Red fuel debate

[Todd T]

Same goes in Illinois

ISB pilot is right. we have ICC and state troopers the ICC run around in unmarked cars and usually dont bother speeders or four wheelers at all. they go for the 18 wheelers including speed traps portable scales the works.



this winter i was headed to town after helping the neighbor load an 18 wheeler with grain. I was following the 18 wheeler out to the highway. when we got to the highway, there sat a state trooper sitting there, talking to the driver of the scale van (lucky for us he was not ready yet). he stopped the trucker and ME and dipped both our tanks. we had done nothing wrong other than drive up to the stop sign. I was clean and he let me go after reminding me of the seat belt laws. when i pulled away the trucker was steppin and fetching his paper work. I think he saw us both pull off the same farm where sat two 500 gallon Ag tanks full of off road fuel.



I bet he thought he had us nailed niether of us run the dyed stuff in our highway trucks.

 

[MattSt]

That's one of the reasons it irritates me that they (here in Nebraska anyway) can pull you over for anything. They changed the law a few years ago. Back when I had my Impala I would get pulled over once a week for nothing. It had dark windows and nice 18 inch wheels but there has to be a line drawn where it's harassment!!

 

[stevek]

A couple of years ago I was in a leased Penske box truck and stopped at a rest stop to use the bathroom. I came back and the local DOT was at the truck asking to sump my tanks and handed me a sheet with the list of fines--huge is not the word. Luckily the guy was not that interested as he failed to notice that one tank had 70gals of Jet A in it I never sweated so much in my life... .

 

[E7mack96]

Red #2 and INDOT

I was running out of Hansons (a gravel pit) in Versailles, Indiana. The IRS and The IN Dot were pulling everyone over, everytime they came through. I was informed that the fine is $10,000 per gallon of red Fuel. I didn't have red, so I didn't get PROOF of 10k fine, but lets just say that I'll trust them on that one. I did get an overweight though. Indiana is expensive compared to Ohio (4,000 over is $300 in indiana; $89 in ohio)

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

i see farmers all the time with those tanks in the back of their dodges i guess to put fuel into tractors etc. I bet there are a few out there that hook up the truck fuel tanks to the big tanks in the bed with red fuel in them all the while having regular green fuel that seldom gets used in the main factory fuel tank LOL

 

[CKeith]

EZ Mack 96 we farm out by Versailles and the day the dot were stopping trucks there by Hanson's i got busted for Red fuel. I don't know about other States but in Indiana it was $76. 00 court cost $200. 00 fine and 16 cents for every gallon you can hold. The second offense $2500. 00 plus court cost. Luckily I was in my pickup only 30 gallons it would have been bad if I was hauling corn that day.

 

[Hummin Cummins]

10-G YOURE RIGHT

Dont know about anywhere else, but in PA, my brother in law and I were running our tri-axles coming off 81 onto 309 and stopped at a truck pull off for a steep grade. Little fat guy in a suit along with a trooper wanted to dip our tanks. Brother in law politely told him to "go get f... . d. If you wanna check our tanks just take the cap off and look in, if its good fuel you can see the bottom of the tank. I dont know where that dippers been and you aint puttin anything in my tank". I thought we were done, but they looked in and let us go on our merry way.



Chris

 

[CAT 385]

Is this still the USA?????

I thought we were protected by our constitutional rights and the bill of rights.





Amendment 5 says unreasonable search and seizers.



That means they must have a warrant issued by a judge to search your property.



And they must provide evidence to the judge to get that warrant.



I don,t run red fuel but if I was told I was getting my tanks dipped I would tell them to get a warrant. Then they could arrest me and "freeze me" for 24 hours to get the warrant "w/good evidence", then when they come back to dip me and they find clear fuel. I don't think the judge that issued the warrant would be real happy with the officers.



The bottom line is this a free country and we have rights so do not let those little nerds that were picked on in highschool and then became cops to get even take advantage of you.

 

[merryman]

Sounds to me like Ckieth and Hummin Cummins, got hit by STATE officials; Its a different ball game if you tangle with Federal people---. They play in a bigger league-----sort of like the difference in the salary of your local AA league as compared to the NBA.



The Constitutional issues raised by WWeveret are very applicable when it comes to your PRIVATEhome, or the use of the INTERIOR or your automobile; but on issues relating to the USE of streets and highways built and maintained by PUBLIC money, forget those issues.

When you elect to drive on a public road, you by the simple act of going only the publicly owned and maintained road CONSENT to a whole bunch of conditions--such as checking to see if you are in compliance with laws relating to that activity. Whether its State or Federal people though, if you refuse the testing of your tanks, it will only be a reluctance by the officers involved to get into a hassel that will keep you out of jail, or the towing of your rig.



Vaughn

 

[rrausch]

Doesn't "probable cause" mean that the officer has to see something, hear something or smell something which would make him think you had broken some law? Is this only applicable to state law? Aren't the Feds bound by this law too?

 

[10-G]

The laws governing vehicles is different than homes ,that is true. Laws governing commercial and private vehicles are different. I dont know squat about commercial vehicle laws.



It sounds like they are bluffing a lot of you Ram drivers. Laws vary between the States but they gravitate closely around the Constitution. If you are mobile(driving)they have to have a minimum of REASONABLE SUSPICION to stop you. They have to have PROBABLE CAUSE for a search. Stop and checkin ya out aint legal unless you reside in another country.



However if you are not wearing your seat belt or driving with limo tint, they have their probable cause because those are violations (ticketable or arrestable depending on the State). If they have you stopped for the traffic violation they can ask you anything they want(where are you going,what are you doing,how do you make a living,do you have anything you should not have today,what color of briefs are you wearing, why dont you uncap your gas tank, YOU DONT MIND IF I LOOK IN YOUR TRUCK DO YOU. They can ask you anything, it does not mean that you have to answer (be careful with this). Listen carefully to what they say because 99% of the time they are asking for your permission to search.



For the record Ive never been arrested and I have had one ticket in the last 17 years. I believe in paying taxes and I just payed a lot. You sons a guns running red fuel cut out the tomfoolery, Im paying $1. 30 for mine

 

[rashwor]

Red Fuel.

I farm and ranch and use red fuel in tractors and farm equipment only. I do not run off-road fuel in my on-highway applications. If caught in Texas, you get severe fines! I have seen it happen!



It is not worth the risk. It takes a lot of red fuel to save $10,000 for the fine when you get caught!

 

[CAT 385]

My point is question authority!! Don't roll over make them earn everything. Not only will you respect yourself more but so will other people. If everybody said no to a search get warrant the only time we would have a problem is if there is probable cause good enough for a warrant.

 

[Rogue Ram]

Its a civil thing..........

... ..... when it comes to Feds, gang. Trust me on this one, I'm speaking as someone who has dealt with these guys on a professional level before.



When it comes to the Feds, meaning in this case the IRS, they are enforcing the excise tax laws. The fellas from IRS who dip your tanks ARE NOT law enforcement officers... ... . they come from the civil side of IRS..... when they fine you for using dyed fuel, its a CIVIL fine, not criminal.



Since this is a civil issue, and not criminal, IN THEIR EYES, meaning in their policies, procedures, and the Infernal Revenue Code (which they get to write by the way), the protections of the Constitution against unlawful search and seizure don't apply----because its a civil action. Now, I'll be the first to say that NO ONE should have a right to go into your gas tank, your farm tank, nor come on your property without due process. At the federal level, law enforcement can go into your vehicle tank with reasonable suspicion and make a warrantless search----but they still can't go on a fishing expedition-----but that is LAW ENFORCEMENT... the way these guys see it is that if you run across the scales, you are operating for commercial purposes and commercial vehicles are required by the IRS to submit to tank dipping--because you can be fined, not imprisoned. With farm tanks on private property, police (Fed or local) would need a search warrant to get into them..... but NOT the civil side of the IRS. They do this all the time. Not sure what they do if they find a farm tank locked or if the farmer tells them to beat it... ..... never got that far involved in it.



I'm with you guys, I think they need more than a sideways hair to do what they do... ... ..... especially to us diesel pickup owners and especially when it involves private property! However, I'm just the messenger... ... ... who doesn't run dyed, and who doesn't go near scales anyway.



Later



R

 

[superdave]

we use kerosene by the tankful for heaters about 6 months out of the year... 2 years ago we had to start paying 1. 75 per gallon where we had been paying from . 90 to 1. 00 the previous year... the REASON??????? many people were burning kerosene in their diesel trucks and paying no road tax... so now when we order a tank it cost us 1. 75... since we are a corporation we can not apply for a federal and state road tax refund as can an individual... dumb me i didnt know they would even run on kerosene. . . also i believe the diesel at the pumps has undergone one more process and is a bit cleaner as well as a little lower in sulphur... the red stuff on the farm sometimes is pretty dirty... has been known to mess up my injector pump on a tractor... the state guys here in TX often go to the cattle auction barns and sample tanks from the farmers... i think the fine is 10K if even a minuscle amount is found and the red dye does show up bigtime even in ppm. . oh well,, another tax getter...

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by MattSt

That's one of the reasons it irritates me that they (here in Nebraska anyway) can pull you over for anything.

They don't really bother you here as far as I can tell? I regularly go by them on the highway (while they are doing their best to hide) and I know I am going faster then 60mph (spededo is off and I am usully around 65 on it)... and they have't really bothered me yet? There were a couple of times I thought I was gonna get nailed... ... . I guess the clearence lights throws'em off gauge? I'm just a big ol slow truck... ... . I must admit, at least they try to hide now days... . back when I first moved here in June 98... . I laughed everytime I drove to work..... (about 20 miles one way on I80).



Friends at work as well as my dad (works same place) ask me how come I never get stopped... ...

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by KatDiesel

Friends at work as well as my dad (works same place) ask me how come I never get stopped... ...

You should have never said that out loud.....

 

[cgoder]

What is fuel oil for a furnace? Is the same as red fuel?

 

[The patriot]

Yes.

 

[rrausch]

I'm surprised some enterprising tax-dodger hasn't figured out a way to bleach out the red dye or neutralize it. Not that I would do that... honest... I really do pay my taxes. Don't like to, but I do it.