Rear wheel seals leaking after being replaced

[Blakers]

I replaced my rear wheel bearings and seals about four years ago and the seals have been leaking ever since. Just enough to get into the parking brake drums. Is there any trick to installing these seals so they don't leak?

I know they were expensive - around $45 each at the time, and I think they had a built-in race that the seal lip rode on, so they weren't actually riding on the spindle itself. I know I didn't damage them when I installed them, but is there a trick to these? Thanks!

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I replaced my rear wheel bearings and seals about four years ago and the seals have been leaking ever since. Just enough to get into the parking brake drums. Is there any trick to installing these seals so they don't leak?

I know they were expensive - around $45 each at the time, and I think they had a built-in race that the seal lip rode on, so they weren't actually riding on the spindle itself. I know I didn't damage them when I installed them, but is there a trick to these? Thanks!

You could buy the seal installation tool or make your own. Though since you replaced it already id check the breather on the axle housing and make sure it's not clogged. If it's plugged the axle will push oil out from thermal expansion of the oil.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I remember the Fords it helped to clean everything real good and put a thin layer of gear oil resistant sealant on all mating metal surfaces. Also they recommended packing the inner axle tube end, right where the bearing back was, with grease to act as a dam. Oil will still splash over.
But that's only if you installed properly in the first place.

 

[Blakers]

You could buy the seal installation tool or make your own. Though since you replaced it already id check the breather on the axle housing and make sure it's not clogged. If it's plugged the axle will push oil out from thermal expansion of the oil.

Thanks. I replaced the breather fitting back when I replaced the bearings and seals. It's open!

 

[Blakers]

I remember the Fords it helped to clean everything real good and put a thin layer of gear oil resistant sealant on all mating metal surfaces. Also they recommended packing the inner axle tube end, right where the bearing back was, with grease to act as a dam. Oil will still splash over.
But that's only if you installed properly in the first place.

I've installed seals for years. I've never heard of packing the tube with grease, but I guess that could temporarily stop oil flow. This oil came out later after everything was installed. I've cleaned everything up with gasoline and degreaser and water, and they still get full of oil after a while.

 

[terb]

And there's no groove in the axle spindle, correct!

 

[NIsaacs]

And there's no groove in the axle spindle, correct!

That doesn't apply to the AAM axle.

From Torque King site:

"Tech Note 2: Design
QU50247 is a unitized oil bath rear wheel seal that is designed so the inner sleeve rotates within the outer Seal Shell. This means the seal is a press fit on both the spindle and in the wheel hub. This design, in which the seal rotates within itself eliminates one of the most troublesome causes of wheel seal leaks with one piece conventional seals which often groove the spindle. Unlike conventional seals which have the seal lip directly rotating and wearing on the spindle, our Oil Bath Seal seal lip rotates on the seals fixed inner sleeve so there is no wear on the spindle at all."

 

[petersonj]

Although I can't seem to verify this, I remember that over 30 years ago those seals were called SCOT seals (self contained oil transfer). They have been around for a long time.

- John

 

[Ozymandias]

A loose wheel bearing will make it leak too.

 

[Ozymandias]

I remember the Fords it helped to clean everything real good and put a thin layer of gear oil resistant sealant on all mating metal surfaces.

That's the deal, I do that with all my seal rings and since then never a leaky one again.
The pronunciation is on THIN layer - just a tiny little bit smeared with the fingers tip around the contact surface, so thin you can still see the surface through it. Just meant to seal the smallest imperfections at the mating surfaces.

 

[Blakers]

Thanks guys! I'm thinking that perhaps I have a slight leak around the perimeter of the seals, either on the inside or the outside, rather than through the seals itself. I do not remember using Permatex or another sealer while installing, though I may have. This was about 4.5 years ago. Since both sides have the leak problem, I doubt it is a damaged seal.

When I have time, I may pull it apart and, if I can get the seals out without damaging them, clean them up and re-install them with sealer. My (second) backing plates are rusting out and need to be replaced anyway. I believe they have a lifetime warranty, but never could have imagined I would need to replace them a second time.

The parking brakes in these trucks are very very marginal at best, even when they aren't full of oil. Back when the truck was only a few years old, they never would hold well. They are too small and, I believe, the stroke is too short on the cable travel.

 

[petersonj]

The parking brakes in these trucks are very very marginal at best, even when they aren't full of oil. Back when the truck was only a few years old, they never would hold well. They are too small and, I believe, the stroke is too short on the cable travel.

Actually, your park brake should hold very well. My guess is that it is way out of adjustment and may have some worn linkage (beside the extra lube you have provided).

Your park brake is of the same style as my second generation truck. My park brake has never had any parts replaced including the shoes, but I have kept it adjusted properly and I use it all of the time. Just last week, I used it to hold a combined 20,000 lb truck and trailer load on a minor grade and it holds well. Has been in use for over 380,000 miles.

- John

 

[Blakers]

Actually, your park brake should hold very well. My guess is that it is way out of adjustment and may have some worn linkage (beside the extra lube you have provided).

Your park brake is of the same style as my second generation truck. My park brake has never had any parts replaced including the shoes, but I have kept it adjusted properly and I use it all of the time. Just last week, I used it to hold a combined 20,000 lb truck and trailer load on a minor grade and it holds well. Has been in use for over 380,000 miles.

- John

I've had problems with the parking brakes when the truck was only four years old and didn't have many miles on it. There is not enough stroke of the cables to tighten them without having the shoes almost rubbing the drums when released. This was long before any oil leaks. The drums are only about 9 or 10 inches in diameter, which is not a lot for this sized truck. My 95 had drum brakes on the rear and never had a problem with parking brakes.

 

[petersonj]

My brother-in-law has an '03 with the manual six speed with 170,000 miles. He carries a 3,500 lb slide-in camper. His park brake works very well. Very little pedal travel.

You are making an assumption that because the park brake assembly is a small diameter it is not effective. This is not true. These park brakes hold very well.

There is not enough stroke of the cables to tighten them without having the shoes almost rubbing the drums when released.

Have you ever adjusted the park brake after the tires have been installed using the slot in the backing plate? This should be the first step. How about the adjustment cable along the frame on the driver side? This should be the second step. This sequence is important, otherwise the park brake will perform poorly.

Here is a common scenario that happens too frequently: Operator notices a fair amount of slack in the park brake stroke and the park brake doesn't hold like it used to. Operator makes an adjustment to the cable along the frame thinking that this should take care of it. This is a mistake as the park brake shoes will now not return to the anchor pin and the park brake won't hold any better. The stroke will have improved, but the actual brake shoes did not get adjusted.

You may have gone through the correct steps, and if so, then there is a problem with the park brake system if it is not holding well.

I did have to make one repair on each park brake assembly on each side at two different times during the truck's life. The equalizer developed a notch on a sliding area which would catch and not allow equal force with both shoes onto the drum. I used a file to smooth over the notch. The problem has not re-occurred since.

- John

 

[Ozymandias]

Same here, just renewed the whole park brake assembly. Nicely adjusted with the drums off I've about 3-4 inches of pedal travel, about half way down, maximum with almost full leg force.. Holds great even at the steepest hill.
Same as before but then I had to depress it all the way to the floor for same results.

 

[Blakers]

My brother-in-law has an '03 with the manual six speed with 170,000 miles. He carries a 3,500 lb slide-in camper. His park brake works very well. Very little pedal travel.

You are making an assumption that because the park brake assembly is a small diameter it is not effective. This is not true. These park brakes hold very well.



Have you ever adjusted the park brake after the tires have been installed using the slot in the backing plate? This should be the first step. How about the adjustment cable along the frame on the driver side? This should be the second step. This sequence is important, otherwise the park brake will perform poorly.

Here is a common scenario that happens too frequently: Operator notices a fair amount of slack in the park brake stroke and the park brake doesn't hold like it used to. Operator makes an adjustment to the cable along the frame thinking that this should take care of it. This is a mistake as the park brake shoes will now not return to the anchor pin and the park brake won't hold any better. The stroke will have improved, but the actual brake shoes did not get adjusted.

You may have gone through the correct steps, and if so, then there is a problem with the park brake system if it is not holding well.

I did have to make one repair on each park brake assembly on each side at two different times during the truck's life. The equalizer developed a notch on a sliding area which would catch and not allow equal force with both shoes onto the drum. I used a file to smooth over the notch. The problem has not re-occurred since.

- John

Thanks John and everyone!

I have followed the procedure in the service manual, but have never had a good result. Maybe it’s me and not the design. Adjusting through those little peep holes is a real bear!

Over the years I have replaced both parking brake cables twice, the hardware in the drums, and the cable equalizer. Those are all in good working order now.

Once I get the oil leak issue solved, I’ll go through the proper adjustment procedure again. She’s been a real good truck and I want to keep her as long as I can. I bought her new in May of 2003 and personally put on 99% of the 336,000+ miles.

 

[Ozymandias]

That's why i adjust them with the drums off.
Especially drivers side is almost impossible to work through the hole.

So I don't care for what the manual says, only the cable adjustment I regard.

 

[Blakers]

That's why i adjust them with the drums off.
Especially drivers side is almost impossible to work through the hole.

So I don't care for what the manual says, only the cable adjustment I regard.

Thanks.

 

[Ozymandias]

Thanks.

The way to do it is the following.

1) Take the drums off.
2) Push the EB pedal down about 1" inch.
3) Adjust the brake shoes as much that you can just barely slip/wiggle the drums over it, so they touch the drum but you can still turn them around (both directions!) by hand, slightly dragging.
4)Adjust both side the same way.
5)Push down the pedal hard and release entirely, this centers the shoes within the drum. Drums should turn free now without any drag.
Repeat step 3) until you can't adjust anymore without locking up the drums.
6) Leave pedal totally released now, Take drum off again and Adjust each side notch by notch until you can't slide on/off the drums anymore, so they drag.
7) Turn back the adjusters about two notches each so drag goes away.

That should be it. If you aren't happy with the outcome repeat the steps.

If done right you should end up with a nice solid pedal and a holding brake.
Do absolutely not Adjust the cables length, that does not work.

 

[Blakers]

The way to do it is the following.

1) Take the drums off.
2) Push the EB pedal down about 1" inch.
3) Adjust the brake shoes as much that you can just barely slip/wiggle the drums over it, so they touch the drum but you can still turn them around (both directions!) by hand, slightly dragging.
4)Adjust both side the same way.
5)Push down the pedal hard and release entirely, this centers the shoes within the drum. Drums should turn free now without any drag.
Repeat step 3) until you can't adjust anymore without locking up the drums.
6) Leave pedal totally released now, Take drum off again and Adjust each side notch by notch until you can't slide on/off the drums anymore, so they drag.
7) Turn back the adjusters about two notches each so drag goes away.

That should be it. If you aren't happy with the outcome repeat the steps.

If done right you should end up with a nice solid pedal and a holding brake.
Do absolutely not Adjust the cables length, that does not work.

Thank you!

Do you back off the cable adjustment first?