air bags aren't going to adjust for sway. They won't effect away nor could they charge and discharge fast enough.

I expect the system to make minor adjusts to compensate for changes in ride height on the road. Be it a leak, load shift, bag pressure changes from temp and elevation, pin weight changed due to draining the 75 gallon fresh water tank on the way home, a water tank in the bed wetting down a dirt road, a salt body spreading salt on the move. Could go on for days of examples of how the ride height could change and need adjustments on the fly and not just sitting still. Unfortunately I have no info. The system is rarely mentioned and not in detail. I can't even hear it except when I'm outside the truck. So going down the road I don't know if it's doing anything or not. Minor adjustments would be quick as the bags are small volume. I still feel it should be designed to do major adjustments at a stop and minor on the move. If it's not, that's just bad.

Please use your magic to dig up proof the system shuts down and does nothing once moving or even proof that it does function on the road. I do plan to get a FSM in the future. But don't know how in detail it will go on the system. Sometimes the FSM gives very detailed info and at times you're like what the hell. Lol


Earl
 
No it's not. There are at least 2 of us in here telling you it doesn't work that way on at least 3 different trucks. Yours seems to the exception, not the other way around.

Empty in Normal ride height: ~40.75" to the fender
Empty in ALT ride height: ~40.75" to the fender
Loaded in Normal ride height: ~40.25" to the fender
Loaded in ALT ride height: ~39.4 to the fender

Loaded was about 2K lbs of 5er pin weight.

There are the plain and simple measurements.



Yours might be lower unhitched, but what else is in your bed? How much stuff is in that tool box? Even the hitch and box in the bed means it's not empty...

Yep, my truck refuses to drop unless it actually has a load. You take the load off and leave it in alt for days it goes to normal height. Turn alt off and no change, stays at normal height. Tried this many times. System just won't let it be in alt unless there is a load on it. Remove the load, normal height even with the button on and the indicator lights on.


Earl
 
Mine has not came out of ALT for at least two years. I accidentally turned it off. It would not go back in until it had weight added.

Literature on the system says alt rides lower than non.

Not sure why have two settings with same height.
 
Mine has not came out of ALT for at least two years. I accidentally turned it off. It would not go back in until it had weight added.

Literature on the system says alt rides lower than non.

Not sure why have two settings with same height.

ALT does ride lower than norm with enough weight to compress the springs (steel and air). If you’re empty it will let you stay in ALT mode, but there isn’t enough weight to keep you at ALT height.

You still haven’t told us how much weight is in your bed all the time.... my guess is that your every day weight is enough to keep it in ALT height, but not enough to engage ALT. probably in the 400-600 lb range of payload, based on how I’ve seen my system work. But that weight will also include a bedliner and the heavier DRW bed. It’s not a lot, but when you’re looking at a system that needs weight to activate 200lbs of permanently installed stuff will make a difference.
 
No idea why it would come out of ALT since they claim the benefits of lower entry/exiting.

I would guess 300# when I remove my tools from tool box.

ALT both pics and same height. 55" top back corner of bed. Loaded pic full RAWR of 9,750#.

IMG_2268.JPG
IMG_3566.JPG
 
No idea why it would come out of ALT since they claim the benefits of lower entry/exiting.

I would guess 300# when I remove my tools from tool box.

ALT both pics and same height. 55" top back corner of bed. Loaded pic full RAWR of 9,750#.

It doesn’t come out of ALT mode, it just isn’t heavy enough to compress the springs enough.

I have only seen the lower entry/exit advertised for the 1500 that has a lowering button on the key fob, never for the 3500. ALT is only advertised as keeping a level profile when towing on the 3500.

"Alternate Ride Height Mode. This mode lowers the rear suspension about an inch—just right to keep the hitch/trailer alignment even. It also establishes capable and comfortable towing by creating a parallel and level relationship between the vehicle and the trailer, ensuring an even rake from the front of the pickup through the trailer."

300# plus bed-liner/DRW bed would be enough to keep you there. That's 450# I don't have on my rear suspension.. then add your tools on that and it's easy to see why you would have enough weight to stay at the lowered ALT height and a empty bed wouldn't.
 
Does TDR have a contact within FCA (or TDR author "insider") who could answer the questions about rebound travel issue for rear air system, or other reasons a shock for the non-air rear end might not be safe to use with that system?
Or an aftermarket installer who has the necessary knowledge and experience to make recommendations?
My 2018 3500 sometimes bottoms at the rear on "gentle" low speed bumps that don't even look like much, with our slide in camper on board, hard enough to hurt. Ride height seems fine, so jounce travel does not seem to be the deficiency. Either more jounce valving at low suspension velocity, or better control of shock fluid temperature, might help if we can find a shock....
Don
 
Has anyone found out any more info on our air ride trucks? The sticker on my Rear shocks read 68188465AE but I can’t locate any mopar shocks with this part number?? And is it ok to run different shocks up front than rear (bilstein fronts vs mopar rears)
 
"And is it ok to run different shocks up front than rear (bilstein fronts vs mopar rears)"

If there was a problem I would have known by now at 70k on my front 4600 Bilatein's.
 
His first email...

Dan,


The closest option we have is the MonoMax 565132 for the Ram 3500 w/o air ride. We’re working on shocks for the Ram 3500 w/ air ride that have a slight difference in damping spec, but those units are not yet available. If use the truck more for towing and hauling than anything else, this may be a good option, but it will be a firm ride if you drive the vehicle unloaded. Alternatively, if you do a mix of towing and unloaded commuting, you should probably look at the Gas-a-Just 554360 instead.


Both of the above options are monotube shocks with improved damping, so they will be upgrades over the factory Ram shocks.


Regards,

Technical Support

KYB Americas Corporation

techsupport@kyb.com
 
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