2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission RED #2 uh oh

[Gifford]

One of my subcontractors had a new transfer tank installed in a company truck, the first time he filled it, he noticed upon arriving that the tank was leaking pretty good, since the D6 was full, he asked me I f I wanted a free tank of fuel (it was gonna leak all over the jobsite if we didnt pump it out quick). So my question is, does the red dye PERMENENTLY stain the fuel system, or will I be safe just changing the fuel filter?

 

[thekidfan]

This is what I've heard, not first hand knowledge. It is not permanent for sure. But it will stay with you for quite sometime I've heard after 5, 6, and even 8 tanks of fuel it can still be seen. If you're real worried I would make sure each time you fill up the tank was as empty as possible. I'm here in Calif. and I've heard of CHP at rodeos dipping tanks but I am yet to see any cop check anyones tank along the road (not that it hasn't happened). I've never heard the same answer about the fine if you get caught but you know rumors!

 

[mschoenheider]

To the best of my knowelege, the red dye does not stain the fuel system, however even when diluted, the fuel will still retain some of the color. According to the "Diesel Fuel Technoligy Review" published by Chevron Products Company,

"The IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high sulfur and low sulfur, have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3. 9 ptb of Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount required bythe EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel. "

I would suggest that you run your fuel tank as close to empty as you can before you fill up for the next few fillups.



Mark

 

[BV]

3-4 tanks (3/4 empty on refill) should clear it out to the point the dye gods would not complain. The big problem is the soot in the tail pipe that they can do a chemical check on months later and find residue.



If you want to cover up the use of red - I have heard of folks using (or just having empty contain) Marvel Mystery oil (the red stuff) as an additive.

 

[CRSmith]

Couldn't you just tell them you were operating off road for that tank of fuel? If you're riding around your farm or construction site you're not causing wear and tear on the road that the tax is supposed to pay for. Of course if you get caught "red" handed with a tank full, you're done for.

 

[dcasselberry]

The state police in Pennsylvania also do spot checks for offroad fuel. I was at a rodeo in the northwestern part of the state, and about ten miles from the rodeo grounds, they had a spot check set up on a very dinky country road. They took a sample from every diesel rig passing through. My fuel was fine.



A big rig trucker out there told me the fine was $10K, but I don't know if that's true or not.

 

[Pit Bull]

I've got a better idea, buy a lottery ticket every week that you have the red dye in your tank. I bet you win the lottery before any cop stops you and checks your fuel

 

[bighammer]

So you did it.









So what's your address?

 

[RBrush]

Class 8 inspections

Howdy,

I really have no info on fuel inspections for pickups in Oregon or Washington, But EVERY time I've been inspected at a scale in either state ( in a class 8 truck ) the fuel has been checked. I'll keep my eyes and ears open for any info. The next time I'm in a scale, I'll ask about pu fuel inspections.

Have a great day.



Rich

 

[MarkF]

Has anyone ever heard of a pickup getting checked? Here in the peoples republic of Massachusetts its unheard of to have a pickup fuel tank checked. Though I have never run off road fuel, given the chance I wouldn't hesitate. This state takes enough taxes out of my pocket. Got 250 gal of #2 in the basement for the heat when the wood stove isn't burning. That was only . 96 per gallon. Since I bought this truck, I have always thought of pumping an occasional tankfull from the house.

 

[JohnE]

I love these threads.

Red fuel does have lots of residual. The best thing is to run the tank down to the light a couple times with a full refill. Change the fuel filter and be done with it.

You cannot claim off-road use with a road licensed diesel fueled vehicle. (PERIOD) The rules are not the same as gasoline fuels.

BTW, claiming Marvel Mystery oil and transmission fluid as additives are nothing more than coverups for running dyed fuels.

Construction, logging, and agricultural are the easy targets for wrong fuels. I live in farming country. All diesels may get dipped if you get stopped.

 

[Reb.B]

the red fuel will dye your filter. the penelty for comercial is 10K. The CHP was pulling the filter and checking there, but had a hard time getting the powerpuffs started again, and a couple starters were burned up over it, so they are back checking the tank. When buying fuel, if u claim more that 10% used on highway, they will sell u all the fuel clear, . . at least when u buy a truck and trailer load. The safest way to run red diesel is to have an auxillary tank in the back. fill the axillary tank and put a fill system that fill the main tank from the auxillary. Then cap off the main tank and plug the main fill to the main tank. Fill the line with clear diesel. Or put a can hooked to the main fill full of clear diesel. This way they always dip clear diesel and u run the red. They don't check the auxillary tank because that is used for filling up farm equipment, ... ya right,,lol

 

[WadePatton]

I know of one person checked in TN. She passed.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

I live in AK and I have never ever heard of anyone getting checked. This is not farm country so I guess its not a big problem. I doubt the cops up here would even know how. My very good friend delivered fuel and tried to talk me into it all the time. I just didnt want to foot the bill for a storage tank all by myself. He said he could get me 1000 gallons at about 86 cents each. As he mumbled something about the school district. I didnt catch it. I think he was going to put me on the delivery list as being one of the school districts tanks. Alas, I never did it and my opportunity is gone.

 

[illflem]

In Montana the red fill nozzle is right next to the #2 and #1 nozzles. I 've never heard of any pickups getting checked, sometimes big rigs are checked at the weigh stations though. Once while I was filling up the tanker pulled in, talking with the driver she said they sell more red than the others combined and it isn't because of farmers, most have their own tanks. She also said the service station doesn't give a hoot what color fuel you use, enforcement isn't their concern.

 

[schu777]

Only one tank....

Okay... big deal... red dye in one tank of fuel you have been running. If you are keeping all of your fill-up reciepts (like all of us should be JUST in case there was actually gas and it was diesel pump), then you could actually prove to the court that you only ran one tank of red fuel... plus if you get your friend to come in and state that the fuel would have been leaked all over the ground if it wasn't pumped into a legal container.



It might work... then again... why worry about it till it happens.



Michael

 

[RAndrae]

RED FUEL FINE

FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE AND A FRIEND THAT GOT DIPPED. GET DIPPED WITH RED FUEL IN CALIFORNIA--- $1500 FINE

 

[illflem]

Seems like their are a lot of myths floating around about $10,000 fines etc. I decided to look around. The federally mandated fine is $1000 or $10 per gallon of tank capacity, whichever is higher. So you could get a $10,000 fine only if you have a 100 gallon tank. Looking around it seems like some states have a higher fine though none were over $2500 or $10 per gallon. Nevada was $1000 or 27¢ per gallon, go figure. Some states had a straight $2500 fine with no per gallon charge.





September 15, 2002 (Washington, DC)



U. S. DOT PUSHES STATES TO TEST FUEL IN TRUCK POWER UNITS:

The U. S. DOT is providing money to state transportation enforcement officials to test commercial motor vehicle power units for illegal use of non-taxable dyed diesel fuel. Dyed diesel fuel is marked with a red dye and is designated by both state and federal laws for use in off road vehicles only. The IRS has determined that power units on commercial motor vehicles do not qualify as a non-taxable use. This is true for petroleum cargo tanks with a power units regardless of whether the power unit has a separate fuel tank or relies on fuel from the cargo tank lading itself. Under IRS regulations, a power unit attached to any vehicle capable of being registered for on-road use must use clear, taxable diesel fuel. According to the IRS, it does not matter if the vehicle is used in an off road setting. If the vehicle with the power unit is designed for on-road use, then clear taxable diesel fuel must be used at all times The DOT said random roadside testing will be conducted throughout the country. A special federally funded pilot project is currently underway in Georgia. The visual test takes approximately 60 seconds to administer and involves inserting a small glass pipe in the fuel tank of the power unit. The glass pipe is designed to extract several millimeters of fuel to be observed visually by the enforcement officer for evidence of red dye. If red dye is found, a larger sample will be taken and sent to the IRS as evidence. The enforcement officer will not fine or ticket the driver for any fuel violations at the time of the inspection. The IRS will notify the driver of the fine at a later date. The standard fine is $1000 or $10 per gallon of tank capacity whichever is higher.

 

[MarkF]

Not that I'm trying to endorse any activity right or wrong, but, the laws stated only mention commercial vehicles. I know in some states all pickup trucks are considered commercial even if it is a soccer mom grocery getter. MASS used to do this for a few years in the 80s. My truck is registered as a passenger vehicle and as such, the way I see it the federal law won't hold water in the one in 1,000,000,000,000 chance that a state trooper checks my fuel tank.

Now I have heard rumor that there is a "radar gun like" gadget of sorts being tested that allows the officer to just point it at the exhaust outlet and it somehow shows if dyed / non-dyed fuel is being burned. This is just rumor and speculation, dont know if such an animal exists or is possible so don't staert a new end of the world armegeddon type thread on big brother and red fuel.