Removed the 370's!

[Strick-9]

I might be the only person to ever do this, but I removed my almighty Diamond B 370's and put my puny stock 160hp injectors back in.

I've been running the injectors almost a year now. I got them directly from Joe Donnelly, so there is no chance that I don't have the proper ones. The power is nice, but the idle quality is poor. My truck idled extremely rough and was very noisy with the 370's. I was told by a fellow TDR member that my truck sounded as if it had a cam in it!

I got so sick of the noise and rough idling that I am willing to give up power for a smooth quiet engine.

I removed them just last night and have already had four people comment on how quiet my truck is.

-Chris

'94 2500 4x4, auto w/ DTT TC/VB, TC saver, gov. spring kit, modified AFC spring kit, high flow delivery valves, custom fuel plate, jarding 4" exhaust

 

[R.ebel]

Strick-9,

Was wondering if your timing is still stock?

 

[John_P]

Chris:

I really hate to hear that you had
to take out your 370's. But I respect
the fact that you know what is right
for you.

I am not trying to change your mind,
but like "Rebel" I feel something else
must be causing the "rough idle. "

Do you miss not having the "extra
power?" I think for me it would be
like "withdrawl!"

Take care!

--------
John_P

------------------
Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Major Pump Mods(By "Scheid Diesel") 370 Diamond B Injectors, Gov. Spring kit, AFC Spring kit, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit,Psychotty Air Filter, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, BD Pressure Loc, Isspro Gauges, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Strick-9,
Like Rebel said, Is your timing still stock. ? The 370's like advanced timing.

Put your 370's up for sale in the TDR classifieds. They will sell quick.

I am going to try DD Stage III's instead of the 370's. Keith at DD claims they idle smoother, smoke less, and are 10 times more streetable than the 370's. About the same HP increase. With your 20% discount as a TDR member, you can get them for around $480. From what I have read here in the forums, DD's second generation injectors don't have the big time smoke problem the earlier ones had. In other words, the injectors you get today from DD smoke alot less than ones bought 2 years ago, with no loss in power. This is just an observation. It may not be factual. #ad


Joe D recently gave the green light on extrude honed injectors. After he tried a set he said they idled smoother and smoked less the his 370's.

Go easy on the truck. You are smashing alot more fuel thru those little injectors than they were really designed to have. #ad




[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 04-14-2001). ]

 

[Strick-9]

Thanks for the tips guys. Yes, my timing is still stock.

Advancing the timing will increase cylinder pressures and increase the rate of pressure change in the cylinder causing louder "knocking. "

I first thought I had something else wrong too. I recently checked my fuel pressure and got 27psi at idle and 37psi WOT after the filter.

I didn't want to believe the 370's were causing the rough running, but as soon as I changed them out, the truck runs smooth again. I don't see how anything else could be the problem.

My truck is a '94. Remember that my pump is not as powerful as 215hp motors. I feel my injection pump is not capable of fueling these babies properly.

I recall Ted Jannetty stating long ago that he could never get a 160hp motor to fuel the 370's to his liking. I think I am experiencing the same problems he did. Funny that at the time, I blew him off thinking I would put up with low speed rough running for more power. My how times do change. #ad


My dad has a '97 5-speed that I use as a test truck. I believe I will install the 370's in that truck and take his 215's and compare the two.

I would love to get the power back, but it's not worth the trade off for me.

-Chris

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Your truck is like mine Strick-9. We have the smaller pumps. #ad
This probably had alot to do with the engine not liking the 370's.

I may find out I have the same problem with a 175 HP pump.

 

[Strick-9]

Hemi,

You're quick. You snuck in while I was typing my response.

I am planning on calling Diesel Dynamics in the near future. From what I've read, they understand the principles of injection better than most anyone else.

I'm not planning on selling the 370's just yet. I mainly took them out because it was the only stone left unturned in my quest for a smoother engine. Now that I know what was causing the problem, I can now find a solution. DD may be the answer. If so, I would like to do a side by side comparison of the two.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[Koa Man]

Hemi Dart,
A 175 hp pump should handle the 370s just fine, the 180 hp pumps do and both pumps are very similar. Joe D tested the 370s on a 175 hp pump and it ran fine. The 370s also put out about 8 more hp than DD3's. The 370's are very streetable to me and I still am running the stock timing. I intend to bump it up but don't have the tools and I want to find a shop here that I trust to do it right.

 

[R.ebel]

Strick-9,
With the delivery valves you should have ample fuel for the 370's. What is your idle speed set at?

I've got 370's and after BD massaged (govenor problems) my injector pump, my truck will purr like a kitten at idle or ROAR like a lion when wanted... excellent driveability.

------------------
1997 2500 SLT 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pacbrake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce,K&N,Isspro,BD 300 HP pump, Jardine 4", 370's and 16cm housing.

 

[ramman]

I also removed my 370's today becuse of very bad smoke and bad stumble when cold and bad mpg and loaping clutch engagement,I put my Jessup Specials back in and above items are in test and results are positive at this point,Smoke seems to be a true byproduct of TORQUE. Ramman



[This message has been edited by ramman (edited 04-15-2001). ]

 

[Strick-9]

Rebel,

My idle speed is below 1000 and above the next lowest mark by about one needle thickness. I don't know if that mark is 750 or 666 RPM.

I've played with idle speed. It doesn't help. Under light loads and low speeds (<1300 RPM) the truck REALLY cackles.

I've also adjusted governor spring preload. That didn't help either.

I was talking it over with a friend today and we got to thinking about the frequency of the knocks. It really hammers at idle at about 5-7 knocks per second. That is once every two revoluations or once per injection cycle.

That leads me to believe it is a bad injector. I will try to find an injection shop to test them out.

Thanks for all the helpful tips.

-Chris

 

[mikepvg]

Chris
I noticed your getting excellent fuel psi #'s, (27psi at idle and 37psi WOT after the filter) where as others w/ 94's are only getting 22-25 @ idle & WOT.

Is that the original lift pump your using?
If not, what were you getting that prompted you to replaced it?
Thanks
Mike
#ad


------------------
94 2500HD 5sp 4. 10LSD 4X4 RWAL w/GearVendor OD, K&N Oval w/ Pre-Filter, Straight Exhaust, Geno's Fumotovalve, AW-Direct Idle Controller, DiPricol Boost/Pyro/Fuel, Mag-Hytec Rear, 124K miles. Halon Protected, NRA Member. V1.

[This message has been edited by mikepvg (edited 04-18-2001). ]

 

[Strick-9]

Mikepvg,

My fuel delivery system is completely stock. I too was surprised at the numbers. I kind of hoped that the fuel pressure was low and increasing it would cure the roughness, but no such luck.

I should add an update to this post. When I initially took out the 370's my truck was noticeably quieter, it was also a complete dog off the line. I had my injector pump set up to run the 370's with little to no smoke. With the stock injectors and the same AFC housing adjustments the truck was dangerously slow. I nearly got rearended pulling out in front of people. I increased the no load fueling on the back of the AFC housing and spent the past two days adjusting governor springs.

The noise is back. I have put my stock plate back in the original position and it still doesn't help the noise.

I went from running 92mph in the 1/4 mile at about 380 rear wheel horsepower to running 71 mph @ 170 horsepower.

I can't blame the 370's entirely for the noise because I still have the noise w/o them. It seems to be related to the amount of fueling at idle because the no load adjustment and the governor spring preload plays a large roll.

-Chris

'94 2500 4x4 auto w/ DTT TC/VB, TC saver, stock motor except gov. spring kit, high flow delivery valves and jardine 4" exhaust.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Strick-9
I wonder if your pump does not like the new delivery valves?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I know a fellow who completely fixed those problems with his 94 automatic. He put on a new 215 hp injection pump. Being conservative #ad
we felt around 400 hp would be enough with the HX40 on the other side of the engine #ad


You might be having a problem with a barrel of your pump. Crack loose one injection line at a time like taking off a spark plug wire on a gasser; see which cylinder is weak. Be very careful not to let any fuel spray onto you as under high pressure it can be injected under the skin and cause poisoning.

 

[Strick-9]

Thanks for the response Joe.

I'll check that tomorrow.

Before I decided to install a governor spring kit and delivery valves, I talked to Piers about a BD pump replacement. He told me my core would be no good to him because of the size (160 hp). I was quoted something like $2200. That is when I decided to go with delivery valves and a governor spring kit. #ad


-Chris

 

[EZ94]

Question: Is the pump on a '94 auto (160 hp) the same internally as the pump on a '94 5 speed (175 hp)? I thought they were the same but now I'm beginning to wonder...
If you're SURE of the answer, please let me know and TIA for any help.

------------------
'94 SLT 2WD, 5 Spd. , TST #6(250/635), 215 HP Injectors, Calibrated Pump, 14. 5 cm2 Turbo, ATS Exhaust Manifold, 3. 54, all Synthetics, By-Pass Filtration, EGT & Boost Gauges, Psychotty Air System, 4 " exhaust, BD Exhaust Brake, Horton Fan, Prime-Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Homeless Cat, Air Lifts, Rancho RS9000's, PIAA's, 255x85Rx16's and copious amounts of 12v Pride.

 

[ramman]

FYI, After removeing the 370's and putting my Jessup specials back in I,m happy to report that the truck starts good at 30 degrees,doesn't smoke up a city block on cold start and the eratic idle at clutch engagement is gone,The power is near the same level,I'm sure the torque is some less but the trucks runs great and I'm happy.

 

[LaserBob]

Hey ramman,

What are Jessup specials? I thought that I read most of what is here on the TDR, but that name is new to me. Thanks, Bob Berends

------------------
95 2500 auto reg cab TST # 12 (a friend had this one extra)for now. (slid Fwd 4/15/01 no test yet) Wastegate gets No signal. 136K,Just installed DTT VB & Convertor,(2/22/01)WOW! Bob Berends

 

[ramman]

They are from a tuner in North vernon In,that works for Cummins they are his own injectors,not sure of their origin but there have been several trucks around here that he worked on,my brother in law had a 97 that has hauled farm equipment from Ill. and Ind. and after driveing it I had to have a ram for my self and with all the talk of 370's I thought I needed them too,but they didn't satisfy my needs but others love them . If ya need more info on Mr. Jessup drop an email for more details he's a great and honest guy.